I have a Leupold VXI 2-7 with the regular duplex reticle. last season I had a hard time seing the crosshairs on my deer and was thinking of going to the German #1 or the heavy duplex. Which would you choose? I'm leaning towards the German#1. please do not recomend the german#4 cause I really don't like that reticle.

First of all I'd get better glass, that, along with larger objectives and higher mags will allow better reticle placement in low light conditions. I like the 2-7x but if I was going to use a moderately priced scope in low light, I'd go to the 3-9x40 Leupie.

Sans that, of the less than optimal, IMO, choices you leave, I'd take the Heavy Duplex, which I don't like much but would consider it nearly a tie with the post of the German #1. I like the #4 better than either of the above but that's my choice, and the heavy part or the reticles need to be close enough together to be useful by themselves, and I do shoot quite a bit in low or very low (moonlight) situations.

Best, not including starlight type scopes, is some kind of illuminated reticle or red dot but must have adjustable light intensity.

I take it you lost your reticle in low light - and that is why you are considering a change of reticle??

Low light performance of a scope is primarily a matter of still being able to see your reticle, as that is normally the first to go when light fades. Naturally, it is also possible you can't see your target, in which case you need a scope better suited to low light hunting - larger objective lens, etc, but normally the reticle is the first to go.

When we talk about non-illuminated reticles, the German #1 is the classic low light proposition, and for that purpose it is not bad at all. However, like all other reticles it comes with in-built compromises. It is NOT a reticle for accuracy work, simply due to the difficulty in placing the point of the bottom post identically on the target every time. A cross hair is considerably better if this is the task at hand. But the heavy posts of the #1 show up as well as any (unlit) reticle in low light.

I personally move my reticle compromise a bit in the direction of accuracy shooting and still maintain good low light performance by using a German #4. The crosshairs allow accurate shooting, but the heavy posts still give low light performance. But I guess you don't like this reticle, so power to you.

The heavy Leupold Duplex is not really a low light reticle, IMHO. Leupold comes from a country where true low light shooting is not the norm (due to legal shooting hours etc.). When they found they had made their regular Duplex way too thin for low light work, they figured more of a good thing would fix the issue. Well, BS. They made the outer posts too thin for true low light use, and made the inner cross hairs too thick for accuracy work. Worst of both worlds. What you really want, are THICK outers and THIN inners. Although not a true low light reticle (in the sense of a German #1 or #4) the Zeiss Z-Plex is a superior design compared to the Heavy Leupold Duplex - heavy outers, thin inners....

That does not mean the Heavy Leupold Duplex is useless, it is just not a true low light reticle. But it is a very fast reticle to pick up in good to slightly poor light.

These days, if low light performance is really of essence, an illuminated reticle is often chosen. If you do go this route, make sure you get a reticle, which will be lit as little as possible (not look like a Christmas tree) and where you are able to adjust illumination intensity down as low as you can possibly get it. Otherwise, the illuminated reticle is more likely to blind than help you. It is also nice to have a switch system that allows you to choose your illumination level in advance, so you don't have to adjust to the right intensity when your quarry shows up. Some people like to use illumination during daytime (e.g. for driven shooting) and then you need higher intensity.

Myself, if I want an illuminated reticle, I want it combined with a reticle I can also use should my batteries inadvertently run out. So I like to combine with reticles like #4 or #8.

Good luck.

- mike

The Leupold heavy duplex is a good dangerous game or short range reticle.

It's very easy to use in decent light at short range, but it blocks out a lot of target at anything much beyond 100 yards or so and is not suitable for fine work.

Apart from illuminated reticles, which are obviously designed for use in low light, I think that reticle visibility in low light is more a function of glass than reticle.

well, I would like one of those trijicons, but I just cant afford one. yeah, it was close to dusk near the end of shooting hours and my deer was 15 yards away. i really couldn't see the crosshairs at all

I, too, am a German No. 4 fan.....

You've gotten some good advice so far, but I'll add mine.

First, upgrade the quality of your glass. From where you're at now, that will make more difference than anything.

Second, of the choices you presented, I'd pick the No. 1. If you like the duplex type reticle, also look at a No. 8. Four heavy posts but more space between them than the traditional heavy duplex.

LWD

I'm no loopy fan, but I have their heavy duplex on a hunting rifle and it works perfectly. last deer I shot with it was at twilight, I never had to give a thought to the reticle.

I do a lot of feral hog shooting at feeders illuminated with the "landscape lights" like you might find at Home Depot or WM. Just sent my 3-9X40 in to have the heavy duplex installed, just for this purpose. My hide is about 60-65 yds from the feeder, and I need just a bit more of a substantive reticle to be able to see it on moonless nights.

Guess I'll just have to wait and see how it works out.

quote:

Originally posted by gohip2000:
well, I would like one of those trijicons, but I just cant afford one. yeah, it was close to dusk near the end of shooting hours and my deer was 15 yards away. i really couldn't see the crosshairs at all

gohip:

I'm going to tell you what I told my son, and various other new hog hunters......advice which would also work for your deer......if the animal is reasonably close, and it is too dark (I'm assuming legality here, which in Texas on hogs is not a problem) to see your crosshairs, then put the part of the animal you want to shoot in the middle of the scope and shoot. At 15 yards you should EASILY be able to hold you shots inside 4 inches (which means no more than 2 inches from you point of aim) with NO crosshairs in a scope. In short, you put yourself in the position of wanting perfect placement, when adequate placement would have put meat on the ground. Try it, it works. Good luck hunting this year.

I like the heavy duplex for all shooting.

Gohip2000,

I would suggest going with what you're already leaning towards. I use the German No 1 in a couple of leupold scopes and love it. Don't be discouraged by those that claim it is not good for accuracy work. It is actually the only reticle where your point of aim is not obscured by the reticle. Your point of aim simply sits upon the post like a front sight. Even a crosshair actually covers your point of aim and depending on the magnification, this may be bothersome for target work or not. In many ways, a German no 1 at 30x power in the second focal plane would be a great target scope.

The major limitation with this is that the German no 1 will cause problems with trying to hold over on small distant targets as they will be obscured (target obscured but point of aim above animal's back not obscured). I almost always shoot at less than 250 yards so this is a non issue for me.

Basically, as long as your not having to aim above the target, the No 1 in the second focal plane is not much of a compromise. You won't find a non-illuminated reticle that is easier to use in poor light or is faster to get on target in my opinion.

Wes

quote:

Originally posted by gohip2000:
well, I would like one of those trijicons, but I just cant afford one. yeah, it was close to dusk near the end of shooting hours and my deer was 15 yards away. i really couldn't see the crosshairs at all

Fifteen yards?
Hell, just mount the gun and shoot it like a shotgun. At that distance you don't need any kind of sight at all. I shot a possum out of a tree just the other night at probably thirty yards that way. That's how I shoot aspirins out of the air for free beers.

My low light, long distance scope is a Eagle Eye 6-24 x 56 illuminated mil-dot. Pretty good optics and an adjustable intensity dial. I've shot coyotes at 400 plus yards when others couldn't even make out the coyote in their scopes.

quote:

Originally posted by gohip2000:
I have a Leupold VXI 2-7 with the regular duplex reticle. last season I had a hard time seing the crosshairs on my deer and was thinking of going to the German #1 or the heavy duplex. Which would you choose? I'm leaning towards the German#1. please do not recomend the german#4 cause I really don't like that reticle.

I suspect that your problem might be an improperly focused scope rather than a crosshair that is too fine. Get out the little booklet that came with your Leupold and read the section on focusing the crosshair.

Improperly focused scopes are the source of innumerable tales of "Why, my Chinese BSA is a lot clearer than Fred's expensive You-ro-pean Zeiswarvski". Well, I guess so if Fred's scope is focused for his 20-60 astigmatic right eye.

I always get the heavy duplex. It can cover more at long distance however, you see it better in low light.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

Originally posted by gohip2000:
I have a Leupold VXI 2-7 with the regular duplex reticle. last season I had a hard time seing the crosshairs on my deer and was thinking of going to the German #1 or the heavy duplex. Which would you choose? I'm leaning towards the German#1. please do not recomend the german#4 cause I really don't like that reticle.

I suspect that your problem might be an improperly focused scope rather than a crosshair that is too fine. Get out the little booklet that came with your Leupold and read the section on focusing the crosshair.

Improperly focused scopes are the source of innumerable tales of "Why, my Chinese BSA is a lot clearer than Fred's expensive You-ro-pean Zeiswarvski". Well, I guess so if Fred's scope is focused for his 20-60 astigmatic right eye.

How true.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

Originally posted by gohip2000:
I have a Leupold VXI 2-7 with the regular duplex reticle. last season I had a hard time seing the crosshairs on my deer and was thinking of going to the German #1 or the heavy duplex. Which would you choose? I'm leaning towards the German#1. please do not recomend the german#4 cause I really don't like that reticle.

I suspect that your problem might be an improperly focused scope rather than a crosshair that is too fine. Get out the little booklet that came with your Leupold and read the section on focusing the crosshair.

Improperly focused scopes are the source of innumerable tales of "Why, my Chinese BSA is a lot clearer than Fred's expensive You-ro-pean Zeiswarvski". Well, I guess so if Fred's scope is focused for his 20-60 astigmatic right eye.

I'm looking for scopes with more threads for the ocular lens......mine are starting to run out.......

quote:

I suspect that your problem might be an improperly focused scope rather than a crosshair that is too fine. Get out the little booklet that came with your Leupold and read the section on focusing the crosshair.

I forgot to mention: When you go to read the little booklet, if you have to have a magnifying glass, then forget it and go ahead and get the extra heavy crosshair.

Well, I went on Ebay and got the Trijicon 3-9 red triangle new for about $450. I'm trying to sell it for more, so I can buy one with an amber or green triangle. the red shows up fine, but haven't been able to compare it to the other two colors. I'd love to find a shop that I can go into and compare the different colors in person, but no place seems to have these scopes and if they do, it's the crosshairs with the tiny dot in the middle.

So, anyone that has been able to compare the different colors, I'd love to hear which ones you liked best.
The red shows up fine, but i can't help but wonder and wonder if the amber or green would contrast better

quote:

I'd love to find a shop that I can go into and compare the different colors in person,

ya that's the best, but then you have to buy it there too.

Try a illuminated dot. Best for running game and less to concentrate on while aiming. Just put the dot on the target. The size of the dot is your choice.
I will be in heaven if Leupold ever offers their Leupold dot in a illuminated offering.

EZ