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Entry Level Long Range Mildot Scope
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted
What brand would you buy if you wanted reasonable quality and to be able to shoot out to say 600-700 yards.

Also at what distance do you start to need a scope mount with MOA taper in it.


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10164 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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I'm not sure what your idea of reasonable quality is, but from what I've read at a couple of different boards is that Mueller scopes are the best of the "entry level" scopes.

Not sure of your price range but you can get their 8.5-25X44 tactical scope for around $160.

In regards to the necessity of an MOA taper, that will be determined by two things;

1) The amount of internal adjustment a particular scope has, and they are different, and

2) The amount of drop of the load you're shooting.

What bullet are you shooting and at what velocity?

If you're shooting a .308 with a 175MK at 2700 fps, you'll need a scope with around 38 minutes of "up" adjustment to reach 1000 yards. Some scopes won't make that without a tapered base, some will.

If you shoot a 6mm 115 DTAC at 2960 fps, you'll only need around 25 minutes of "up" adjustment to reach 1000, much less for 700yards. Most scopes have that, obviating the tapered base.

You might also look at Super Sniper scopes from SWFA. They have a fine reputation for good glass and repeatable adjustments.
 
Posts: 28 | Location: Wherever I find myself | Registered: 05 December 2006Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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This would be a 300 WSM shooting 173 grn match bullets.

I saw the Burris's on sale for about 300 with a ballistic reticle.

Anybody have an opinion on these


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10164 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Mike,

I've been going through the same process...What I've found is that the "best buy" in each of the following categories are.

1) $1,000 up - NightForce
2) $500-$999 - Leupold Mark 4
3) Under $500 - SWFA Super Sniper

Hope this helps,


Bruz

"Honor,Courage and Character"

NRA Lifetime Member
 
Posts: 342 | Location: Jawja | Registered: 20 December 2006Reply With Quote
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Picture of cheaptrick
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Posts: 238 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 08 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted Hide Post
What do you gys think of this...

Fullfield II 4.5-14X 42mm (AO) Matte (Ballistic Plex)
BUR200183 -SPECIAL- $309


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10164 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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What are you doing w/ this rig?

Punching paper at known range? Going to parts unkown to shoot at unknown range? Varmints? What?

You can take a good fixed scope w/ a non-mildot reticle and accurately place small groups a hell of a long ways if the windage and elevations adjustments are repeatable. If you're shooting paper at known range or varmints at estimated ranges, you don't need ranging abilities or drop compensation built into the reticle.

GVA
 
Posts: 1190 | Registered: 11 April 2004Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted Hide Post
This a..."How far is that coyote?"

"Laser says he is 480 yds."

"Okay...hold the 500 yd indicator on the lower third...squeez...boob...sszzzzzz...whap!...dead puppy."


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10164 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of cheaptrick
posted Hide Post
http://www.swfa.com/pc-6849-218-nikon-35-10x50-monarch-ucc-riflescope.aspx

This is a buy.
Monarch with BDC reticle.
I haven't used one, but they have had some good reviews from those that have.
You would have to dick around with your caliber/ammo to find the sweet spot.

Never used the Burris.


cheaptrick.....out!!
 
Posts: 238 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 08 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Most features with a lifetime warranty

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/38974-54213-1513.html
 
Posts: 257 | Location: The Greatest Country on Earth! | Registered: 04 October 2006Reply With Quote
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Posts: 257 | Location: The Greatest Country on Earth! | Registered: 04 October 2006Reply With Quote
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$175
Bushnell 10x40 Elite 3200 Rifle Scope




http://www.swfa.com/pc-8352-184-bushnell-10x40-elite-3200-rifle-scope.aspx
I don't have one, but a friend sells them, and they work.
Looking through them and turning the knobs, if I didn't know, I would think they should cost $300 and not $175.

---------------------------------

I have a Super Sniper, and it is just ok for $300.
---------------------------------
I have Burris Fullfield II and they are just ok.
------------------------------------
My Burris Signature and my Leupold mk IV are great.
-------------------------------------
I don't own one, but I have spent allot of time looking trough Nightforce scopes that are not mounted on a rifle.
I always get the same impression, "This would be a good scope if I were shooting 1000 yards and did not have to carry it far from the car, because it is HEAVY."
 
Posts: 9043 | Location: on the rock | Registered: 16 July 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of sdeshazo
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I got tired of the cheaper scopes & saved up the money & bought the NightForce NXS 5.5-22x56 for my latest longrange gun a 300 wby mag & have not looked back, what a scope! dancing
 
Posts: 224 | Location: St Augustine, Florida | Registered: 07 April 2006Reply With Quote
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If i were putting a rig together like your writing about, i'd wait until Zeiss gets their RapidZ reticles put in them, but i like direct windage reference in my reticles for LR shooting.


Steve
 
Posts: 926 | Location: pueblo.co | Registered: 03 December 2002Reply With Quote
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A couple of suggestions...

If you decide on the Burris FF2 , get the equivalent Pentax instead . Same scope , but you can buy them online for $250 while the Burris version is usually $300+

For a true mildot scope, Nikon Buckmaster 4x14SF , around $250 online . They have low profile turrets that are resettable to zero .


For a little more $350 to 400 , Nikon has the new line of Monarchs coming out shortly . Several have SF , mildots and or the BDC reticle .
 
Posts: 1660 | Location: Gary , SD | Registered: 05 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Mike
The easierst scope to hit with at long range is one with a Ballistic Cam.

I think you are better off to get a good quality scope up front, buy it once and be done with it.

I have had good luck with my Leupold 3.5-10 Long range MK4.
I have one on my 300 win mag Blaser R 93.

Last time I had it at 400 yards I could hit a coke can. At 535 yards I could hit a chest sized plate.


DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY
 
Posts: 16134 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 April 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Mike
The easierst scope to hit with at long range is one with a Ballistic Cam.

I think you are better off to get a good quality scope up front, buy it once and be done with it.

I have had good luck with my Leupold 3.5-10 Long range MK4.
I have one on my 300 win mag Blaser R 93.

Last time I had it at 400 yards I could hit a coke can. At 535 yards I could hit a chest sized plate.



Come back when you can hit an egg at 600 yards!
 
Posts: 257 | Location: The Greatest Country on Earth! | Registered: 04 October 2006Reply With Quote
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Scudrunner
What is your egg rifle, ammo, and scope combo?


DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY
 
Posts: 16134 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 April 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted Hide Post
Scudrunner,

If it looks to good to be true it usually is.

I'll pass on the ebay scopes.


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10164 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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