Had the opportunity to test a couple reticles for rangefinding applications recently. This copied from the Specialty Pistols website--

While we were there at the clinic Marc and i had some time to test the new TMR reticle that Leupold's putting out. the reticle is the Tactical Milling Reticle and is one of the best ballistic and ranging reticles made these days, IMO. It's simply the mil-dot reticle with short line stadia (replacing the dots) at .5 mil increments, and .2 mil between the 4th and 5th mil-lines. http://www.leupold.com/products/reticles_TMR.htm The .2 mil allows for an interpolative milling accuracy of .02 mil which is a huge improvement over the std. mil-dot-- and it is a very accurate system. We ranged several of the 12, 24, and 36" tgts. there, and accuracy was within 1-3% of lasered 4 out of 5 times all the way out to 800 yds. in some mirage. Here's an example of the mil-ranging we accomplished with the TMR on the 500 yd. 24" disc--

mil-ranging formula (inches to yds.)--

tgt. size (") X range of reticle subtension measurement (usually 100 yds.) / subtension (mil-3.6") / reticle gap occupied (tenths of the total gap) = range (yds.)

24" X 100 / 3.6 / 1.3 = 513 yds.

Here's a couple more examples:

tgt. size/gap occupied/calc'd range/laser range

24/1.2/555/550
24/1.15/580/600
24/.95/702/700
24/.825/808/800

The .2 mil stadia made interpolation easy though admittedly some of the readings above are a bit optimistic, since some have gone beyond the reticle/optics level of accuracy (800 yarder).

Also had the opportunity to do some "modified mil-ranging" with the Varmint Hunter reticle in my 4.5-14X Leupold scope. The formula is the same as above. The only difference is the reticle subtension changes from the 3.6" mil-dot std. to whatever the particular reticle subtension is (4.32" for the 2nd stadia of the VH reticle). Here's the calc for a 17.2" rectangular plate we had set up @ 450 yds.--

17.2" x 100 / 4.32 / 0.9 = 442 yds.

...and a 24" @ 500--

24" x 100 /4.32 / 1.1 = 505

These were excellent examples of how well "mil-ranging" works, as the 450 yd. tgt. was ranged against a light, sandy background making it difficult at best to define the tgts. white edges.

This stuff is a lot of fun sometimes, and can blow your mind how effective it is.

Premier Reticle’s GenII mil-dot is the best, IMO.

Their dots are .2 mils in diameter and they also have hash marks between the dots for precise measuring.

Their system makes it easy to range down to 1/10th of a mil if needed, and it is allot easier and more “natural†for most people to use a round dot as an aiming point for leads and hold overs than to use a line.

Looks like u could have an accuracy level of .05 mil, if u could break the .5 mil subtensions into tenths-- that may be pushing it tho.

http://www.premierreticles.com/index.php?uid=5465&page=1793

Take a look for yourself. I have this reticle on two scopes and a Leupold spotting scope. The 10x is on its second tour in Iraq, M1Tanker has it right now, and my son’s outfit used it last year. and the 3.5x10 and the spotter did one tour with my son.

This is the same reticle that Premier is installing for the Marine Corps (only illuminated) for their new S&B sniper scopes.

Yes, i've seen the system. I like the TMR since it can be broken down into .05 mil easily, and maybe .02, and it was well designed in that .2 mil stadia r only at each end of the 2 axes, though it's probably only really needed in 1 horizontal, 1 vertical. That would've been a simpler, neat looking reticle, and utilitarian as well. For varminting the reticle fits our needs well.

...hope all's well with those guys.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
http://www.premierreticles.com/index.php?uid=5465&page=1793

Take a look for yourself. I have this reticle on two scopes and a Leupold spotting scope. The 10x is on its second tour in Iraq, M1Tanker has it right now, and my son’s outfit used it last year. and the 3.5x10 and the spotter did one tour with my son.

This is the same reticle that Premier is installing for the Marine Corps (only illuminated) for their new S&B sniper scopes.

Well that's nice Rick but it's my understanding they will no longer work on Leupold scope for us civilians.

quote:

Originally posted by Jay Johnson:

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
http://www.premierreticles.com/index.php?uid=5465&page=1793

Take a look for yourself. I have this reticle on two scopes and a Leupold spotting scope. The 10x is on its second tour in Iraq, M1Tanker has it right now, and my son’s outfit used it last year. and the 3.5x10 and the spotter did one tour with my son.

This is the same reticle that Premier is installing for the Marine Corps (only illuminated) for their new S&B sniper scopes.

Well that's nice Rick but it's my understanding they will no longer work on Leupold scope for us civilians.

That’s true, unless its a Leupold scope that you bought from them or one that you had them install their reticle in. I don’t know all the particulars, but the two companies no longer have a working relationship like they used to.

Rick

I think it's because the previous owner died. The new owner his son just made a business decision based on resources and money.

quote:

Originally posted by Jay Johnson:
Rick

I think it's because the previous owner died. The new owner his son just made a business decision based on resources and money.

I’ve been a customer of Premier for about 16 years and I spoke with Dick Thomas just before he died and the decision had already been made to split with Leupold. I believe it had more to do with competing reticle styles, and who would promote/sell/service things.

quote:

Originally posted by sscoyote:
These were excellent examples of how well "mil-ranging" works, as the 450 yd. tgt. was ranged against a light, sandy background making it difficult at best to define the tgts. white edges.
.

Sure, but just one question. I see "tgt.size" in the formulas, and I've often wondered just how standard real targets are. Here on game we have little medium and big of the same animals, and perps/enemy probably from 5' to over 6'. And not many are stupid enough to stand bolt upright.

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:

quote:

Originally posted by sscoyote:
These were excellent examples of how well "mil-ranging" works, as the 450 yd. tgt. was ranged against a light, sandy background making it difficult at best to define the tgts. white edges.
.

Sure, but just one question. I see "tgt.size" in the formulas, and I've often wondered just how standard real targets are. Here on game we have little medium and big of the same animals, and perps/enemy probably from 5' to over 6'. And not many are stupid enough to stand bolt upright.

Using the mil formula only requires that you know the approximate size of “something†on or near your target. You do not need to have a full body standing perfectly still and posing for you. That certainly helps, but it‘s not mandatory in order to estimate range.

There's no question that it's not going to work all the time, but it'll get u closer than "eyeballing" the range thru experience (my experience, that is). Another thing that helps is to attempt to judge the age of the game you're shooting thru the optic, to more accurately judge the size of that particular animal, relative to the avg. If u work the mil-ranging , and modified mil-ranging formula backwards (reverse milling), u can see just how accurate the system is, by substituting +/- .1 "stadia unit", and/or +/- 1" tgt. size. This is just a backup system if the laser doesn't cooperate for whatever reason--plus it's just plain fun to play with, besides teaching u a lot about your optic.

Imagine this-- you're out with your buddies on a pr. dog shoot, and there's one sitting way out there on top of his mound (just like the picture of the pr. dog that Leupold uses for their ranging stadia in their Varmint Hunter reticle). Their std. is that an avg. mature pr. dog sitting on top of his mound is right around 7.3" tall (height determined from reverse milling). If the laser's not working, why not "modified mil-range" him, as described above, using the stadia subtension as 2.44 inch per hundred yds. (or use whatever reticle/subtension u may have on hand at the time). Could blow your buddies minds,--yours too (and mine) for that matter. It's a blast playing with this stuff, believe me.

Sure, but if I really needed a long range shot I'd be using a quality laser,(most of mine are by point blank type groups and previously laser ranged areas as my pests don't have a habbit of hanging around in the open for long,) but I like the look of the stadia ? (sp) lines with wind lengths that I've seen advertised recently.