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Which scopes do you think have the most consistent adjustments and the least consistent adjustments? as in a 1/4 min is really a 1/4 min Split it up by high dollar and medium dollar. So lets put Zeiss, leica, and swarovski in one group and Leupold, Minox, high end weavers, highend bushnells in aother group. Feel free to add any brands you want. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | ||
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A click was a click on: Leupold and March A click wasn't a click on: Zeiss, Swarovski, Minox | |||
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Zeiss has always been my most consistent brand when it came to clicks. This was pretty much across their model range and over the last 20 years or so. Swaro was a gamble for some older scopes I have, but newer models seem fine. Leupold was a bit of a pain in the posterior, but at least the adjustments moved the POI in the right direction. New series VX-3 seems a lot better. I only have one of their scopes, but my Weaver Grand Slam is actually very good. In general, it seems very common for a given number of clicks to provide more adjustment than specified. So I normally click less than what the distance and specified clicks/inch would have led me to believe. - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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I would agree with Mike D so far as the Swaro and Leupolds go. ie the Swaros are more consistent than Leupolds. Haven't used the others enough. | |||
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My S&B police marksman 3-12x50 is dead on.... | |||
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I've found Leupolds in the hunting scopes to be reasonbly consistent, but usually coarser than the advertised .25 MOA. Leupolds in the target-varmint powers seem pretty close to .25 MOA as represented. The old El Paso Weavers had many faults, but their adjustments were dead-on. I have no idea about the scopes that are currently sold under the Weaver name. A friend was attempting to sight-in three rifles at my place last weekend, all with Zeiss Conquest 3-9x44 scopes. From the results, it appears that all of those scopes moved considerably more than the .25 MOA assumed -- more like .4 MOA per click. | |||
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My Leupold 6.5-20x40 are very consistent but give 1/3" rather than 1/4" velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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I don't know about the ones assembled in the U.S., but most of the German assembled Zeiss scopes I have owned seemed to move 1 Centimeter per click at 100 meters (.39" adjustments at 110 yards, roughly). It would not surprise me if Leupold (with their wide international market) have also gone "Metric" without telling us. Not too much difference between 1/4 inch and 1/3" for must hunting uses. Incidentally, the Central brand (Australia) receiver sights I prefered for my Palma rifles, came either way, 1/4" at 100 yards, or 1 cm at 100 meters. Edited to add: a click which is worth about 1 cm at 100 meters, is only approximately .35" to .36" at 100 yards ( about .0039" less than 1 cm,) not very different from .333", which would be 1/3 inch at 100 yards. | |||
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As much as I have bashed them, my Leupolds were defintely th emost consitant. Back when i was able to shoot in competition i shot every day that was not hunting season or afull blown torrential downpour. those target turrets were moved thousands of clicks every year as i moved the elevation (i always held for the wind-shooting smallbor sihlouette) for the 4 ranges of the targets. I shot many "proper" groups, getting an aggregate of averageing 5, 5 shot groups at 40, 60, 77, and 100 meters. it hit where it clicked HOWEVER- all scopes need to be "screwed in" when adjusted. by this i mean the screw mechanism of the adjustment needs to be turned several clicks in the clock-wise direction. as an example-if you wabted to move a 1/4min/click scope up one inch, "unscrew" the adjustment mechanisim to move it about 6 clicks above where you want to widn up. so in this example adjust up for 2 1/2", then adjust down 6 clickls. this position will be 1" or 4 clicks above your orginal zero. same goes for th ewindage system. they are all right hand thread, so go "righty-tighty 6 clicks" to your desired impact point. this goes A LONG WAY to making adjustments consistant and accurate, but i almost never hear anyone who is not a competition shooter saying it. btw-my favorite scope is my one and only Schmidt & Bender. it has 1cm clicks and i can depend on it like clockwork. It will, damn near every time, move the point of impact anywhere between .079" to .803" for every click all day, every day, juts like clockwaork. BUT-it stays where it is when i screw the caps on way better than any other scope i own or have shot on others' rifles. | |||
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I suspect that you're right. One CM at 100M would equal .3579" at 100 yards. This is pretty close to the amount the Zeiss Conquests I was speaking of appeared to move. It is also close to what I've experienced with Leupolds in the 9X and below range. I do have a couple of 6-18 VX-II's that appear to be close to the .25", but if anything, they are a bit wide of that mark. By the way, one of the virtues extolled of the old Vari-X Leupolds was that their non-click friction adjustments allowed (thoeretically) infinitely small adjustments that didn't have to comport with 1/4" (or 1/3") jumps. That was one of their selling point when compared against the competitors (which mostly used click adjustments.) All I can say is that "fashion changes". | |||
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I usually make a practice of "over adjusting" by a couple of clicks, then coming three click "back", then one click "forward" in order to reach my intended adjustment -- regardless of which direction the adjustment is moving. It appears that you are saying that the "final adjustment" direction should always be in the clockwise direction, regardless of which way you ultimately wish to move the POI? | |||
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That is correct. The turrets need to be screwed "in" for proepr adjustment. So if you are shooting too high and need to adjust the group cenmter down, just screw the turret in/clockwise to move the point of impact down. if your rifle is shooting 1" below where you want it and have a scope with 1/4" adjustments, "unscrew/turn counter-clockwise" 10 clicks, then screw the turret in 6 clicks. this puts your group center 4 clicks/1" higher than the original group. it has to do with the spring pressure against the erector tube. 6 clicks will do it, but 4 is probably enough. we all did 6 just to be sure. | |||
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When you wish to move the POI in the direction of the clockwise adjustment, do you simply move the prescribed number of clicks without any back-and-forth? Also, note that not all scopes use the same direction of rotation for direction of POI movement. Even worse, I ran across a cheapie Asian scope a while back (belonged to a friend's son, not mine) which was mismarked as to the direction of rotation for POI movement. Sighting in was a frustrating experience, to say the least. | |||
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I have not "clicked" my Schmidt and Benders for 30 years. Once installed they have stayed "dead on" for that long. Have 3 of them. All 1&1/2 X 6 on 7-08, 338 Win Mag and 375 H&H Ack Imp.40 degree. Good Shooting Tetonka DRSS | |||
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That's great, but it says much more about your rifles than it does the scopes. | |||
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Nightforce are the only ones I have that I click for other than intial zero. They seem excellent. BigB | |||
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VALDADA!  Doug Humbarger NRA Life member Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 72'73. Yankee Station Try to look unimportant. Your enemy might be low on ammo. | |||
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My Zeiss ( diavari and Victory) have all measured up, my Hensoldt is deadly spot on, .1 rad at allt times, same goes for my PMII 5-25. Had a leupold mark 4 for a while, sader piece of optics had to hard to find, backlash in both adjustments and parallax. If one is looking for the very best, March/SuB/Nightforce are the three big ones to look at. /Chris | |||
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I bought my first Nightforce in January and it has the most accurate and consistent adjustments of anything I have used. I have always been a Leupold and Nikon guy but Nightforce blows them away. | |||
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Certainly not a hunting scope, but have an older pristine Unertl 1.5 x 16 which is very dependable either windage or elevation. Definitely old school and very important that you have the two bases separated the right distance to get the .250" adjustment. It's a math thing. | |||
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Nightforce is the only scope I have used that is consistant when it comes to adjustments. I believe it is the best scope for the money. | |||
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I hate to say it but the 1/4 inch CLICKS on the Weavers going back to the early 50s were the best adjustments I have used..If those scopes had been more moisture proof they would have still been the best yet! but they did fog most of the time..I have one of the new Weavers in a 2.5X and it seems like a really nice clear scope and has yet to fog..That said I'm a Leupold die hard, and 65 years to back them up, nary a complaint, but I only use scopes to hunt with and am not an optical freak. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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