I went shopping for two fixed power scopes last saturday. A 6X for a 22-250, and a 4X for my .270. Without exception every store I went into tried to talk me into high powered variables. When I expained I just like fix powered scopes, and at my age (66) I was not about to change. They just looked at me with the deer in the headlights look. Am I the only one seeing this? For me and the type of hunting I do 6X and 4X work just fine. I have some good variables, but prefer fixed power to keep things simple. Sorry, it just caught me off guard.

I'm on your side.
I rarely ever buy a variable scope, and all recent purchases are fixed power scopes.
The only suggestion I have is to buy the scopes you want, from an Internet source. That's where I buy mine.
Like you, I am old and set in my ways on this issue.
Don't know how much money you want to spend, but there are a lot of very good scopes to be had in the 4x and 6x power range. I have some fixed 4x scopes made by Leupold, Zeiss Conquest, and Schmidt and Bender. Good 6x scopes are available from Leupold and Swarovski; I have both makes.

Don

DMB: I have the Leupold fixed powers on my rifles. I've heard the S&B are outstanding. I've a .375 being put together for a Brown Bear hunt next year. I've been in this area before, dark, close thickets. I was thinking of something like a 2-3/4X. what do you think?

I'm only 26 but shoot mostly fixed powers and I don't own a variable over 10x anymore. The Ti mountain rifle I just built wears a Leupold M8 6x42 with a German #4. I used to take a lot of crap at the gunshop I worked for over my optics choices.

So what is the better choice for a 270?

4x or 6x?

I am considering mounting an s&b fixed on my new toy.

Thanks,
John

Well I know you all don't want to hear this but;
Here, the fixed tended to be dearer, probably because they make less of them these days.

So, got a VARI-X 11 Leupold 3-9. Nice compact scope, and can be left set at either 4x or 6x.
And if you can't decide, try 5x.

In the scrub I go to 3x. Open areas a bit more. Long range, prob time to screw to 9. So, that heifer aint a deer after all.

quote:

Originally posted by cessna:
DMB: I have the Leupold fixed powers on my rifles. I've heard the S&B are outstanding. I've a .375 being put together for a Brown Bear hunt next year. I've been in this area before, dark, close thickets. I was thinking of something like a 2-3/4X. what do you think?

Maybe someone who has hunted Brown Bear can provide better advice than I can as I've never hunted them.
But, I've read that Brown Bear shots are not long shots, so the 2-3/4 might be a good choice.
I must say however, the S&B 4x36 is one outstanding scope optically.

Don

JohnHunt: I like the 4X on my .270. If I can't see it well enough with a 4X, I't too far out for me anyway.

For dawn and dusk, I think the 6 X 42 would be a better light gatherer, if that's the correct term. That may have some bearing on your choice.

The old question of 4x or 6x for hunting is about like the Ford/Chevy debates. Some of it depends on open country of brushy country. To me it's moot anymore. Time was a variable scope was expensive. Today since they make more the price is inline with fixed. The sales of fixed is much lower driving the cost up per scope. To me better value in a variable and you do have a choice where you set it.

It's a real shame that the marketing departments of the manufacturers have all but killed the demand for fixed power scopes.

Although today's variables are very dependable (and most of my rifles wear one), compared to a variable, a fixed scope will be:

1. Lighter in weight and more compact.
2. Give slightly better light transmission due to fewer lenses.
3. Be less subject to moisture intrusion.
4. Be less subject to vibration or recoil damage.
5. Have no potential for zero shift due to out-of-alignment power cam.
6. Be more versatile in mounting due to longer effective tube length and no protruding power adjustment ring.
7. Have a slightly wider field of view than a variable at the same power.
8. Will always be set on the "right" power!

There are obviously a lot of advantages to a fixed power scope. I appreciate that Leupold continues to make them (although they should have brought back their M-8 3x long ago.) But most dealers won't stock a fixed power, so they are usually a special order item.

Like Cessna says, if a game animal is too far away to see well enough to shoot with a 4x, then it is too far away to shoot, period.

I love the advantages of high power scopes for targets, varmints, and even sighting in my hunting rifles. But for "game" animals, I can't say that I would ever find myself at a real disadvantage with only a good 4x28 or 4x32.

Just a question. I remember when 3-9X scopes came out. What was the motivation for the latest trend in extremely high powered variables? It seems the higher power the better. Of course that may be my age showing. I understand the marketing appeal. I do also understand being able to dial in a power appropriate for the circumstances. I guess I just run on the KISS principle. It seems to work for me. When you put the rifle to your shoulder you always know what to expect.

The higher power on a variable is nice for sighting in. I can't ever remember needing it while hunting. Check out a moose or elk at two hundred yards at 3x. They look huge.

For 25 or so years, my go to open country rifle is my Win 70 in 264 Win Mag.

It has a Leupold 6x fixed power scope on it. I can't be convinced of any way to improve on this.

It's my favorite mule deer killer, and its going to Africa with me on the next trip.

quote:

Originally posted by Mikelravy:
The higher power on a variable is nice for sighting in. I can't ever remember needing it while hunting. Check out a moose or elk at two hundred yards at 3x. They look huge.

Exactly.
I did have variables years ago, and found that I'd set the power at about 4x and leave it there, after sighting in. So, one day I realized that I just don't need a variable for hunting. And, I can sight the rifle in with a low power scope, it's just not as convenient as having a higher power to do so.
But, my rifles sure look a whole lot better now with fixed 4x and 6x scopes on them, and they work!
I have several old Leupold 3x scopes that are very good, but the optics are dated, and not a good as today's glass. They worked back then, and they can work today, not as well at dawn and dusk though as current scopes.

Here's a pix of a Rem 722 in 300 Savage with a Leupy 3x on top. I think it looks super...

DMB: I like your 722. It really looks good with that fixed powered scope on it. I don't feel sooooo alone anymore liking fixed power scopes.

quote:

Originally posted by cessna:
What was the motivation for the latest trend in extremely high powered variables?

The motivation is almost exclusivly the age-old misconception that "bigger is better". It is also related to experience and maturity. You'll find that there is a huge demand for scopes like 8-32X for "deer rifles" in the under-30 set of hunters. As hunters gain experience they begin to understand that appropriate magnification may not be the same as more magnification.

Even in the varmint fields, magnification above about 18X is difficult to use to your advantage due to mirage, not to mention an impossibly small field of view. As I say, the demand for very high magnification variables is largely driven by inexperience. And as Mikelravy says, an elk at 200 yards looks huge (or at least plenty big enough) when magnified three times.

Used 4x and 6x to kill 80-90% of the deer I have killed.

Never was 'under-scoped' on a hunt.

My latest gem is a Fx2 6x42 German #4. The only other reticle I might prefer right now is the #1, it is very fast as I had one in a 4x33.

I REALLY believe it is partly due to lower demand, but likely more so that the mfg. are trying to shove higher priced optics down the throats of the public by limited their choices.

That is ashame, but I will continue buying more fixed x scopes and welcome any quality mfg. i.e. Bushnell to jump on the bandwagon and offer us K.I.S.S. guys more choices, and they can reap a few extra dollars.

Think of all the game long ago shot with 2.5x, 3x and 4x scopes......and still being done in, in a time that was Pre-high powered variable era.

Cessna, because you are using your 375 on a very large animal that may well be shot close range, field of view is most important and I feel a 2.5x or 3x would be all you need/want.

If the short compact 2.5x scopes can fit on your rifle base/ring set up w/o issue (they are shorter than 3x) I say a heavy duplex would be a bold reticle set up against a Brown bear.

That reticle will be esp. prominent in low light should you need it.

Good luck whatever you choose.

Forgive me if i didn't catch it in the post above i just skimmed them...
I love and have mostly fixed power for several reasons.

#1 More durable.
#2 larger lenses on the inside... varibles by nessesity have smaller lenses on the inside to make room for the assembly so i have been told

and exit pupils are big on lower power scopes getting more light to my aging eyes.

4x32 gives an exit pupil of 8 - the largest your eye can dialate anyway.

6x42 give an exit pupil of 7 - not bad.

Go for a 2-9x40 and at 9x power you only get an exit pupil of 4.4
or if it is a 50mm lense 5.5 which restricts a lot of light reaching your eye.

So that is why i prefer my 4x32 IOR over my 6x42 Kahles. Its brighter! or my conquest 3-9x40 zeiss.

Aaron

I have a mixture of fixed & variable scopes - depending on the intended use of the rifle.

22-250 has a Nightforce 4-12x50 for day & night foxing at ranges from 50-400yds.
.243 has a Leupold FX-II for deer stalking, where shots are rarely over 200yds.
.270 has a VX-III 3.5-10x40 for shooting from a static position out to 400yds & more.

The .243/6x42 combination is definitely my favourite though & capable of more than is asked of it.

cessna,

Like you, I spent most of my life hunting with a 4x, I now have those and low powered variables (2 to 8 being the biggest). I can't figure out what in the hell a HUNTER is going to do with these 16 maybe even 20X scopes, I can see what a SHOOTER might do, provided he has a bench rest handy when a deer-elk-whatever will cooperate. I am just lost every time I have the kind o encounter you describe, and worse yet, I see young fellows going down, even way down in quality in order to afford more power......fools and their money.

Well, I'm old enough to just pick what I think works best--I've got a few fixed,and a few very low max magnification variables--i.e. 1.5 x 6. I've got a bunch of variables.

Variables are good because of what they are--variable. I hunt a lot. I only shoot at the range (a lot due to having a lot of rigs, and practicing with them!) to sight in and practice to learn the rigs, but my rigs are for hunting. I hunt 3 or 4 tracts of land for most of my hunting, other than a trip or two. On these tracts, I have areas I stalk around, areas I sit stands where shot max distances are on the order of 150 yards, and stands where max distances are on the order of 500 yards, and can be as little as 75 yards. My point is that I use a few different rifles in all of these situations, sometimes the appropriate magnification (IMO) is 3 or 4 power, sometimes it is 9-12, depending on what is max on that rigs' scope. I adjust the scope depending on the situation--that is good in my opinion.

I have shot a lot at distance at the range, and relatively--in the field also. I can definitely shoot more accurately/precisely at distance with higher power. The FACT is that most deer hunting is done from a stand, and often with a shooting rail of some sort. I believe most folks benefit by shooting with a stable rest and a little more than a little less magnification--obviously the key here being not using to much or to little--to each their own on figuring this, but I haven't shot a game animal with 9+ power inside of 100 yards.

I can't distinguish quality of any type between my fixed scopes and my variables, although I am fortunate to have gotten good advice early, and I have always waited to buy a really good quality scope, in lieu of just getting 'any old scope' just to have one.

quote:

Originally posted by cessna:
DMB: I like your 722. It really looks good with that fixed powered scope on it. I don't feel sooooo alone anymore liking fixed power scopes.

Cessna,

I bought that rifle from Alan Glore who posts here on AR. He had it for sale in the classified about 9 months ago, and I hopped on it like a fly on fly paper...
My first centerfire rifle was a 722 in 300 Savage that I bought as a 15 year old kid in 1949. Later traded it for more power, etc.
I had to have another 722 in 300 Sav just to remember the good old days, so I bought it.

Have a 2 Bushnell Banner 2.5x20s, a Kahles 4x36 and a Swarovski 6x42. Will never get rid of them. Swaro and one Bushnell aren't mounted yet, but I have plans for them. I did trade off a Kahles Helia 8x50 Illuminated #1 reticle as it didn't fit my applications. If anyone is looking for one, it's still in the store I traded it at.

DMB-how many of us have done just what you did? Probably a whole lot more than will admit it. I had a Remington 521T (youth target .22) with Weaver K4 on it that was my #1 squirrel killer as a teen. When Ruger came out with the 77-22 had to have one and sold the Remington. Now have sold the Ruger and have another 521-T in cherry condition, plus the receiver is grooved for scope mounts and I didn't have to D&T it.

Stonecreek listed all the right reasons and I agree. After you get your single power compare it with your buddies variable dialed in to the same power. Have him look through both and watch for the amazed look on his face.

Well I didn't see Elk mentioned in the first post. I'd read all these opinons about fixed power scopes before (years ago).

For a big game specialist rifle, well OK. Elk are big. But for a 22/250? For varmints?
Comeon now guys. I'v had varmints jump up only a couple of yards away. 6x way too much, esp. in scrub. Same outing could be something SMALL and nasty out at 400 yards. 6x? well maybe. And maybe your cross hair will completely cover it.

The varibles are popular for a good reason, so why go on about weirdo's with the over size tactical scopes. Anything can be taken to extreem.

Variables are better for most hunting purposes, period. My go-to rifle wears a 3-12x56 Kahles and I use if from 3 to 12x almost daily and many times change from mid (starting) to high or low depending on what I'm seeing or where I'm at on the same hunt. Fixed powers have some advantages, but they are grossly outweighed by the advantages of variable powers IF the scope is matched to the rifle and situation.

JAL: One should buy a scope for his type of hunting. In my case it's open sage mixed with cedar and rocky small canyons 6X, PERFECT. Believe it or not (don't pay attention to the press) not everyone is an elk fanatic. I agree there are lots of different circumstances that arise requiring different powers. Then my decision is to shoot or not, depending on my comfort zone. That's why is called hunting and not killing. You are either a hunter or a shooter. Personal opinion only.

Sure thing Cessna. I wouldn't criticise anyone with a fixed power. I have had from 3x to 24x.
It's just when some make out we are mugs for using a medium range variable.

First I hunt, then I'm a shooter, then I'm a killer. No shoot and release policy here.

JAL: I like your last line, well put.

Cessna,
Add another "young punk" (27 yrs old) to the "fixed power is still the best" band wagon. I had the privilege of borrowing a Leupold 6x for this hunting season, and it worked great, until I had to do a finishing shot at close range (less than 20 feet). Then I could hardly see the critter. I have had an OLD Leupold 4x on my go-to 30-06 for about 7 years now, and the only thing that is a minor irritant is not being able to see the 200 yard bull at the range very well. It still does MOA at that distance, but it is tough. I am thinking of a 2-7, but may have to reconsider after the thoughts on brightness and internal issues.
Great post. I concure with your opinions.
Good hunting,
Graham

I like my fixed power scopes.

Old School - El Paso Weaver K4


New School - Bushnell Elite 3200 10X


Emergency go-to scope is a Nikon Buckmaster 4x40

Zeke: I like your El Paso 4X. I found an ElPaso 6X still in the box in like new condition. While adjusting the sights I apparently broke the crosshair adjustment. The people in Texas I was going to send it to for repair are no longer in business. So I guess I'll just hold on to it as a conversation piece. Too bad, I think it would have been nice to use,

quote:

Originally posted by cessna:
Zeke: I like your El Paso 4X. I found an ElPaso 6X still in the box in like new condition. While adjusting the sights I apparently broke the crosshair adjustment. The people in Texas I was going to send it to for repair are no longer in business. So I guess I'll just hold on to it as a conversation piece. Too bad, I think it would have been nice to use,

Try this guy for repairs to the El Paso.

IRON SIGHTS, INC.
Scope Service Div.
4814 S. Elwood Ave.
Tulsa, Ok. 74107
(918) 445-2001
(918) 521-7736

www.scopeservice@tulsacoxmail.com

www.ironsightinc.com


www.scopeservice736@aol.com

Thanks Oddbob, that's exactly the information I was looking for. I will contact them.