First I'll start with a little background info. I have a Remington model 700 .270 that had an older Phillipines made Simmons Pro-Hunter 6-18x40 AO scope which served me well for many years. Recently the plug on the power adjustment ring came loose and caused the nitrogen gas charge to leak out. No big deal I thought, I'll just send it back to Simmons to have it recharged. WRONG! After waiting for close to two months I finally called them and they informed me my scope was broken and unrepairable. Funny, it was in perfect working order when I sent it in (postage insured) just minus the nitrogen. So they told me they will be sending a replacement but its currently on back order. They won't return my old one either since they probably destroyed it already. This whole deal turned me sour on Simmons and I'm done with them.
So...I'm looking for a new scope to replace the one they stole from me. I really like the Nikon Monarch 6.5-20x44 so thats what I'm leaning toward. I would like to install the Nikon on my new Remington 700 .223 and use the existing scope from that rifle to replace the stolen one from the .270. My question is regarding the BDC (Bullet Drop Compensator) reticle. This is primarily a target rifle and although I haven't shot it much yet I would like to experiment out to 300 yards or better with my handloads. How accurate is the BDC reticle in these scopes with regard to bullet drop? I prefer the standard Niko Plex, but if the BDC will be a benefit for target shooting out past 100 yards then thats great.

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4028&KW=nikon+bdc

The Nikon BDC will be my next scope reticle too.

The 6.5-20x44mm I have is very nice.
I have the illuminated Mil Dot version.

Hope this helps.

Here's a pic of my Remington with the Nikon and TPS medium rings.
I have since switched to low TPS rings.
Better cheekweld.

Sweet setup you have there. What size is that rifle? My main concern with the BDC reticle is how much of the target the circles will cover. I've never looked through one and nobody near me sells them so I'm not sure how heavy the reticle is. I don't want it obstructing my view of the target, but I don't think it will be a problem. I've always shot with the standard plex reticles but I would like to experiment with longer ranges out past 200 yards and this might be benefical. I know Leupold can switch reticles, can Nikon do the same thing if I'm not happy with it?

I don't believe you can change Nikon reticles, but I may be wrong.

The BDC reticle allowed some shooters in the link to bust shaving cream cans at 200 yards.
I like the looks of it personally.

I'll probably wait for the New Monarch this summer in a 4-16x and get the BDC reticle.

The rifle is a .308 Remington LHVS.
Thanks for the compliment.

The fine lines in the BDC reticle measure (subtend) 1/4" per hundred yards (IPHY), and the "holes" have a diameter of 1.5 IPHY. It's a "generic" bullet drop compensating reticle just like the rest of the ballistic or trajectory compensating reticles like Burris Ball. Plex, Ball. Mil-Dot, Leupold VH, B&C, etc. The reticle probably will not match up to the trajectory of your load perfectly at even 100 yd. intervals regardless whether you sight in for 100, or 200 yds. or whatever range. But it'll probably be close, and with a little manipulation can be applied very accurately, even the interpolative system for the in-between ranges. Here's a link that may help some--

www.ottllc.com/specialtypistols/sp20.pdf

Also take a look at the Burris Tech. Notes regarding their BDC reticles, as the info they provide is not specific to just their reticles.
www.burrisoptics.com

Rowdy,

DON'T GET CAUGHT IN THE SIMMONS BACKORDER BS!!!!

I have been waiting for 'another 60 days' for two scope replacements from Simmons, since May 2006!!!!!

I finally called them again, as I was supposed to have them by Mid January.. same thing, still backordered...

I talked the Customer service rep at Meade Optics, who now own them, and finally told them I have been waiting long enough!!!

I told them that evidently since the Simmons replacements were pipe dreams... that I wanted a Weaver replacement instead... I told them I wanted a V 16 and a V24 for replacement instead...

They pointed out a price difference, and I pointed out, "waiting for 6 to 8 weeks" since last May, and that should more than take care of any price differences... they agreed to give me the two V 16 and V 24 Weavers for the two Weavers I have been waiting on...

I have a 4.5 x 14 Buckmaster with the Mil dot reticle, and one with the BDC reticle... I love both.. I am saving for a 6 x 18 with the BDC and also plan on getting a couple of the 3 x 9s with the BDC also.. I definitely love them over Burris scopes.. and their ballistic plex...

I bought one not long ago. It's a 3X9 Monark. I haven't used it yet, but one thing I don't like about the Nikon, the leupold B&C and the Kahles American TDS reticle is they use a 2nd plane reticle on these scopes with the bullet drop reticle. IMO this is really a waste of a good idea because the reticle is only good at one set power. In other words if you've got all the hash marks figured out at 9X they are worthless at 6X or any other power. If they would have only used a 1st plane reticle the scope would be good at all powers.

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
Rowdy,

DON'T GET CAUGHT IN THE SIMMONS BACKORDER BS!!!!

I have been waiting for 'another 60 days' for two scope replacements from Simmons, since May 2006!!!!!

I finally called them again, as I was supposed to have them by Mid January.. same thing, still backordered...

I talked the Customer service rep at Meade Optics, who now own them, and finally told them I have been waiting long enough!!!

I told them that evidently since the Simmons replacements were pipe dreams... that I wanted a Weaver replacement instead... I told them I wanted a V 16 and a V24 for replacement instead...

They pointed out a price difference, and I pointed out, "waiting for 6 to 8 weeks" since last May, and that should more than take care of any price differences... they agreed to give me the two V 16 and V 24 Weavers for the two Weavers I have been waiting on...

I have a 4.5 x 14 Buckmaster with the Mil dot reticle, and one with the BDC reticle... I love both.. I am saving for a 6 x 18 with the BDC and also plan on getting a couple of the 3 x 9s with the BDC also.. I definitely love them over Burris scopes.. and their ballistic plex...

I'm totally fed up with Simmons. The scope had a very minor problem, all that was wrong was the gas charge leaked out. I continued to use it anyway but decided since this is a hunting rifle I don't want it fogging up at the wrong moment so I sent it in. Had I known this was going to happen I would have kept it. I packed it tightly with styrofoam peanuts in a strong box so its highly unlikely anything was damaged during shipping. I don't see how they can call themselves a repair facility when they can't handle a task as simple as replacing a few O-rings and recharging it with gas.
I went ahead and ordered the Nikon Monarch 6.5-20x44 with the BDC reticle last night from swfa.com. They had a really good price on it, $349 plus shipping. Any time I shoot past 100 yards I'm most likely going to have it set at full power anyway, so I'm not worried about the compensator varying at different power levels. I've read other complaints about Simmons service on another message board. I'm going to keep after them to send me a replacement since they won't return my old one. If and when they do I'm selling it because I want nothing more to do with that company.

quote:

My main concern with the BDC reticle is how much of the target the circles will cover.

I just purchased a new Monarch with the BDC reticle myself. I got the 4-12x40. Went to the range with it about a week ago for the first time and it seems to be great for a big game set-up, but it's no target scope by any means IMO.

The reticle covers a good bit of the target, too much for precise aiming as that of a target reticle or fine duplex. It does work just fine for a hunting rifle scope IMO. The circles take up a good bit of the target as well which should be fine for placing on the vital portion of deer sized game.

I do believe I will be pleased with it on the hunting rifle I mounted it on but, the Nikoplex and Fine Xhair they offer are better choices for Target work IMO.

Good Luck

Reloader

Reloader

quote:

Originally posted by Reloader:

quote:

My main concern with the BDC reticle is how much of the target the circles will cover.

I just purchased a new Monarch with the BDC reticle myself. I got the 4-12x40. Went to the range with it about a week ago for the first time and it seems to be great for a big game set-up, but it's no target scope by any means IMO.

The reticle covers a good bit of the target, too much for precise aiming as that of a target reticle or fine duplex. It does work just fine for a hunting rifle scope IMO. The circles take up a good bit of the target as well which should be fine for placing on the vital portion of deer sized game.

I do believe I will be pleased with it on the hunting rifle I mounted it on but, the Nikoplex and Fine Xhair they offer are better choices for Target work IMO.

Good Luck

Reloader

Reloader

Point well taken. The more I thought about it the more I wondered if I had made the right choice. I've always liked the standard duplex type reticles, its what I learned to shoot with and what I'm most comfortable using. I like zooming in for the fine details on the target and I was concerned the circles would be obstructive. The place I ordered the scope from informed me they were on backorder, so I went ahead and cancelled that order. I found a new Monarch 6.5-20 with the Nikoplex reticle, sunshade included on ebay for just slightly more than what the BDC model cost and won the auction today, so I should hopefully have it next week. Thanks

Rowdyredneck,

I wasn't trying to sway you from purchasing the scope but, I do feel you made a wise decision since you said you were into finding small details on target. I feel the same.

On a rifle that I will primarily shoot at targets or small game, I like the subtensions to be small on the reticles.

I haven't really studied them much but it seems like the Leupold varmint reticle they came out with a short time back would be nice. It appears to have small subtensions but, I haven't researched it to see exactly what they are.

I will say that I've liked the Leupold fine duplex for quite a while on target work. I just bought a FD 6-18x40 VXII last summer and it has been nice at the range.

I think you'll be happy with the Nikoplex. I have it on three heavy barrel rigs. One is the 5.5-16.5x44 Monarch and the other two are the new 6-18x40SF BMs with Niko Plex. They all three work well on targets.

Good Luck

Reloader

I actually had my doubts all along. Its my understanding the BDC was developed as a hunting reticle, and the more I thought about it the less I liked the idea of having those circles obstructing my view when I'm going for MOA accuracy. I think I made the right choice, I'm looking forward to getting it so I can try it out.

I just ordered my second Nikon Monarch from SWFA.
First one with plain Nikoplex in 6.5-20X and I love it.
I called in today to buy another one, 5.5-16X and the price is the same for Nikoplex or BDC.
I chose Nikoplex.
I just don't feel the need and really, don't like the clutter.
Most of my rifles are 1" high at 100, which will take care of any shot I will make, not using bags.
I do have a Burris with ballistic plex and like the scope but have never used the ranging feature.
I LOVE the Monarchs.
I compared to Burris, Leupy III, Bushnell 4200 and Zeiss Conquest, and kept going back to the Monarch.
Much larger eyebox than any of the others.
I cannot understand why people pay Leupold prices.
BTW I wanted to buy the Bushnell 4200 when I started but the Monarch stole me away.
Also, Natchez and MidSouth had a few Monarchs even cheaper than SWFA, but they've been good to me so I bought there.

It just arrived yesterday. I can't beleive how fast it came, I won the ebay auction Wendsday afternoon and it arrived here in northern Iowa from Oklahoma already. So far I'm very impressed with the image quality. I have a Leupold VX-III as well and I can't really notice any difference, both scopes have a bright, clear image.
We're stuck right in the middle of a major snow storm right now so all I can do is mount it and wait for better weather before I can try it out.

Rowdy,

keep us informed on how it works out...

I am using the ballistic plex for varmint shooting, not target work..

I agree with Reloader.. for that type of stuff, I prefer a target dot, or a fine plex... I like Leupold's fine cross hairs that taper down...

these are really quality scopes...

even the lower Buckmasters are just fine in my book.....

TC1,

Are there any riflescope that offer bullet drop compensating reticle in the 1st plane?

quote:

Originally posted by Norseman:

Are there any riflescope that offer bullet drop compensating reticle in the 1st plane?

The Swarovski PV's with the plex TDS reticle.
PV socpes

IOR, US Optics, S&B to name a few.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
Rowdy,

DON'T GET CAUGHT IN THE SIMMONS BACKORDER BS!!!!

I have been waiting for 'another 60 days' for two scope replacements from Simmons, since May 2006!!!!!

I finally called them again, as I was supposed to have them by Mid January.. same thing, still backordered...

I talked the Customer service rep at Meade Optics, who now own them, and finally told them I have been waiting long enough!!!

I told them that evidently since the Simmons replacements were pipe dreams... that I wanted a Weaver replacement instead... I told them I wanted a V 16 and a V24 for replacement instead...

They pointed out a price difference, and I pointed out, "waiting for 6 to 8 weeks" since last May, and that should more than take care of any price differences... they agreed to give me the two V 16 and V 24 Weavers for the two Weavers I have been waiting on...

I have a 4.5 x 14 Buckmaster with the Mil dot reticle, and one with the BDC reticle... I love both.. I am saving for a 6 x 18 with the BDC and also plan on getting a couple of the 3 x 9s with the BDC also.. I definitely love them over Burris scopes.. and their ballistic plex...

+1

I sent a 3.8x-12x in to them because the bell had come apart....After 1.5 months I called and got the run around. I was told that they were on backorder yadda yadda yadda So I picked out a Weaver Grand Slam in 4x-14x and they sent it as a replacement.......Next Day Air. I then sold it and bought a Zeiss.

When you call ask for Cory Foy...He's from Georgia and the only one there who knows anything about scopes...He was the manager before they closed the Ga location.

I'm still VERY frustrated with Simmons. Its been over three months now and I still have nothing. They cashed my $10 check for return shipping as well. The only time I have a chance to call them is on my lunch break at work. I tried calling today but finally gave up after waiting on hold for over half an hour. I don't even want a replacement, I would rather save the hassle and get a refund for my $10 plus a check for the retail value of the replacement scope they say is back ordered. I'll NEVER buy another product from Simmons or their parent company Meade.
So far I love the Nikon. I haven't had much shooting time with it as other issues have been taking up my free time but hopefully I'll get a good shooting session in soon.