Everyone,

I'm in need of a pair of binoculars. I've got about $500 to spend (no more than that), and I've been pulling my hair out at the choices. I want 10x42's, and there seem to be a myriad of choices. Can anyone relay any information that may aid my decision on one of the following pairs? I plan on heading to the local Cabela's store to check them out, but I'll probably buy them somewhere else. Nobody seems to have the selection they have, so it makes comparing easy. My choices so far are:

1. Nikon Monarch ATB
2. Leupold Pinnacle (these are already behind the 8 ball because of their smaller FOV)
3. Pentax DCF WP 2
4. Steiner Merlin
5. Minox
6. Zeiss Conquest (10x30's in this case)

I'm open to other suggestions in the category, as long as they fit the price and size requirements. The Steiner Merlin's have peaked my interest, as they seem to be a good buy for the $$. Also, I've heard many good things about the Pentax and Minox brands, though I would've never guessed it. Any assistance will be helpful! Many thanks in advance!

I have some minox 8.5X52s. id looked through quite a lot of binos and chose them, i never looked through leicas or high end swaros but, in my eyes the picture was so much better through minox thab zeiss, ahead of leupolds. cant remember what others i compared them to but they were the brightest in my eyes. ive never regretted buying them and they are very bright and dawn and dusk. brighter than my VX3 40mm scope on 4.5power by a long shot!

Thanks for the replies, fellas. Paul, my dad has a pair of EL's, and if I had the $$ for them this conversation wouldn't have even started! I'd never even heard of Minox before beginning this search, but the more I read, the more I learn they may be a pretty damn good choice. We'll see where it goes.

KK, thanks for the link. Very informative. Every similar thread I searched for on this site was a couple of years old, so maybe it's time to have an update. Keep the opinions coming!

Clayman---You could probably go to garage sales forever and possibly not find a pair of Bausch & Lomb Rochester New York made binoculars. But you can go to EBay and find them. There are bunches of WW2 7x50. While these are very good optically,Mac truck tough,they are bulky and heavy. Find a pair of Zephyr weights. These pop up fairly frequently in 7x35--which is a good size. You'll have more than half your money left and you wont beat them. The very high dollar binos might equal---but they won't beat them. Newer B&L arent in same catagory but those made in USA were the standard others tried to match.

out of your list i'd go for minox, but you're doing the right thing to go & look through a bunch. I find that looking at a brick wall works really well. if you can see the mud joints clearly without feeling eyepull them would be the ones

I have 2 pair of the Pentax DCF WP. I wear eyeglasses and the Pentax has the longest eye relief that I could find. They are clear,sharp and have worked very well for me. I have 2 pair because for my first trip to Africa, my wife needed good binos so I was gracious enough to let her use the ones I normally used. Then of course I had to buy a new pair.

I just checked EBAY and there about 3 pairs of Rochester NY made Zephyrs in 7x35---keep in mind a pair of 7x's will be much easier to hold steady and to locate what you want to see than a pair of 10x's.

Go to samplelist.com and look at the Kahles 10x42. I have a pair and they are great. Great price also. I have bought a lot of goodies from that site and have been very satisfied.

Wow, the samplelist.com is a pretty decent site! What's the deal with those binos? Show demos or something? Anyway, thanks for the assistance. The Kahles at $599 are tempting, even though they may be out of my price range. So far, I've seen some mixed reviews for the Steiner Merlin's, and their warranty is only 10 years, which pales in comparison to everyone else's. I'll be 27 on Saturday, so I've got a long time ahead of me with them! They may not be the last pair I ever buy, but I'll probably still have them down the road.

I don't wear glasses (occasionally sunglasses when hunting), so that doesn't really play into things. I also don't have a problem holding 10x steady, and I'd like the extra magnification. So far, I think I need to check out the Nikons and Pentax WP's.

PS - Carpetman, I know what you mean when you talk about how things used to be made. I'm in the consumer electronics industry, and I've got a 7-year old Sony DVD player that weighs 33lbs and destroys most everything on the market today. They still command a premium on the used market, and they just don't make 'em like that anymore! I don't think I'll be using eBay for anything anymore because of their staunch opposition to guns in general. I'll keep looking, and thanks for the suggestion.

Clayman--I hear you on the EBAY gun policy--but wait--does your dentist sell guns--does your gas station sell em--your plumber-etc etc--why hold it against EBAY and deprive yourself?

Point well taken, BUT I don't try to buy guns from those people. Though, it would be nice to go fill up the car or get my teeth cleaned and check out the new S&W inventory. In this instance, there are so many other places I can purchase an adequate pair of binos that also support hunting and shooting, why would I give the antis the business? Were I looking for the specific pair you've mentioned, sure. I've got lots of choices out there.

While not on your list I have a pair of Burris Signature Selects that I use the hell out of. A while back in Rifle Magazine (I think) they were picked as the best in the $500 price range. I think they are the best for the money and everyone I show them to agrees with me. They also have a lifetime warranty for what it's worth.

Allrighty then. I've narrowed it down to these two choices - and only these two:

1. Nikon Monarch ATB
2. Pentax DCF WP II

They're basically dead-even as far as specifications go, with the Pentax being about 7oz heavier than the Nikons. The Pentax are also about $40 more. Is the extra cash well spent? What say you?

Spend the extra 99 bucks and buy the kahles. You're getting three times the quality for 99 bucks more. Binos aren't the place to skimp and if you can get a set of kahles for that little more money than the cheaper binos then it's a no brainer.

boltman-

To what model Kahles binos are you referring? I looked at them, but they all seemed to be in the $600+ price range. Can you suggest a model number? I'd love to get the best ones I can. Thanks

Well, crap! I went to the local gun store to check out the Monarchs, and they had the Steiner Merlins as well. The Steiners blew the Nikons out of the water. Clarity was slightly better, but brightness shocking. Of course, they should look better considering they cost $200 more. I think I've spoiled myself in this case. I've got really good riflescopes and we've got a Zeiss spotting scope, and looking though anything else is just a let down. So, to amend my last comparison:

Steiner Merlin or Pentax DCF WP II?

I've heard a lot of good things about the Pentax, but they're always qualified with "...for the money." Am I better off spending $100 more to get something in the next class? I'm pulling my hair out over here!

I'll add one more for you to seriously consider in your price range, the Bushnell Elite 8x43. When you go to Cabela's, check these out. These usually run between $7-$900, but, alot of folks are buying them on a closeout deal at various Sportsman's Warehouse locations for $519, and with a $100 rebate brings them down to $419. Everybody that has bought these already is thrilled with them. At that price, nothing, and I mean nothing, will compare to them. They are every bit as sharp, bright and clear as the Kahles that someone suggested.

I had a pair of Simmon's perma focus 10x50s that I bought about 10 years ago. My son's Grandpa has a pair of Baush & Lomb somethings and looking through both of them, the Simmon's seemed to be every bit as bright and clear. They dissapeared a couple of years ago

Last year a buddy showed up with a set of Barska 10-30x(60?). At 10x they are very clear and it's easy to see the small cracks in a rock ledge. The 30x Zoom works fairly well during the day, but near dusk it gets too dark and you have to turn it back to 10x. They seem to be brighter at dusk on 10x then with the naked eye.
I got a pair on sale at Big-5 for about $60. They may not even be in the same category, but I think they are a great binocular and they seem to work better than the ex-father-in-laws B&Ls.
That's my 2 cents worth anyway.

Well, I just placed my order for a pair of Pentax DCF WP II's. They should be here early next week, and I'll give everyone the full report. I decided not to spend the Steiner $$ for a few reasons. One, I'm young and probably shouldn't spend that much on optics at this point in time. Two, if I'm going to spend $500, I'm really in a different class of binos that would include some better offerings. I wanted to stick with the $300-$400 class of optics for this pair, and the Pentax seemed like the best choice.

I'll be panting at the window for the UPS guy to get here. Thanks for the help, everyone!!

Vortex Viper 10x42mm
$490 from Doug at CamerlandNY and if you don't want them you can return them for a refund (minus shipping) within 30 days.

I bought the Nikon ATB from Doug last year, the best Bino's I have had. When I went to Montana last year , my guide had some Leicas and another guide has Swaro's. My next purchase will be one of those, as good as I thought the Nikons were there really was no comparison.

Well, I received my pair of DCF WP II's the other day, and after looking through them in a variety of conditions, I am very impressed! The build quality is excellent, with twist-up eyecups that are very comfortable on the face, a thumb groove in the bottom of each barrel to give you a comfortable place to hold them, and excellent lens covers. The focusing ring operates quickly, too. The optical quality is impressive to say the least. Are they Swaros or Leicas? No, but they didn't cost as much either.

The conditions here have been very overcast and rainy, so I was able to get a true idea of their clarity and light-gathering ability in less than perfect conditions. Even in gloomy, rainy weather, images were crisp, bright, and clear all the way to the edges. I also tried them when I got home from work, so the sun was nearly down. The results were the same. It cleared up to sunny conditions today, and the images just get better and better when there's additional light. I'll have to wait a few weeks before using them for deer here in PA, but I can't wait. I guess the bottom line is, if you don't want to spend a lot of $$ on binos, but still want the best value - for me the DCF WP II's are the champ. I compared all the similarly-priced units, and these beat them all. Better than the Monarch ATB's, and certainly better than any inexpensive of the Leupold products. Just my $.02. Thanks for the help, everyone.

quote:

I compared all the similarly-priced units, and these beat them all.

I doubt it.
While you may feel comfortable with your purchase, if made from Cabelas you spent too much and from a company with less than stellar customer service with optics. The binoculars you may have spent $410 for can be obtained from any number of sources for $360. Further, from Eagle Optics you could have gotten a 30-day money back guarantee so if you didn't like them you could have sent them back within 30-days for a full purchase price refund (minus shipping). In addition, the Eagle Optics Ranger SRT 10x42mm ($320) is comparable to the Pentax DCF WP II, is less expensive, comes with a better warranty and from a company well-known for its superb customer service. Finally, you could have gotten a better binoculars from Eagle Optics or Doug (same excellent warranty and service) in the Vortex Fury 10x42mm for the same $360 the Pentax should have cost you. While the Pentax will serve you well, I wish I could have helped you make a better choice in the item and vendor. Hopefully you had a chance to explore your options fully with Doug at CameralandNY before purchasing.

quote:

Originally posted by jackfish:
I doubt it.
While you may feel comfortable with your purchase, if made from Cabelas you spent too much and from a company with less than stellar customer service with optics. The binoculars you may have spent $410 for can be obtained from any number of sources for $360. Further, from Eagle Optics you could have gotten a 30-day money back guarantee so if you didn't like them you could have sent them back within 30-days for a full purchase price refund (minus shipping). In addition, the Eagle Optics Ranger SRT 10x42mm ($320) is comparable to the Pentax DCF WP II, is less expensive, comes with a better warranty and from a company well-known for its superb customer service. Finally, you could have gotten a better binoculars from Eagle Optics or Doug (same excellent warranty and service) in the Vortex Fury 10x42mm for the same $360 the Pentax should have cost you. While the Pentax will serve you well, I wish I could have helped you make a better choice in the item and vendor. Hopefully you had a chance to explore your options fully with Doug at CameralandNY before purchasing.

No, I didn't buy them from Cabela's. I just went there to compare them all because they're the only store in the area that have a selection wide enough for me to compare. I actually purchased them from Midway, where normal price is $359.99. In this instance, my birthday afforded me special sale pricing of $338, and I had an additional $15 off coupon, so I really ended up paying $323 for them. This puts them into a more favorable price point than many of the competitors, they have a lifetime warranty, and, as I mused earlier, IMO had better optical quality than the rest.

Once again, I thank everyone for their suggestions, but I could only buy one pair of binoculars, and the Pentax won out in my eyes (pun intended). Jackfish, believe me when I tell you I consider myself the consummate bargain shopper for things of this nature. I explored Cameraland's and SWFA's pricing, and the discounts I got from Midway gave them the victory. Midway also has a 30-day return policy, though I don't think I'll be needing that anytime soon.

Sounds like you did very well, as many differences are playing at the margins anyways. Particularly when different eyes are involved.

Another thing I take into consideration is that when you drop an Eagle Optics or Vortex binoculars and they bounce off a rock wrecking them, they have an unlimited, unconditional repair or replacement warranty at no charge, no matter the cause — for the life of the binocular. This is a fully transferable warranty even if the original owner is not the person sending the binocular in for repair.

The Pentax Limited Lifetime and "Worry-Free" Warranties are limited to the original purchaser and are weak compared to the Eagle Optics and Vortex unlimited, unconditional warranties. This is additional value that goes beyond just the performance of the product.

Congratulations, Clayman, on your purchase! I think you did great and you'll enjoy your Pentax DCF WP II's. I have one myself and have always found it to be an excellent performer and reliable tool.

Regarding Cabela's, although they are caught with their pants down with respect to the price on this particular product, I've bought a lot of stuff from them and never found them to be anything but 100% accommodating if I had a problem. One thing I’ll say for them is that as a company they’re true hunters, founded by true hunters. This forum uses the phrase, “one of us.†Of the retailers discussed herein, Cabela’s and Midway fall into that category; Eagle does not.

quote:

Originally posted by Clayman:
Allrighty then. I've narrowed it down to these two choices - and only these two:

1. Nikon Monarch ATB
2. Pentax DCF WP II

They're basically dead-even as far as specifications go, with the Pentax being about 7oz heavier than the Nikons. The Pentax are also about $40 more. Is the extra cash well spent? What say you?

Both are good choices and in my opinion better bang for the buck than the Kahles or Steiner. I do lean towards the Pentax.

quote:

Originally posted by Refrax:
...This forum uses the phrase, “one of us.†Of the retailers discussed herein, Cabela’s and Midway fall into that category; Eagle does not.

While Eagle Optics founders may not be hunters, they are birders, they have hunters on staff and have built a reputation of full service to all, and any hunter who has stopped into their store or who has talked to their staff knows this to be true.

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=3362

My pair of minox had a loose main hinge, it wasnt too bad. got in touch with minox and they are sending me a brand new pair as we speak. verry happy with that!

Also someone tested there minox 8.5X52 against leica trinovids 10X42 i believe they were. I was talking to the guy he bought them off and he said he got a phone call saying "i think there is something wrong with me leicas! my minox just creamed them!!" apparently His minox are sooo much better in twilight than his leicas!. the shop owner even let another customer take home a pair of leica geovids and some minox 8.5X52, the customer came back and said he would take the minox! and who wouldnt they are better in the low light and are half the price.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul from nz:
My pair of minox had a loose main hinge, it wasnt too bad. got in touch with minox and they are sending me a brand new pair as we speak. verry happy with that!

Also someone tested there minox 8.5X52 against leica trinovids 10X42 i believe they were. I was talking to the guy he bought them off and he said he got a phone call saying "i think there is something wrong with me leicas! my minox just creamed them!!" apparently His minox are sooo much better in twilight than his leicas!. the shop owner even let another customer take home a pair of leica geovids and some minox 8.5X52, the customer came back and said he would take the minox! and who wouldnt they are better in the low light and are half the price.

Of course an 8.5x52mm would seem to be better in twilight than a 10x42mm. That is a 6.1mm exit pupil and 21 twilight factor compared to a 4.2mm exit pupil and 20.5 twilight factor. If the pupil of your eye gets larger than 4.2mm at twilight the 8.5x52mm is going to seem brighter.