I am wanting some ideas on the use of a mil-dot scope vs. uing a range finder for ranging game in the field. Where I live it is very flat and not much cover so the shots are usually long. The range finder I have now is good to 500 yd. but on an animal about 300 is max. Are the mil-dot scopes accurate if you know the size of your target. Thanks for your ideas.

IF you are well experienced in the use of the mildot scopes they are great, providing you have enough time for the calculations. same thing for range finders, if the animal is going to stand around long enough and if it reads right - great. now go out the the rifle range and learn how to judge distance ( boy will i get heat for this)

As a long range hunter I use both. A range finder and Mil-dots. As mentioned, there are many times when a rangefinder will not provide a reading, so you will need a backup. Some of the newer reticles such as the TMR are actually superior to the old Mil-dot, but the principle is the same. As Butch eluded, in the long range hunting game, good equipment will help, but it requires alot of practice to get good at judging distance, wind.

I compete monthly in Sniper/Tactical matches. One of our usual COF is UNK (unknown distance). It takes practice, practice and, oh yes, more practice. Did I say it takes practice? I use a Nightforce 5.5-22x50, set at 22x with the NP-R1 reticle which has has marks every MOA on the horizontal plane and 2 MOA on the vertical plane. The 1 MOA reticle is much finer than a Mil-Dot reticle. Even then the further out the target, the worse my calc runs. I'm talking 600 plus. Now, 200 to about 500 or so yards you can a plausible job but it still takes practice.

Alan

Butch, I'm not sure why you think you'll take heat for your post. Your point is well taken. I have a 1000 yd range set here at my place and use it a lot. The problem for me is that in different landscapes and conditions my judgment isn't as good. For me, 700 yds in the mountains looks different than out here on the plains. Maybe no one else has that problem. I'm just looking for some way to take a little guess work out of the judgement process. I'll check out some of the different reticles mentioned and stay on the range till I get it right.

Shooting long range is a lot like baking a cake.

First you need one of these. This happens to be an IOR MP8 reticle. It's a mil based reticle with hashs every .5 Mils (1.8"@100yds)



That reticle is in the this scope (IOR 3-18x42mm FFP MIL/MIL) mounted on this rifle:



Then you one of the following two items:

A LRF that works, or a Mildot Master if it doesn't:



The Mildot master is a sliderule that let's you input your target size in inches, compared to the target size in MILS, and gives you the range in yards.

How accurate is it? Very good if you have a good known target size, and can read your reticle. Plus no batteries required.

Lastly you will need a drop table for your load, weather conditions, and altitude that you develop using this:

JBM trajectory simplified

Then you send it. See just like baking a cake. Of course lots of practice helps when your target is north of 500 yds.

Regards,

Bob

About twenty years ago I had Premier Reticle convert a 6.5-20X Leupold to first focal plane reticle (crosshair size increases with magnification increase, but POI does not). It's an 18-42X now. He put 1/8" dots 3-6-9moa high and 3-6-9-12moa low. He also put windage lines 3moa left and right. This way, you don't have to get a gee-whiz mil dot reticle and abacus-thingie and learn how to use it. You just use the 3moa spacing on the dots.

Premier Reticle is in Winchester, VA.

Rich

OK, now I'm getting excited. It looks like I will be trying this. I have a mil dot scope on my sons 257 rob and have a nice load for it. I'll make a drop table for it at our range. This mil dot master looks like a dandy little thing and not a lot of money. If I can get comfortable with the 257 and using the mil dots, I'll put a new scope on my 264 win mag. Thanks for the advice

quote:

That reticle is in the this scope (IOR 3-18x42mm FFP MIL/MIL) mounted on this rifle:

Bob,

I really dig your "skins". Where did you get them? Might spruce up mine a bit.

Alan

GSSP,

They are just regular old AI skins I had hydro dipped by

DashDips

Bob

quote:

...Are the mil-dot scopes accurate if you know the size of your target.

The fact that u asked this one simple question tells me that u may have that slightly more than avg. interest in math that will allow you to be open-minded about applying reticles for rangefinding (and downrange zeroing), better than most.

It's important for a longer-range shooter to completely understand the "mil-ranging formula" backwards and forwards to use it to it's fullest capabilities. Once u understand the MRF then it can also be used to calculate tgt. size downrange (reverse milling) as well. Nice thing about "mil-ranging" is that the math is not specific to the mil-dot 3.6 inch per hundred yds. subtension (as Rich alluded to above), and can be applied with any multi-stadia reticle including simple plex. Here's the formula in it's most basic form--

tgt size (") x range of reticle subtension measurement (usally 100 yds.) / reticle subtension (") / "mil-reading" (decimal equivalent) = range (yds.)

looks complicated but actually super-simple to apply. Hows about an 11" tgt. (avg. winter coyote back to brisket) that occupies 1.5 mils. in your mil-dot optic (3.6 inch per 100 yds. between dots)--

11 x 100 / 3.6 / 1.5 = 200 yds.

In a couple days a buddy of mine is coming down for antelope hunting. He's using a 30-06 with the 6x Leupold FX-III. According to pg. 100 of the '09 catalog the subtension between x-hair and plex post tips is 4.5 inch per hundred yds. Knowing that the avg. doe is 14" back to brisket he could make up a chart for his reticle by calcing the system and putting it in a BC scope cap cover for use if needed. Here would be 2 entries using his reticle--

14 x 100 / 4.5 / 1.0 = 310
14 x 100 / 4.5 / 0.9 = 350
so his dope would look like this--

1.0-310
0.9-350

See how it works?

Shadow has a great system above, but understanding the MR formula completely allows for way more flexibility.

Last coyote season i reticle-ranged 2 coyotes to about the ~500-yd. mark successfully using a 3 MOA reticle probably like Rich's above.

Here's the system i developed for an 11" coyote using a .5 mil (1.8"/100yds.) subtension system placed in a Butler Creek Blizzard-style objective cover--


...and a 435-yd. coyote with an XP-100 6.5 WSM using the same .5 mil reticle above--this time for downrange zeroing (in the BC ocular cover)--