I would like to begin some discussion on hunting binoculars. The 4 I'm looking at are, (in no particular order):
Pentax SP's
Kahles
Swarovski
Bushnell Elite
I think I like the 8x better than the 10x but you are welcome to discuss this also.

i have owned the SP's. Good but there is better.. How much do you want to spend? I recently looked at the leica ultravid, swarovski El, and Zeiss FL and they were all in 8x42...The zeiss was the cheapest by a couple hundred dollars and offers a lifetime transferable warranty, flourite glass, and abbe-konig prisms, and larget field of view @ 405'. Bottome line I thought they were the best and being the cheapest helped. The Ultravids were phenomenal as well but were 350$ more??? Couldnt figure that out

I like all 3 you mention and once you break the $1,000 barrier, I don't know how much attention I will pay to the price, although saving $350 could pay for a eye piece doubler.
Is the zeiss warranty better than the others?

You have to go to a store and try them yourself. Thats the way the eye doctor does it.

He tries the glasses on you and then asks YOU what you like!!

The Kahles I tried had a very narrow field of view.

i looked thru all of them but not under every type of lighting and field condition. you cannot go wrong with the top 3 period. Swarovski and leica do not offer transferable lifetime warranty's, their's are limited to the original owner. Humans hunt with their eyes, not their ears or nose, what could be more important than the optical instrument you will spend countless of hours looking thru? Dont skimp on the glass, go 1st class!

Cliff Lyle---Back in the stone ages when Bausch & Lomb was made in USA---they were the standard for optics. I don't recall going to an optometrist---military or civilian that was not using B&L equipment. During the WW2 era,B&L binoculars were used on ships by the Navy and other military used them. With all the technology since then,other binoculars might be as good now,but in my books none beat them. Go to EBAY and you'll find a lot of WW2 7x50's for sale. These MIGHT work for you--depending on type hunting. They are bulky and heavy--but tough. Keep watching and a pair of Zephyrs will show up---7x35's--much lighter and optically just as good. There will be no warranty--most of these old enough to draw social security(the Zephyrs will be little younger). They are pretty much trouble free being so tough built--but they can still be worked on,a complete refurbish if needed. For what you will pay and throw in a complete refurbish you'll be bucks ahead and have the best. The more power you get,the harder it is to get on what you want to look at and any shake is magnified--7x works great. I much prefer the shoulder strap harness over a neck strap. Even the bulky 7x50's are fairly comfortable to me with shoulder strap--I use them for the lightweights too. I bought my B&L back in 60's and still going strong.

they are porro prism, not waterproof, wide, heavy, and bulky BUT iam sure thye work for most anything....

What you have to decide with binos is if you need it, and how much you're willing to pay for the last 5-7% of optical performance. There's no question Leica, Zeiss, Swarovski, and the Nikon LX's are top tier, but not everyone needs or can afford that kind of performance.

Optics have come along ways recently, and IMHO, $500.00-$600.00 today buys what would've cost you $1,000.00+ just a few years ago.

I've owned everything from Swarovski EL's and Leica Ultravids, to the Pentax DCF SP's and Bushnell Elite's, and my opinion is unless you spend at least three weeks a year in the field or make a living behind your binos, the gains are not worth the additional cost...YMMV.

quote:

Originally posted by PATRIOT76:
you cannot go wrong with the top 3 period. Swarovski and leica do not offer transferable lifetime warranty's, their's are limited to the original owner.

You are correct that you can't go to far wrong with the top 3. However you are incorrect about the Swarovski warrenty. If you send something in broken they fix it and usually here in the states without having to go back overseas. Zeiss and Leica may have warrantees as good as Swarovski but nobody has better service.................DJ

Thank you all. Everyone contributed with valid points that should be considered when making a purchase of this type. I find myself struggling with the point brought up of paying for the final 5-7% of optical performance. Your input is helpful. Thanks again.

Don't spend more than you can afford but buy the best you can afford. When hunting I use my binoculars constantly. To me it makes sense to have the best for what you use the most..................DJ

Swarovski's written warranty states it's good for the original owner only; however, in the real world, I've never heard of them denying anyone warranty coverage, even if the damage was the users fault.

Leica are sticklers on warranty coverage for the original purchaser only, and even then require proof of purchase through a receipt or warranty card. I've read several accounts of them charging rediculous amounts for repairs not covered under warranty. The good thing about Leica is they're built like a tank and the chance you'd ever need warranty work is slim to none.

Zeiss' warranty is fully transferable, but is limited to workmanship issues only, not user fault such as Leica's Passport warranty.

Nikon also offers a no questions asked warranty on their binos that allows you to return them for $10.00 plus return shipping.

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
Don't spend more than you can afford but buy the best you can afford. When hunting I use my binoculars constantly. To me it makes sense to have the best for what you use the most..................DJ

actually gr8fuldoug mentioned to me that zeiss has outstanding customer service and warranty service and that he has had customers have issues with swarovski and he sells alot of optics. I have heard on the boards about excellent customer service from zeiss regarding conquest scopes even if it was the users fault

I ahve the Pentax sp's 8x43. I use the hell out of them and for the bucks I think they are great glass. There are some great prices on them right now.

I also own the Pentax 8x43 SL's and am completely happy with them... Well almost.

When I can afford it, I'll buy Swarovski. I've stacked binoculars and my lasic improved 55 year old eyes thought the Swarovski binoculars were noticably better than the rest.

If you never look through the thousand dollar plus binoculars beside your Pentax 8x43 SL's you'll swear that nothing could be enough better to warrant the extra money and you'll be happy as a kid at Christmas.

Once you've done the comparison (assuming your eyes are in excellent condition) you'll always harbor that niggling doubt that you might be missing something in the field if you don't get the Swarovski's.

Since sight is our only real sensory advantage in hunting over our quarry, the way I see it, enhancing our ability to see clearly at almost any range is tantamount!

Today... I use Bushnell Elite 4200 scopes and Pentax SL binoculars. Tomorrow, when I can afford it, it'll be Swarovski or whoever has the best glass I can afford at that time.

NOW!!! If I could just cure my passionate NEED for Remington Custom Shop rifles...

$bob$

It is very true that there are excellent options in binoculars in the under $800.00 price range.
Pentax DCF SP
Minox HG or BR ASPH
Vortex Razor's or Viper's
Nikon Premier Series
The last year or so has introduced a few very high quality binoculars in the not so expensive price range.

If I remember correctly, Pentax binocs and scopes are made by Burris. So, don't forget to look at Burris Signature binocs-VERY nice (can be heavy though).

I wound up getting a pair of Dr. Optic in 8x32 (porro prism). They are very sharp, bright, great resolution, true colors, and are light around the neck. I think they were ~ $300-350 (?) ~ 5-7 years ago. They come in rubberized or pebble exterior. Mine are classic black pebble. I like them a lot. Dr. Optic is/was East German Zeiss (lower cost, similar quality). Bought them from Rockstad Enterprises, Templeton, CA (phone: 805-434-3567)

I've walked many miles with them, and can only offer top comments for them. Sharp enough to pick out the top of a woodchuck's head at ~ 400+ yards. Big performance, small package.

Zeiss aus Jena binoculars can be an excellent value for the money but they aren't anywhere near the quality of "West German" Zeiss, I have pairs of both...............DJ

I have a friend that sells optics at Sportsman's Warehouse. Right after Thanksgiving I went in there and business was slow. I spent a couple of hours BSing with him and looked at the binoculars that he liked for his own use. The Steiner Merlins were great for the $470 or so they cost. There was a very significant and noticeable performance improvement over comparable glasses that I tried. The ergonomics of the Steiners were the best that I tried by far. I also checked out the $1300 Swarovskis. They were a little better optically but did not feel user friendly. I would sure not pay the difference in the 2 glasses that I tried.
I much preferred the Steiners.

Used to buy cheap glass. Worried about damaging or losing good glass. No more. Scored a pair of Leica 10 X 42 binoc. a couple of years ago. Love 'em to death.
GWB

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
I also checked out the $1300 Swarovskis. They were a little better optically but did not feel user friendly. I would sure not pay the difference in the 2 glasses that I tried.

That's EXACTLY what we're talking about!

The difference between the Swarovski's and the Steiners may be small but that 2-5% edge can make worlds of difference in the field and that is what we're willing to pay mountains extra for (if we can afford it). That slight edge will be multiplied greatly in low light in actual forest conditions.

I was fortunate to do my "stacking" in the piney woods of north Florida as the sun faded. The Swarovski's evidenced a small difference that some of us could see and some couldn't. When the sun was almost gone and twilight took over everyone could see the difference but it was still pretty small. When almost all light from the sun was largely gone, and then later by moonlight and starlight, the Swarovski advantage was UNDENIABLE and noticable. I became a believer that day.

Third place that day went to the best pair that was under the magic thousand dollar price tag and it's the pair I use today, because it was the best I could afford at that time... Pentax 8x43 DCF SP.

I'm not familiar with the ergonomic differences having not carried Steiners before. Can you elaborate on that?

$bob$

LDHunter, I think the Pentax are a great value, I agree they are close to the $1000+ glass, not equal but very close for most hunting uses.

quote:

Originally posted by catboat:
If I remember correctly, Pentax binocs and scopes are made by Burris. So, don't forget to look at Burris Signature binocs-VERY nice (can be heavy though).

Actually, I believe Pentax makes binoculars for Burris and Burris makes riflescopes for Pentax. If you are going to spend the kind of money it takes for Swarovski then I'd also look at Zeiss Victory FL.

Pentax makes all their own binoculars.

Burris builds Pentax's Lightseeker, Whitetails Unlimited and Pioneer riflescopes using Pentax's optics.
The agreement is that Burris builds the scopes for Pentax with Pentax glass and Pentax supplied Burris with the glass for the Burris riflescopes.
The Pentax Gameseeker riflescopes are made in Pentax's own factory in China with pentax optics.

I hope this clears this up.

i have compared the Pextax SP's to the Zeiss FL's and yes there is a difference. eye fatigue was one area, brightness, FOV, etc.... you have to justify the cost to yourself but it is there

Try some image stabilized binocs...in real world field conditions you'll see more detail than all the high priced offerings unless you want to carry a tripod around.

Zupspoon,

I tried some Nikon image stabilizers in a sporting goods store in St Petersburg Florida about a year ago and HATED them!!!

They were waaaaay over a thousand bucks (can't remember exact price) and the image just wasn't clear. They were also quite heavy and didn't fit the hands worth a flip.

I had my 8x43 DCF SP's in the car and they let me bring them in.

My Pentax's were WAY clearer across the lake that the store is located on.

I couldn't believe that Nikon had the nerve to try to get the huge price they were trying to get for blurry junk.

Yes... When I walked and used them the image stabilized just fine but was still too blurry for my taste.

$bob$

LDHunter,

Can't speak on Nikon IS products, but I have Canon IS 10x25's and on a recent Montana elk and deer hunt, I was able to consistently identify details the guides couldn't see with their fancy dancy top-of-the-line Swaros...not a matter of better clarity, but bino shake. However, the Canon optics are pretty good on their own. I have a pair of Pentax 8x42 DCF's, and the Canon optics are superior in definition.

$bob$

A 2.5mm exit pupil renders binoculars useless for a lot of the hunting I do..............DJ

Doug:

You need to give the Minox plug.....I bought 'em and could not be happier. AND, I have a pair of Swaro's and Nikon's to compare them to. They are excellent and weigh less.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer

Gary,
I know that the Minox are the best value for the money, you know this as do all the other guys that have purchased them or checked out their friends Minox's, however it is hard to get the word out.

OK, I'll give it a try

If you are in the market for an excellent binocular or spotting scope and are in the $300.00 - $800.00 price range then Minox is really a glass worth checking out. In the under $1000.00 price catagory there is, IMO, no finer optic than the Minox HG line of binoculars. Their spotters are 62mm and compact. They offer a 21-42x LER (Long Eye Relief) eyepiece that is sweet.
Please feel free to give me a call to discuss optics.

Good job, Doug....and I can vouch for this firsthand.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer

I've been hunting with a pair of Swarovski Habicht's in 10x42 for about 10 years now and they are by far the best glass I have ever owned. I just recently sent them off too have them checked out and cleaned, which I haven't done since I bought them. I've let all my friends look through them and they can't believe how clear and crisp they are, plus there's no eye fatigue when using them for hours on end. They are considerably cheaper than the EL's and in my opinion, just as good. Take a look at the Zeiss Conquests too, I bought a pair for the wife this past July and they are a very nice glass for under $500. She looked through 7-8 different makes and models before deciding on the Conquests. There certainly is a wide selection to choose from these days!