I know these don't go together often but I was recently surprised.
My Nikon Monarch 8x42's came up missing. They were pretty good for the money and I'm missing them so went to get another pair. While I'm at the counter I'm looking at the new Monarch 7's and some Luepold BX3. Sales guy handed me some Bushnell Legends. I liked them better than the luepolds, and the Nikons. Go figure.

Not too unusual, I suspect.

About 20 years ago I wanted to get a pair of 12X binos for a particular hunting purpose (glassing desert mountain ridges for mule deer, viewing into the brush from from one ridge top to another...)

Anyway, I drove the local big box stores nutso and it was very nice of them to accomodate me. (I'm sure they wouldn't today...)

I'd go in, and have them haul out all of the new 10-X or above glasses they had in stock. Sometimes that would include half a dozen or so different pairs of just one make and model.

They let me cart them all outside and look through each and every one, side-by-side. I was reading grubby license plates about two blocks away as an impromptu test.

It turned out that there was a considerable difference from one pair to the next, even of the same make and model.

Based on what I saw, I bought one of the least expensive pairs I tried and I still have them (Asahi-Pentax, about $170-200, 1987-88 dollars).

But I didn't buy them based on price at all. I chose them based on clarity, brightness, resolution, ease of focus, and lack of eyestrain and/or colour distortion.

It was two weeks of Hell for me and the stores but, rightly or wrongly, it taught me that looking through the actual glasses at the intended normal distance of use in typical OUTDOOR lighting is far better for me than shopping by brand, model, price, or reputation.

Same type of experience here. I was wasteing time while wife was in a shoe store. Went into a Wild Birds Unlimited just to see what was in there. They had about a dozen different brands of binos, from moderately cheap to expensive as hell. They had a place you could take them all outside on a patio and try them all. I ended up buying a pair of Celestrons, they also make telescopes for looking at the moon and stars.

I recently bought a pair of Leicas. Honestly the Leicas are not that much better than the Celestrons. The Leicas were more than twice the price also.

When you can compare side by side, you sometimes find something you weren't expecting. Kinda like guns, whisky, women and other things.

Good optical glass is cheap these days, so there's no trick to making a telescope (or two of them side-by-side) which transmits a good image with good resolution.

The challenge for binocular makers is to get the physical part right, which is why two seemingly identical binos from the same manufacturer on the same shelf may vary greatly in how your eyes perceive them. This is especially true with lower-cost instruments since the manufacturer can't afford to take as much care in their assembly. As a result, one will perform great and the other makes you crosseyed.

The most overlooked factor in binocular performance is collimation -- making sure that the two telescopes point in the same direction. As simple as this sounds, it's not easy to achieve, especially with center-focus mechanisms which involve a moving cam along a hinge point. Another factor is the precise placement of the prisms. Getting them just a fraction of a MM too close or too far from the lenses, or setting their angle at just a fraction of a degree off of perfect really degrades a bino's performance.

The best bargain you'll ever find in a bino is a "cheap" model on which everything accidentally turned out right. The worst screwing is on an expensive one that didn't get assembled quite right. Your odds are better with the more expensive one, but you can get ringers or lemons in either.

Yep, Stoney, thanks to very high-tech computerized grinding and coating, good lenses are a real bargain today compared to two or three decades ago. I just looked up today's copy of the exact same model Asahi-Pentax binoculars I described in my post above...and they are still selling for the same price they were back then.

(That is in actual dollar numbers. In earning power or work hours required to pay for them, that means they are at least 75% cheaper now than they were then. How many things can one say that about, other than small electronics?)


Anyway, you are also right about collimation. Nothing is more important in preventing eyestrain for those who's hunting methods may involve periods of prolonged viewing. Poor collimation can not only reduce visual acuity, but it can produce bad headaches in some extended viewing instances.

And that's why I always try to not buy binoculars through the mail. NOTHING works as well as looking through them before buying.

Folks living in rural areas may not have a choice and may have to buy through the mail. But for me, it is worth postponing a purchase until I am where I can test them out while combining buying binoculars with some other sort of trip...either business or vacation.

Alberta---If you read the history of Asahi Optical you'll find they were a major contributor to 35MM Single Lens Reflex cameras and have numerous refinements they were the first to have. Top of the line all the way. Asahi Pentax if bought overseas and Honeywell Pentax in the states.

I wish I could justify the purchase of some EL's, or Liecas. Maybe even Ziess, but for the cost and the amount of use, cheap bino's make better sense to me.

I usually carry a spotting scope when hunting in open areas I need to evaluate an animal and plan a stalk. Glassing a big area isn't bad with 8x's. I'm just kind-of impressed with how far the quality for the $ has come. Trying them out made a huge difference, and the idea of gambling money on the chance you'll get a good pair mail order isn't appealing at all.

Go to EBAY and you can find Bausch & Lomb that were made in Rochester NY and in my books the best buy in optics. You'll see a lot of 7x50 that survived ww2 and they are still good. Those are bulky. Sooner or later a pair of Zephyr weights will show up and at any price they are hard to beat. I bought my 7x35's new back in late 60's and they are as good as ever. I carry 7x50's in my pickup. I also have their 15-60 spotting scope---very clear and durable--but bulky. For binos, get the shoulder harness, lots more comfortable than a strap cutting into your neck.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Go to EBAY and you can find Bausch & Lomb that were made in Rochester NY and in my books the best buy in optics. You'll see a lot of 7x50 that survived ww2 and they are still good. Those are bulky. Sooner or later a pair of Zephyr weights will show up and at any price they are hard to beat. I bought my 7x35's new back in late 60's and they are as good as ever. I carry 7x50's in my pickup. I also have their 15-60 spotting scope---very clear and durable--but bulky. For binos, get the shoulder harness, lots more comfortable than a strap cutting into your neck.

The above is really, really good advice. Just be sure you have return privileges in case they have been damaged by the time you receive them.

During the 1930s, through the 1950s, B&L glass was considered world-wide as one of the three top makers in the entire world. I know a good many ranchers in Montana and the Pac-NW who would still have nothing else for Bino glass in their pickups, even today.

The guys I'm talking about can afford ANY make of glasses, but based on their experiences using their binos for several hours a day sometimes for every day in a given week, they end up sticking with the older B&Ls. They try the big price modern glass and go then go back to their old B&Ls for their combo of high resolution and viewing comfort in all weather.

The older B&Ls made in New York are Hell-for-sturdy, and have absolutely top-quality glass in them....and they were lovingly and meticulously assembled by long-term, highly skilled B&L old-timers.

quote:

Originally posted by BigNate:
I know these don't go together often but I was recently surprised.
My Nikon Monarch 8x42's came up missing. They were pretty good for the money and I'm missing them so went to get another pair. While I'm at the counter I'm looking at the new Monarch 7's and some Luepold BX3. Sales guy handed me some Bushnell Legends. I liked them better than the luepolds, and the Nikons. Go figure.

If you do a search you will find many very good reviews for the Legend Binos and even the lesser Trophys.

I am finding it harder and harder to justify spending on older, outdated optics, even name brand stuff, because todays optics have come so far. But for the same reason there are some very good values on older optics to be had.

I have spent the last several days researching a lot of Binos for a quality, low buck bargian. Lots of great input here;

http://www.cloudynights.com/ub...5/o/all/fpart/1/vc/1


on various, older makes and models. It seems that many "in the know" agree with Carpetman about the old B&L binos. I actualy bid on an older pair of Nikons but didnt get them.

After a whole lot of poking around I eventualy think I found a winner based on what Ive read and what I know about optics from the scopes I have. I ordered a pair of these;

http://www.bushnell.com/huntin...rs/legacy-wp/8x-42mm

Bak4 prisims, FMC glass, waterproof, etc. for $75.00 shipped to my door new..

I have several riflescopes including Weaver, Redfield, Leupold and Bushnell. Some old and some new. Bottom line for me is that the older stuff typically just doesnt compare with new glass.

I have a Redfield 5 star which was one of the best they made before the bottom fell out. $300.00 scope at the time. The glass is fantastic with real good reviews, mine is also in pristine condition, I like it a lot. But I also have a china made Banner scope which is probably only about a $80.00 scope new that compares very well. ( I know, Banner made in China, Yech! Until I tried it!)
My Legend scope (was $125.00 new) is simply better optics than the Redfield hands down. This goes for my Weavers and even a VariX Leupold as well. The Leupold compares pretty well with the Legend, but I give the Legend higher marks for optics than that one as well.

I will report on the binos later. But they got excellent reviews everywhere I checked, and the features are excellent for the price.

Another deciding factor for me was the fact that buying used can be such a crap shoot and can be difficult to get little things like caps and a decent case.

Another point of intrest, from the "cloudynights" link, I also found some of the older, more obscure, Japanese glass they talked very highly about for as low as $25.00 on flea-bay. That might be the way to go for a decent pair of beater glass or ??

This may also be of intrest reguarding the subject. I have an older 20X Kowa spotting scope that my brother brought home from Japan in the 70's. It was top of the line at the time, but is pretty dated now and probably needs a good professional cleaning. I recently found an old 32 power Bushnell sentry II that looks nearly identical to the old Kowa. They were both made in Japan about the same time, but the Sentry II was still in the box! It has never been used. The only difference in appearance is that the Kowa has steel caps whereas the Sentry has bakelite caps and the Kowa has a sliding sunshade. Otherwise they look like they came off the same assembly line.

Anyway, the point is that the Kowa is now difficult to get a real good sharp focus, the unused Sentry burys it for definition and sharpness! Im sure the glass and coatings are technically very similar, if not identical, but the Kowa has that tired factor. Case in point, sometimes overall condition can trump name brand. Especialy when you're talking older, used stuff.

FWIW. Those old Sentry II's were also employed by the US military back in the day.

Interesting story on Kowa. Back in the late 60's- early 70's my uncle picked up a couple of Kowa scopes at a navy PX someplace in the Pacific, brought them home and gave them to me. The label on the 4x looked like it was stuck on the scope so I pealed it off and it said Bushnell underneath. Still have both scopes and use them occasionally.
C.G.B.

I have had very good luck ordering Bausch & Lomb scopes and binoculars off EBAY and they arrive as described. Those old B&L New York made are just Mac truck tough. If defective you do have protection under EBAY.

I have recieved the Legacy-WP Binos and they did not dissapoint. I dont really have a lot to go by as they are probably the best binos Ive ever had. But the eye relief is easily enough to use with a pair of glasses on, the FOV is the widest I have ever used on a pair of binocs. Far superior in every way to several older japanese made models Ive used over the years. They seem solidly built. The strap loops are recessed which is kind of odd, and the case leaves a lot to be desired.

Overall the optical quality seems excellent to me and for $75.00 delivered to my door, I would absoloutly reccomend them as a good bang for the buck..

There are still some porro prism binoculars to be had. Their ability to retrieve a 3 dimensional image is superior to a roof prism. Given equal quality glass, the porro prism unit will be half the price. The porro prism units kind of have a retro-cool look to them as well.

quote:

There are still some porro prism binoculars to be had. Their ability to retrieve a 3 dimensional image is superior to a roof prism. Given equal quality glass, the porro prism unit will be half the price. The porro prism units kind of have a retro-cool look to them as well.

Pentax is making several good models for a low price.

LWD