O.K... I'm a conventional guy. I've never owned an illuminated scope before, but I'm considering one for an upcoming hunt.

In Zimbabwe, on Gov't areas, one can't hunt with a light, so I need a good twilight scope and secondly, I am cursed with a sinus condition that sometimes makes me cough with little or no warning. So, after lots of discussions while riding around in a safari car, Lou and I have decided that I need to be a bit farther away from a blind than usual.

So, I've found a "leopard tree" about 100 yards from my back porch and have begun comapring scopes to see what would work best in low light... and I found that un-illuminated reticle gets lost in the limbs, etc.

I've also tested a Swarovski PV1 1.24-4 with a lighted circle dot and a Trijicon 1" 1-4x with an amber dot. Both work, but the Swarovski clearly is better (and cost 3x as much). I seem to get about five more minutes with the Swarovski.

I hate big scopes with huge objective lens. They look funny, screw up the balance of the gun and make me think I ought to be in Star Wars or something and when I read about the physics of light transmission and what light the human eye can actually perceive/use, I wonder if a giant lens would be any better at the 4x that the Swarovski provides (at 100 yards, do you need anymore?)..

So, this will be my third leopard hunt with no success to date (at least on a cat). If a big male comes to the bait at dusk, I certainly want to kill it. Buying a $2k Galaxy-Far-Away scope may make that work and it's only a small percentage of the hunt so, if necessary, I'll hold my nose and put a 50 to 56mm scope with eighteen thousand knobs on a rifle.. but somebody tell me that the I won't do any better than the PV1 1.24-4 Swarovski.

Why not taking the Swarovski Z6 i 1,7-10x42 - it has more light gathering abilities then a 24mm bell...

quote:

Originally posted by scubapro:
Why not taking the Swarovski Z6 i 1,7-10x42 - it has more light gathering abilities then a 24mm bell...

Is this true at 4x. I thought there was a formula that was something like the size of the objective lens divided by the magnification equals ??? and if that's 5, then the human eye doesn't really see more than that regardless if the ratio is higher. i.e., 24mm/4 power is a factor of 6. 42mm/4 power is 10.5, but the eye only can "see" the first 5 .... or something like that.. or am I looking at the wrong tree to bark up?

What about a Trijicon with a larger objective lens like the 3x9x40? And, yes, I believe that your understanding of the "light gathering" calculation is correct.

Here's the formula for computing the exit pupil:

Exit Pupil is the diameter of the shaft of light (expressed in millimeters) that exits a binocular’s eyepiece that can enter through your eye’s pupillary opening. Exit Pupil is calculated by dividing a binocular’s aperture by its magnification, e.g. 42mm / 8x (for an 8x42 binocular) = 5.25mm.

Source: Eagle Optics

With the larger objective lens, i.e. your example, does that mean at 4x (assuming that two scopes are of equal quality) that the bigger objective lens is "wasted", but at a higher magnification, say almost 7x, it's still possible to get the factor of 5 that is all the eye can use, anyway??? In othe words, if all the magnification I want is 4x, then a 24mm objective lens in a quality scope (Swarovski) will be just as good as the same brand with a 50 mm lens at 4x?

Tonight I'm going to compare my IOR Valdada 10x56 scope with an illuminated reticle to the Swarovski. Using your formula, the pupil size should be about the same. Both have quality glass. It will be interesting to see with which I can read a car tag that I put on my leopard limb in my leopard tree. In day time, it's easy to read it with either. I'm sure my neighbors think I'm slap crazy.

There is a maximum useful exit pupil of 5-7 mm and anything above 7mm may not show more brightness but it often improves the "eye box" at the ocular lens.

I'll be very interested in your findings. I'm looking for an answer to the same question - what scope to use for leopard next year. That's why I mentioned the 3x9x40 Trijicon. I hope someone chimes in with experience with it.

See this article on the Shooting Times web site: Advantages of Large Exit Pupil

The Advantages Of A Large Exit Pupil

By Hugh Birnbaum

A significant characteristic of an optical viewing instrument is the diameter of the exit pupil. The exit pupil is the circular patch of image-forming light the instrument presents to your eye. If you point a riflescope toward a brightly lighted wall or a patch of clear sky (but not at the sun!) and position your eye about 10 inches from the eyepiece, along the optical axis, you will see a bright disc of light in the center of the field. That disc is the exit pupil. The larger it is, the brighter the viewing will seem, because more of your eye will be bathed in light.

You can calculate the size of a scope's exit pupil by dividing the effective objective diameter in millimeters by the magnification. For a 4X 32mm hunting scope, divide the 32mm objective size by 4 and you find that the exit pupil is a generous 8mm in diameter. With a 6.5-20X 50mm target/varmint variable scope, the exit pupil ranges from a large 7.7mm at 6.5X to a smallish 2.5mm at 20X. In a low-light situation, all other factors being equal, a lower magnification setting will provide seemingly brighter viewing than a higher one.

It is tempting to conclude that the largest obtainable exit pupil is the most desirable. But that's not always the case. The catch is that the pupil of a normal human eye opens to a maximum diameter of 5mm to 7mm, depending on the individual, even in extremely dark surroundings. Exit-pupil diameters that exceed about 7mm deliver more light than your eye can accept.

On the other hand, large exit pupils offer advantages beyond simply flooding your eye with light. With riflescopes, one of the blessings of a large exit pupil is greater freedom to position the eye with respect to the optical axis. When you must mount the rifle quickly for a now-or-never shot, you don't have the luxury of placing your eye behind the ocular with the exquisite precision a target shooter can lavish on finding the sweet spot of a 2mm or smaller exit pupil. You'll be truly grateful for the chance a large exit pupil gives you to see what you need to see, even if your eye is less than ideally located.

Another benefit of a suitably large exit pupil is the ability to see the scene clearly, without eyestrain. If you compare two scopes of equal optical quality, the one with the larger exit pupil will probably strike you as more preferable. Both will give you the same visual information, but one will make your eye work less.

Having praised generous exit pupils, I must confess that the riflescopes I use most often are fixed-power target models with exit pupils from about 1.1mm to 1.6mm. In daylight ranging from heavy overcast to bright sun they do what I need done.

One cautionary note regarding the exit pupil. There is no correlation between the size of a scope's exit pupil and overall optical quality. Some superb scopes have small exit pupils and some real dogs have very large ones. Exit-pupil calculation is a useful tool in selecting scopes, but it isn't the whole toolbox. You should consider everything and then ultimately believe your own eyes.

Judge G,

If you review the scope comparison in this thread you’ll notice that the Nikon Monarch II 6.5-20X44 AO has virtually the same glass clarity/light transmission as the Swarovski PV-S 6-24X50 P-Sport. Here’s the thread link:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...1421043/m/6511022031

As you’re looking for a small objective lens illuminated reticle at 4X why don’t you check out the Monarch African 1.1-4X24 Illuminated Reticle, price is not bad, here’s the manufacturer’s link:
http://www.nikonsportoptics.co...minated-Reticle.html

Take a look at the Nightforce 2.5x10 x32MM scope. It can be had for about $1200, is tough as nails and doesn't look like a 32 foot ladder on the roof of a Volkswagen. I bought one for my 375 H&H and I think it will be a very versatile scope.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:

quote:

Originally posted by scubapro:
Why not taking the Swarovski Z6 i 1,7-10x42 - it has more light gathering abilities then a 24mm bell...

Is this true at 4x. I thought there was a formula that was something like the size of the objective lens divided by the magnification equals ??? and if that's 5, then the human eye doesn't really see more than that regardless if the ratio is higher. i.e., 24mm/4 power is a factor of 6. 42mm/4 power is 10.5, but the eye only can "see" the first 5 .... or something like that.. or am I looking at the wrong tree to bark up?

well, who says that Your eye pupil is just 5mm? Has Your physician meassured that? -> mine is more than 8mm in diameter -> so I am a born nighhunter... :-) (Having 50mm scopes on all of my guns and sitting even longer then fellows with their 56mm bells (but mostly they use cheap junk and not a Swarovski - the quality of the lenses have a high value at all, which You can´t calculate that easy: for comparrion of "quality": my Swarovski binos EL 8,5x42 (calculated just 5mm exit pupil) have the same night visibility than a Zeiss 8x56 (calculated 7mm exit pupil) - that´s just possibel due to the very very high quality (contrast and sharpness) of the very much smaller Swarovski bino...

I've shot 4 leopards over the years and have spent quite a few evenings (and a few mornings) sitting over baits.

I would not get a "special" scope for leopard. You'll be using it a lot more for other game and to put on a big, special purpose scope is unnecessary. They are heavy, cumbersome and can screw up the balance on a rifle.

The old saw about a scope not being the place where you save money is true. I've used Swaros. On the two cats I shot with .30 caliber rifles, they were 3x9. On the two where I used heavy rifles, they were low power variables. Rarely is high magnification needed, but good glass is.

As for illuminated reticles, it is a matter of personal taste. In leopard hunting the you will be hanging multiple baits. The PH will try to find a branch with as clear a background as possible, even removing some branches if possible.

Leopards are easy to kill and require no special equipment. Bring a good book to the blind. Relax, and enjoy all the sounds.

There seems to be a big difference in attitude between the US and Europe on what constitutes a good scope. Here in Europe shooting at night, or in low light in a forest, is common.

I use an 8X56 S&B and frequently hunt until last legal light. I've shot deer as close as 20 yards with this setup. European quality scope manufacturers make these scopes for a very good reason and as a result of many years of practical use. It is possible to get illuminated versions of the Swaro and the S&B 8X56 scopes and I would suggest you try one before you make up your mind. The Swaro is a lot lighter and has a better FOV and sight picture, the S&B is built like a tank and can be used for personal defence with no damage to the scope.

The other very positive thing about good quality European scopes is that they hold their money. I bought my S&B second hand for £250 and at the minute could probably sell it for more. In view of the money you have in a leopard hunt you could buy a top notch scope for the specific job, shoot your leopard, and sell the scope on your return and get most of the money back.

With that in mind I wouldn't go buying a scope with lots of knobs, I'd buy a good fixed mag European scope from one of the top names and shoot my leopard with it secure in the knowledge that I have the best tool for the job, and that I'm not going to lose much money on it.

Judge: I fully concur with you about the ungainliness of oversized scopes. You are correct that (at your age -- and mine) it is unlikely that your eye pupil will dialate to more than 5mm if you have been a smoker, and perhaps a little more if not. Therefore, if you only wish 4x magnification, than almost any standard fixed scope will provide ample exit pupil.

What hasn't been discussed is that, all things being equal, the larger the image, the easier it is to see (duh!). That is why the Europeans like the 8x for their moonlit hunting. In other words, although that cat is plenty large enough to see at 100 yards when maganified 4 times -- in good light -- he will be somewhat easier to see when magnified 8 times, given adequate exit pupil and other optical qualities.

I've experimented through the years with the ubiquitous Leupold Vari-X II 3-9X and have found that the combination of magnification and exit pupil that provides the best image resolution in moonlight conditions is about 6X-7x, which, with the 40mm objective yields about a 5.7-6.6mm exit pupil. I suspect that this same power range would be optimal in almost any 40mm scope. Therefore, my advice is, regardless of the scope brand or type you choose, dial the magnification up to the point that your have an exit pupil in approximately this range. For a 36mm 2.5-8 variable, this would be about 6x, for a 2-7 32mm variable this would be about 5x, etc.

As to lighted reticles, well they are something of a mixed blessing. To the extent that they project light onto your eye to illuminate the reticle, they also cause the pupil to contract -- WAIT -- that's a bad thing isn't it? Because if your pupil contracts you can't see the target as well! So while the illuminated reticle makes it easier to see the reticle, it ironically makes it harder to see the target. My suggestion is to skip the illuminated reticle and get a very heavy duplex-type reticle. The four heavy posts will point to the center of the crosshairs, which, even if you can't see the fine junction, is easy enough to know where it is simply because it can't be anywhere other than where the big old fat posts point.

Confession: I ain't shot a leopard either in the daylight or the dark. But I have shot a few things in the dark and that's the way I'd go if I were doing it myself. Good luck with your hunt!

P.S. They say that puffing a little weed will open your pupils right up. Whether the potential trade-off between good night vision and good judgement is beneficial is an issue I'll leave to you to decide .

Use a first focal plane scope. You can dial up the magnification to make the reticle easier to see against the animal.

Judge: I used a Leupold 3.5X10 50mm illuminated reticle for my last leopard. (The one in the picture) The illuminated reticle will adjust as to brightness needed. Now I know that you don't like the big assed scopes but. . . . it works. And, you turn it off when you don't need it. Just my 2 centavos worth.

Nice cat. I hope I have a picture of one like it come September!

I've got a Sawrovski 1.24-4x with an illuminated CD reticle. So far, that is the best at defining the numbers/letters on a car tag tacked to a tree at 50 yards behind my house. I'm going to try a couple of others.

That'll work as well. I too, hope you can tag a cat like that one! Best of luck to you, Judge.

Leupold 1.5x5 VX 3 Illum. good, sturdy, nice long eye releif, and good field of view. For $600 cannot be matched, and plenty clear to wack a leopard at 40-60 yards.

If you already have the Swaro-- then your set.

Ed

I've got that Swaro, and the illumination is variable, so I set it very low, and have shot very accuarately with it, and had good target resolution as well....I think you will be fine with your Swaro, just shoot it a little at night before you go.

Good luck, that Leopard UEG posted is a monster--good on ya UEG, and hope you get one like that as well JudgeG

Judge
I am a bit reluctant to add any advise here as I have only looked at one Leopard in a tree but the situation was most enlightening, no pun intended. While in Tanzania we had a medium sized cat climb onto our baited limb shortly before dark. My friend had killed a bigger cat so he elected not to shoot. His rifle had a Swaro scope, If I remember correctly it was 2.5-15 and I'm sure it had a 56mm objective and the swaro version of a Duplex, 4 thick outer lines but the thinner sections carried out much further from the center intersection than any other scope I have used. My rifle in the blind was mounted with the now discontinued Leica 3.5-10 with a 42mm objective and a Std Leupold Med Duplex. We have very few Leopards in Utah so as the cat fed I began looking at the cat while switching from one rifle to the other and comparing the image quality of both scopes as my friend felt he had chosen the perfect Leopard scope for this very occasion. I placed both the Swaro 56mm and the Leica 42mm on the same powers and individually ran through the power range on each scope until it was truly to dark to see the cat through each scope.

Using the Lecia and the std Duplex I could had 6 more minutes in which to shoot the cat that the Swaro. Joe Coogan was the PH in the blind and was as surprised as I was. In short the added Objective size of the Swaro WAS OF NO VALUE and the thinner Duplex faded into the gloom way before the Std Duplex on the Leica at least in this one situation.

I don't believe anything I'm told and half of what I can see.

I'm not surprised to hear that. I had a 56mm Swaro.

Judge

Are you using a Continental double? Will you be hunting other (plains) game.

I have a Heym 88B 9.3x74R with 2 factory QD (Recknagel) Zeiss slotted rail scopes. The first is a Zeiss Diavari VM 3-9x42T. The other is a Zeiss Varipoint (illuninated dot) VM 1.1-4x24T.

Although I have not, as yet, been fortunate enough to kill a leopard, I have felt that this is an ideal setup. At 100 yards, the 4x magnification and 24mm objective may not suffice for you.

I have been a strong believer in European scopes on European guns. Back in the 70's when I was considering ordering a Heym (which I couldn't really afford at that time) with a Leupold scope I was told by the Heym rep. that "you wouldn't put Goodyears on a Bently".

Good luck and please let us know what you settle in on.

Don

I'm a strong beleiver in putting European scopes on E-bay, To each his own though.