I heard the toenails first. Dawson's feet scrabbling on the wood floor, digging for traction that wasn't there. Audrey came up from behind my office chair, woofing and staring at me very intently, one ear cocked towards the window. Intent gave way to pained shrieks as she headed through the office door and towards the door to my house. It never ceases to amaze me just how much noise two Tollers can make when they are motivated.

Then I heard it. The deep rumble of a FedEx truck. Ooooooooooooooooh Yeah!

I heard my Boss on the phone "What the HELL is that?" - "FedEx truck, gotta go Boss. Things get ugly from here." I hung up the phone. Damn the dogs...I was the only thing about to get ugly!

BOX BOX BOX BOX!!! And there it was, with a little "C-L" on the return shipping label. Oh yeah, I know what I got!

But before I do, here are my pups! For those who have never heard of a Toller before...LOVE my pups.



Ok, ok, so I'm salivating a bit. Gotta slow down. Take my time. Think about this. Beer. Gotta have Beer. Wifey bought me a special beer. Stone Brewery. Double Bastard. Churchkey out, beer in. That's good stuff. Now, where's my knife?

Right, get the box open, pull out the lovely silver Leica Box. It's a nice box really. Oh, wow, Doug sent me a T-Shirt and a Hat... and some coffee! But... I could wax poetically about a box, but why why? Can't see through a box. Gotta get what's in it.

And my first reaction: "Holy Sh!t! It's HUGE!" Literally, that was my first reaction. The ocular lens is HUGE. I mean, biggest I've seen on any rifle scope. I really had my concerns about the size of it - let me state: the rifle bolt on my .375 H&H Montana 1999 clears with about 3/8". No closeups yet, but it clears. On the other hand, I do have thin hands and nimble fingers so working the bolt isn't a problem. If you are thick of thumb, you're on your own...



Scopes, listed in order, left to right:

Zeiss Conquest 1.8-5.5x38
Leica 2.5-10x42
Zeiss Diavari - Victory 2.5-10x42 (my prize scope to date)
Burris Euro-D 3-10x40 e-Dot #4p3
Leupold FX-III 6x42
Leupold VX-III 1.5-5x20



Ok, second thought time. You know, it really isn't that big. The ocular lens IS huge, but really, that's about it. The Leica adjustment points really don't look out of place at all. In fact, compared to the Leupold 1.5x it looks very, well, normal. The Objective lens is quite normal, even 30mm body doesn't look out of place. It is, strangely, well balanced. The ocular lens balances against the objective lens well.

I'm actually quite surprised at that.



Compared to the VX-III 1.5-5x20...



Compared in size to the 6x42... So here's the interesting thing: the ocular lens is, well, actually not that big. The rear portion is actually somewhat normal - it's the FRONT half of the ocular that's so much bigger. There's no denying that it's physically bigger, but really, it's not quite that big.





Ok, Rifle time, back to front:

1. Montana 1999, 20" bbl, .375 H&H.
2. Ruger #1, 22" bbl.
3. Winchester Pre-64 70, 26" bbl.



Ummmm, yeah. So some of you may have noticed that there are two scopes with a red-dot logo of Leica on them. Yeah, sue me. I bought two. Couldn't help myself. The moment I saw the ad, I immediately took inventory of what I could live without...and what I could get away with. I had an email out as soon as I could. Doug at CameraLand was kind enough to put aside a #4 and a Plex reticle...

But you see, I just can't do with a Plex...it's just too normal...

The Montana '99 wears a German #1.

The Ruger No. 1 wears a #4...

More to follow...

Congratulations on your beautiful new scopes. It's a great feeling to finally recieve a new optic.

Leica is one heck of a great optics vendor. I was fortunate enought to get a 14x variable when Loopy was helping them with assembly at one point.

For comparison purposes I offer this photo of the 1.8-10x37 SN-3 Compact. Trick here is to make the scopes as small as possible. 95 click knob gets to 800 plus in 1 rotation. Reticle and knobs in Mil scale.

Never mind the scope, your Tollers are seriously nice. Beautiful dogs.

If it did not have a Leica logo I would swear it was from Docter Optic. Hmmmmmmm???????

please post pics of the reticles!! ALSO does the LEICA beat the diavari?

you are missing a schmidt & Bender summit in your collection

quote:

Originally posted by PATRIOT76:
you are missing a schmidt & Bender summit in your collection

Actually, I need a rifle to put one on!

DETAILS !!!??!? how does it compare to the zeiss?

Well now, how's this for a testing lab? Rifle on the cutting board, two on the floor, dishes in the sink. Yep, a regular lab environment!



First up: Ziess Victory / Diavari 2.5-10x42 with a #8 reticle in the first focal plane. This means the reticle grows with power. Actually, it means something else, but that's my lay-man interpretation.

I intentionally scoped the reticle against a bunch of palm fronds. Notice how the Reticle detail vanishes at 2.5 power.

By the way, do you like my wife's taste in colors? The red wall is actually seven different layers of color...It's really magnificent in person.




Zoom it in however and it gets quite bold. I gotta say, I am rather fond of that design. At 300 yards that reticle is fast and easy to pick up. Big and bold...at 100 yards the center reticle subtends .25". Not bad!



Next up, Leica 2.5-10x42 #4 reticle in the second focal plane. In other words, it stays the same size regardless of power.

The #4 reticle is a superb reticle, but this one seems to be just a bit fine. I'd REALLY have loved it if the outer bars were thicker - much thicker actually. Imagine how awesome they'd be if they were as thick as the #8 at maximum power...

Regardless, the glass is nothing short of outstanding.



A better look at the reticle. Pardon the waviness...I'm not the best photographer in the world!



Final Reticle. Leica 2.5-10x42 German #1. Do you really need an explanation? What I can't tell is just how BIG that reticle is in the real world. Up close in the eyebox on my .375 H&H, that reticle is about twice or three times as fat looking as it is in the picture. It looks thin in the pic - it's not.

It's fat. It's fast.

I just can't say anything more.



Actually, I can. I had absolutely no problems keying in on the point of the center post. I shot four consecutive 1"-1.25" groups at 100 yards with my .375. Given that the rifle is pretty much a 1" gun, I call that "par for the course". The point is razor sharp and fine accuracy is more than possible.



Side note: it's about 30 feet to the back wall I'm focused on.

Ok, time for some random thoughts.

1. Looks: The Diavari is more balanced. They weight within an ounce of each other however the Diavari is just that much better looking.

2. The Zeiss eyebox width/depth is superb overall but it is lacking in the eye-relief category. Zeiss claim 3.5" while the Leica claim 4" of eye relief. I have no reason to doubt it: I could not use the Zeiss on a Ruger #1 without really stretching out over the stock. The Leica #4 now resides on the Ruger. The Leica definitely has eye relief over the Zeiss.

3. Color and clarity. The Zeiss has a slightly brighter, whiter picture. The Leica resolves more datum. It really is that simple. I have not done any formal line measurements or testing - I'm not an eye doctor. I just don't have those items at hand. But staring at a target at 100 yards I could resolve bullet holes (7mm) just a bit more clearly. The Diavari is no slouch, the Leica just resolves more datum. All I can say is that for the first time I just didn't bother to break out the spotting scope at all. And, out to 200 yards, I seriously don't think I will need to at all.

4. First focal plane, second focal plane. Oh hell, I don't know. I'm really fond of both. Given a choice, I think I'd pick FFP for the #4 and #8 reticles. It's superb. FFP doesn't work on the #1 reticle though - it's too big. I really do like the #8 FFP Reticle on my .300 H&H.

Scopes and rifle choices.

My Montana 1999 wears the Leica #1. It's big, it's fast. I haven't hunted Buff yet, but I wouldn't hesitate to use it. That big black reticle just shows up in low light conditions and on dark targets. This rifle is going with me to Texas in four days. I'm convinced that deer need 300 gr. Partitions over 75 gr. of H4350...

The Leica #4 now sits on a Ruger #1 7x57. It's overkill. But a No. 1 deserves a #4 reticle...In my perfect world I'd want a 2.5-8x32 with a #4 ret on the No. 1... with the Leica name on the side.

The Zeiss #8 sits atop a Pre-64 Model 70 in .300 H&H. Today, of all the rifles I own, I think this rifle calls to me the most. True, I just bought it. But I bought it on a C&R. It's beat up, dinged, it's nearly 60 years old and groups 3/4" with 180 gr. Hornady IL's and 70gr. of H4381sc. If'n I'm shooting anything of 200+ yard distances, this is it. My go-to rifle. For today.

Each rifle has a scope. Each scope has a rifle. I just couldn't imagine the Leica #1 on the .300 H&H anymore than the #8 could sit on the .375.

Call me fickle - I can't simply announce a "winner".

I'll post more in a week. I'm driving out to Texas...maybe I'll take both the .300 and the .375 and do some low light comparisons...

Some other side notes:

Leica windage knobs: Are superb. I really love how they put the caps together - a combo of aluminum and rubber. The windage clicks are firm and precise with excellent tactile feel and they also have hash marks on the top and edge of each knob. So, you can spin the turrets if you want, without actually having a turret.

That's kinda useless to me, candidly. I personally have no business taking a shot on game beyond 300 yards anyway. But, if I was shooting something at say, 400 yards and I knew that I had 20" of drop, I could easily spin up 20 clicks on that dial from a hunting position.

more more..... we want more pics, more feedback

Ok, so I'm typing this from my Texas hunting camp.

First, the good news: The Leica has drawn blood!



It's a very nice Texas 6-point. Thick bases and this guy was just as much a "mercy kill" as a trophy for my office. He had been tangled up in fencing of some kind and really cut himself up bad. The top of his skull had exposed bone and both of the skin above each horn had been badly scared. His left eye was deformed.

All of the damage was healing and this guy was smart. He came out after sunset with about 10 minutes of shooting light left at 150 yards. I had the rifle in hand and when I saw antlers chasing a little doe I got him in the scope. At 10x I could easily see the knottiness of the horn bases and 3/4" kicker on the left antler. I backed off to 5x and that big #1 reticle stood out increadibly well and was super easy to get on target.

I put the post just behind the shoulder and squeezed. When I came off recoil he was nowhere to be seen! I thought that perhaps I'd missed him and immediately got out of the blind and ran over to the tall grass. About 45 seconds of searching and the answer was clear: he went STRAIGHT down. Which was a damn good thing because the 300 gr. Nosler Partition from my .375 didn't expand...

Ok, so the reticle is awesome. I really, really like it.

To add to the mix, I spent an evening glassing deep into a face on sunset. If you've ever tried to glass into a sunset you know how hard it is. The Leica showed NO sun flaring and I could readily scan deep into the heavily contrasted valleys under the sunset. I had to quit about 5 minutes after legal light ran out. When the moon came up and the sunset contract was gone, I could go right back to glassing through the scope.

I do not believe I could have been as effective sighting through the scope into a sunset with my Leupold VXIII 2.5-8 scope. I had never considered solar flare and things like that when I tried a scope and I'm hugely impressed with how Leica has controlled this.

Point of note: at no time was the #1 reticle unusable. Even nearly directly into the sun the reticle was great.

Anyway, I have another day and a half to go and hope to give you more info.

Peace!

great feedack, i always test for flare!

the #1 scares me but it is intriguing....

how is the #4?

if you could keep one scope out of the the 2 leics'a or the zeiss 2.5-10x42, whic hwould it be and why?

does the leica have a bigger sight picture tha nthe zeiss do to the larger eyepiece?

is it clear edge to edge on all powers?

does the reticle change colors in backlight?

thx

more more more

Thanks for the reminder!


Posted 02 December 2010 20:01 Hide Post
great feedack, i always test for flare!

the #1 scares me but it is intriguing....

how is the #4? I'd like it more if the fat parts of the #4 reticle were fatter. They really aren't any fatter than a normal plex width. That's really a personal preference...I like fast aquisition reticles and fat rets aquire faster to my eyes in low light.

if you could keep one scope out of the the 2 leics'a or the zeiss 2.5-10x42, whic hwould it be and why? I have to say, The Leica in #1 reticle. I have to go with the #1. I really, really like that reticle. The more I use it, the more I like it. For hunting purposes it's darn near perfect. About the only thing it doesn't allows you to do is use a plex base as an additional aiming point at, say, 400 yards. But that's a trivial thing since I really don't have any desire to shoot at those distances.

I tell you though, it's really splitting hairs. I could be perfectly happy with any of the three.

does the leica have a bigger sight picture tha nthe zeiss do to the larger eyepiece? Not that I noticed, but I'm not likely to try and measure it either.

is it clear edge to edge on all powers? Yeppers! Unlike the Minox I had (which did exhibit some definite edge blur). The Leica is everything one could ask from a company that makes some of the finest glass anywhere.

does the reticle change colors in backlight? Nope - super black etched reticle. That #1 shows up in the blackest of black nights I was hunting in.

GREAT write up!!!! Looks like Doug will be getting more of my money.

Pretty much a USO and S&B man now but this one deserves a try!!!

I was already thinking of a Leica with a #1 reticle for my new .375 H&H, and now I think i'm sold on it.

Love the Nova Scotia duck tolling retrievers by the way. They are a wonderful breed. I happen to live in Nova Scotia where the breed originates.

I just tried to buy a #1 2.5x10 and they are all sold out. Still have #4 and Plex. Nutz, I wanted a #1 for my 375!!!

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
I just tried to buy a #1 2.5x10 and they are all sold out. Still have #4 and Plex. Nutz, I wanted a #1 for my 375!!!

All I can say is that I have no regrets at all!

Well I went ahead and bought the 2.5x10 Plex. Optics are super but scope is certainly not streamlined to my eye. Its going on a woking gun so no problem. If I had a super slick custom , it would get the Zeiss Victory.

Thanks, Robert- - You da man!! I learned more from this thread than hours (literally) on google...I was leaning toward Leica b/c solid reputation and less $$ than some other good euro-optics. Your reticle info. was extremely informative. I was initially disinclined b/c of their (only) 10-year warranty. My wife sez 10 years is a long time, honey, just buy it! What a woman!