Dear all

Can anyone tell me how this can be-

I have a S&B 3-12x50 Precision Hunter mounted on my Remi 700 XCR in 7mm Mag and regardless of whether it is in Talleys or Leupold DDT's I am maxed out on elevation when zero'd at 100 yards.

Is this an issue with the action? I know the scope is fine as when I mount it on any of my Sako's it is more or less centered (elevation wise).

Is there a remedy to this other than mounting an inclined base and or Signature rings?

Has anyone else experienced this with their Remi?

Thanks

JB

Not all receivers (or bases) are as straight as they are supposed to be. Most likely, you ran into either a receiver or a mount (base/rings) which is out of spec. Remedy: have a good smith fix you up - e.g. redrill and tap mount holes or bed bases. Shimming is also possible in certain instances, it depends what the exact problem is.

- mike

25 years ago I bought a Remington 700 Varmint cal 308W; the chamber was off center and the scope windage was almost not adjustable due to the bad alignement of the scope mount holes; definitely a lemon. I had to have a custom barrel installed and the scope mounts altered. Of course I've never bought another Rem. rifle since and never will I in the future.

Thanks both for your comments.

mho I was leaning towards the option of taking it to a good smith to see what could be done. The easy remedy would be to install a 20 MOA base but I was hoping to use my Talleys really if possible. The other option is signatures but again I was hoping to get away with using what I already have and have the reciever made good somehow to accommodate the Talleys.

I will see what the verdict is from my rifle smith I use. The frustration is that this rifle shoots amazingly well (.5 or less) but I feel there has been an issue somewhere in production that the reciever has not been machined 100% correctly.

Thanks again

JB

Hey Jon, a couple of things come to mind, first, it sounds like it's gotta be the receiver since it occurs with two different types of mounts. Second, I could contact Talley for you, and see if they could mill a base that gave you some elevation, by having a slightly higher rear base...I know you are in England, but if they can do it, I am actually a Talley Dealer, so I would be glad to get one to you if they can do it.

Another thing that could be completely retarded, but I will ask as well, would be to maybe try a low ring on the front and a medium on the back--may be way to much differential, and put too much torque on the tube--but it just popped into my head....

I think the most technically correct way would be to check the receiver and see where it is out of square, of course you could buy something like a Badger Ordinance rail with X amount of minutes built into it, I know you can get 20 and 30 minute bases from them, if you have your receiver worked on I would have new base mount holes drilled/retapped if necessary...if you go that route, I would definitely go to 8x40 thread screws if they aren't there already...The Badger Ordinance stuff is hell for stout by the way....

Good luck on it whichever way you go!

Hello there Don - very nice to hear from you.

As ever thank you for your offer of help here.

You have given me something to definitely consider here with regards to the Talleys and that is something I was thinking was a possibility potentially.

Yes it must be the reciever which is out of kilter and I do have an EGW 20 MOA base and Badger rings as a fix but was hoping to have it looking a bit more sporter like as opposed to tactical but it is not a massive deal really I suppose.

I will have a think about what you have said and again thanks.

Best

JB

Hello,
If I understand you correctly, at 100yds. you have maxed out your elevation and for that to happen is most unusual. For most scopes it will take some 10-15moa adjustment from bottom to zero the scope at 100yds and not sure how much elevation range your particular scope has but safe bet would be at least 60moa(check the specs on your scope and it will state the available elevation and windage adjustment.) That would leave you some 45moa remaining and in your caliber would be enough to take you to 1000yds. Yes, it is possible that the receiver is out of spec., but of the possible problems that is the least likely one to happen. You have something not correct in your mounting system. Rear bridge of your receiver is lower in height than the front receiver ring and it is impossible to reverse bases, front on rear and vice versa for the hole spacing is different;however, you will also note that the base of the ring(front and back) itself is different in height and possible to have those reversed???? Quick check would be to remove scope from rings, mount rings, place rifle on level plane, lay a straight edge, rod, etc. through the rings and check if it appears to be level. You can use bubble level to make sure the rifle is level and then also place bubble level on rod laying in the rings to double check.
Back to your optics, turn the elevation drum/knob down to bottom, then count the clicks/marks to top and whether your scope is 1/4 minute of angle or 1/2 you will know how much elevation you have available. 60 moa would give you some 240 clicks if 1/4, 120 for 1/2, 1 moa 60, etc. Can't imagine why on a sporting rifle, but if you wish to be able to gain more elevation without the elevated rail set up, Burris offers a set of rings which have inserts providing various increments of elevation and are a decent quality piece of equipment, not military grade or of highest quality, but they are ok and work. Would be interested in hearing the results or just what you find the problem is with your set up. Good Luck.

Thanks MFD

Talleys and Leupolds have been mounted correctly i.e. the correct way round. I agree it does seem strange that the reciever could be so far out.

Would a possible fix to this be to have the reciever re-threaded or rather have the action trued up?

It seems to me that the action is actually flat but obviously at an angle and in actual fact a reverse incline angle to the incline of a 20 MOA base. I know the reciever is flat so to speak as I have a lapping kit which includes the 2 x 30mmm bar which are turned down at each end and they meet perfectly as they should do in the middle with either the Talleys or the Leups on. This leads me to think that the barrel has been fitted at an angle or you could even say the reciever has or whatever. Do you think that is possible? It is a real weird one.

Thanks

I think you are referring to two pointed cones and both points are lining up, is that correct??
I assume you are using these to check if the rings are in alignment or centered if you will.
I don't recall you saying that the rifle has been rebarreled and your scope rings must be on the same plane, higher elevation, as the bore/barrel. It is possible if the rifle has been rebarreled that the person doing it would not have the bore in true axial alignment, but would be most unusual for someone who claims to be a 'smith??? Stranger things have happened and it is possible that the receiver is out of spec, but again I find that a remote possibility. Are you sure the bases for the rifle are truly for a Rem. 700 action?? A few thousands difference would contribute to you situation. I would double check to see if the bases are of the right spec, but perhaps you have already done so. You have quality optics and pretty much discount it being the culprit, but again, things happen. Sorry can't be much help to you, but would advise take it to a quality gunsmith and have him check it out is about the best advise I can give at this time.
Let us know what you find out.

Sorry MFD just to confirm my Remi has not been re-barreled. I thought the mis alignment situation could have happened at the factory. I haven't double checked the bases/mounts other than removed them from the packaging which confirms what they are to be used for. I think if this was the issue i.e. wrong mounts it would have been an obvious issue to me but I suppose never say never.

By the way, tes, I was referring to the two pointed cones.

Thanks again.

Jon, I can assure you that it is not uncommon for a factory remmy to have such a misalignment. It is typically the receiver face not being square in relation to the plane of the top of the receier.

A 'square' action should have the face of the receiver perpindicular to the centerline of the bolt raceways/bolt alignment, and the top of tha action should be aligned parallel to that centerline. (actually aligned such that the elevation is enough to have an approximate intersection with the barrel centerline at 200 or so yards--so not actually parallel)

The differences in receiver designs such as the elveation of the rear and front scope mount provisions (i.e. holes or dovetails) vary, and this is why the scope mount mfgs. have varying bases, designed to give 'proper alignment' vertically. I know that Talley receives specs form rifle mfgs on their receivers, and then manufactures rings to match up to those specs.

I would definitely go to custom milled bases if truing up the action didn't fix the issue, or probably just trade the gun before all that if I didn't love it....in fact, if the gun is shooting well, it may be easier (and probably cheaper) to obtain custom bases that will fit your Talley rings milled by a smith to compensate.

Suffice it to say that this is not that rare, but is surely a pain in the ass! Your rings being true with each other (aligned) would confirm nothing more than the plane that is the top of the reciever, is itself in spec-flat if you will--the inclination or declination of that plane though is almost certainly not square to the face of the receiver--or vice-versa

Good Luck, let us know how it comes out!

Thanks Don

I think I have found what I am looking for in terms of rings. I have come across DNZ one piece mounts and they are (within the next 6 weeks or so) making a medium height mount with in built incline (20 MOA) so that will sort it.

The rifle is a shooter so I do not want to off load it but I would, just out of curiousty, like to know where the issue lies.

Anyway I will let you know how I get on.

Thanks

Jon

Jon2 says,

quote:

This leads me to think that the barrel has been fitted at an angle or you could even say the receiver has or whatever. Do you think that is possible? It is a real weird one.

Yes, Jon, it is certainly possible that the barrel thread in the receiver has been machined in at an angle. I remember reading in these pages a while back about someone's rifle having the barrel out of straight by either six minutes of angle at 100 yards or .060 inches from receiver to muzzle. Either way, that's unacceptable. If your receiver was not chucked into the lathe and bought to centre within .001 inches, you'll have problems in the finished product. See if you can't trace the serial number backwards to on which day the receiver was machined. If it was done on a Monday (machinist came in hung over) or a Friday (thinkin' about gettin' loaded for the weekend), you're screwed...