I'm looking for some glass to mount on top of a Winchester Model 70 in 338WM. This rifle is going to be for elk and maximum firing distance that I could realistically see myself shooting is 750 yards.

Recommendations?

I've killed all my elk with a 3-9x50 Leupold on a .300wm. Never was a 750 yard shot necessary; not even close. Average distance was between 200-250 yards.

Hope this helps.

Considering the fact that the trajectory of almost all rifle rounds "fall off the table" at somewhere around 350 yards, to prepare for a 750 yard shot is to me, not feasible and borders on irresponsible. Although it is done from time to time, there is just too much that can happen between trigger break and bullet arrival at the target...

I would put a Leupold 3.5-10 on it and go to the woods.

An elk is almost as big as a sheet of plywood, for crying out loud, and their vital area is about a 24" circle. Why would you need anything more than 9-10X?

any scope which would forbid you shooting at an elk at such a ridiculous range

As some hunting ethics group pronounced recently, shooting game at extreme distances, using all the fancy gear that allows it to be feasible, ceases to be hunting and becomes something akin to word I won't use on the internet in case the wrong people or their bots are reading.

That said, Elmer Keith shot a ram at 600 yards with a 338WM and a Weaver K4. His only other assistance was a second, lower, range-finding horizontal crosswire and a friend to spot the shots. Keith was against big scopes because of their weight and susceptibility to bumping (and things have got worse since image-movement came in). He said a 2-7 variable was as big as you should go and I agree. Anything much bigger and you have to get into parallax adjustment, which you will probably forget about when making the shot.

I would think of a 1.5 to 6x Zeiss Diavari Victory (if OpticsPlane still have them for $899) or a similar-sized Swarovski Z6 if you can afford it.

I've had a Leupold 2.5-8 on my 338 WM for years. This fall, just a few weeks before I was leaving on a Nevada elk hunt, I developed problems with that scope, so I replaced it with a scope from a 300 RUM I have. That scope is a Zeiss 4.5-14 with parallax adjustment, and I like that scope on my 338, so I'll probably keep it on that rifle and buy something else to put on the 300 RUM.

Like others here, I'm troubled by your comment about shooting at elk out to 750 yards. I don't know how much elk hunting experience you have, but I have plenty as I've hunted them in every western state (except Washington) as well as Alberta and BC, going clear back to 1974. With that background in elk hunting, I believe that taking shots at that distance are irresponsible. Elk are TOUGH, and shooting them at extreme range is asking for trouble. Instead of sniping at them out of range, how about using some stalking skills and get closer, preferably within 300 yards whenever you can.

A few weeks ago, I killed a big bull in Nevada with my 338. I was shooting 225 grain trophy bonded bearclaws and shot the bull at 325 yards, broadside. The shot felt good, and I heard the bullet hit him. The bull didn't even flinch, just stood there like nothing had happened until he decided to run off. When I was butchering the bull I found that bullet just under the off-side hide. It was perfectly mushroomed and had shattered the scapula into 3 separate pieces, doing tremendous damage. Go back to my comment that the bull didn't even flinch or appear hit in any way. Same caliber and using a high quality bullet at less than 1/2 the distance you propose shooting. Are you really sure you want to shoot at elk out of range?

I use something like a 4x14. I have killed quite a few sheep/goats at 400 and up, longest was 550 on marco polo. I feel naked with anything less than 14 at that distance. I have used the scopes that go up to 20 something. Left too little fov on bottom end for my liking. I have not shot an elk over 250 yds either. So a 2x10 would have worked for me in those situations. But fir sheep goats give me more power!

Hey guys, go easy on Rich! He obviously has no idea what 750 yards is, nor does he have any concept of the rainbow trajectory of a rifle bullet between 300 and 750 yards. He (along with others on this thread) obviously believes that somehow higher magnification compensates for bullet drop (not to mention wind drift). So don't worry about his doing anything "unsportsmanlike" since he won't even come close enough to an elk at 750 yards to spook it with a magazine full of .338's. The danger is that he'll think a 300 yard elk is at 750 yards and put one into its flank.

If an elk doesn't appear large enough to see it well enough to shoot it when magnified 3 times, then it's way too far away to shoot at. Like Doubless only slightly exaggerates, an elk is about the size of a piece of plywood, for cryin' out loud.

As DLS and Stonecreek suggest, trajectory and power become a real problem at long range. I think of that goulish Youtube supposedly showing the longest shot against our common enemy, in which the target is visibly blown off the hill. I don't really believe that - at 2000 yards the 50 BMG bullet would have about as much power left as a howdah pistol at 100.

I spent some time in the Marine Corp and can comfortably shoot 500 yards with open sights but have no need to exercise that skill set in any hunting situation. The question is what scope to put on a 338 win mag., I would be comfortable with a Leupold VX-3 1.5 - 5 x 20. The elk is a large critter and he can be seen plenty good enough at 500 yards with minimal magnification. The cross hair is just a sighting system and the only reason for 10+ magnification is for shooting small critters at long range. You actually need the magnification to see the critter, gofer, wood chuck, crow, coyote, etc...

Just my opinion.

If you are interested in killing at long range take up varmint hunting. There is plenty of critters that need to be eradicated in this world and no one will hold it against you if you make a bad shot but a majestic Elk holds deeper reverence with most true hunters and it is truely offensive to many to see snipers exercising their marksmanship ILO of thier hunting prowess. Sorry... Just speaking some truth.

I practice with my elk rifles out to 800 yards and my bow out to 80 yards but that is to make it achievable to shoot 1/2 that distance. I hunt an area in Co and run into a diehard hunter with a 30-378 Weatherby who works very hard to hone his skills year round with specialized ewuipment and he did kill an elk that far once.......this year he missed a bull 3 times at 400 yards.

Elk are as stated very tough and anyone shooting more then 250 yards in hunting conditions is asking to wound or kill them without recovery unless they have practiced for that extensively. Factor hustling up hill ar elevation to a hurried field rest and a swirling wind like you find in the mountains and even experts can't reliably connect at 1/2 of 750 yards.

Sorry for no answer _ I like a 3-9 conquest on my rifle with the z600 reticule on a 300 wby it goes make it easier to hit steel at long range. Keeping the low end effective is a concern for me at close range - Ive been lucky enough to shoot an::d kill elk between 11 and 330 yards.

I would suggest the leupold VX6 2-12. I agree that 750 yard shot is long. We can and I do watch the guys from gunwerks shoot deer and elk at that range and longer. If you practice and TRAIN for the shot. It is your to choice to make. Don't let all the know it all goad you for it.

quote:

Originally posted by mdvjrp93:
I would suggest the leupold VX6 2-12. I agree that 750 yard shot is long. We can and I do watch the guys from gunwerks shoot deer and elk at that range and longer. If you practice and TRAIN for the shot. It is your to choice to make. Don't let all the know it all goad you for it.

+1. The 2-12 VX6 is superb, and the CDS is almost cheating when the wind cooperates.

A year or so ago when Leupold brought out the VX 6 I posted here about those. But no one had seen them much at that time.

I got a fairly early 2-12 VX 6 Illuminated duplex at that time and tried it out. I really only had Swarovskis and a couple of Leupolds at that time. Since then I have been working my way to all VX-6s. I haven't had one elk hunting but I would highly recommend it . The 2 x 12 really covers a pretty broad spectrum of big game. Next I am going to put the same 2x12 VX 6 on my Win 70 416 Rem Mag.

I'm going to have to try one of those Leupolds with the power range presumably a multiple of six. It will be interesting to see how the Leupold engineers have bent the laws of physics (or rather, what optical compromises they have made) in order to make such a wide power range usable. I suspect that I will find some of the compromises necessary to construct such an optic distracting or otherwise somewhat disadvantageous.

An almost infinite power range is possible, but the greater the range, the more problematic the physical and optical issues become when the instrument is to be used as an optical gunsight.

^^^^

I think if you try it, you will like it.

I am a fan of a 3-9 V on almost all my hunting rifles. It is true that most of the time you simply dont need it, most of the time mine are set at about 4-5X. But as the old cliche goes, better to have it and not need it. And once in a while I do find 9X usefull, mostly when sorting out details in low light situations. My eyes aint what they used to be. Also, in my experience the lower settings on 3X9 scopes work just fine. I personaly see no practical gain in a 2-7 V as opposed to 3-9 V. YMMV. What is the weight difference between the two with modern scopes anyway, an empty magazine vs a loaded one? Whoop-tee-do, who cares?
One thing I will NEVER do again is purchase any AO scope for hunting. It makes about as much sense as hobbeling your ankles to play a basketball game.

The trouble with 4.5-14 and bigger is if hard work and luck reward you and you get that 25 or 30 yard shot in the timber, it is hard to determine shot placement. When the whole field of view is brown hair follicles suddenly panic sets in, is that a shoulder or some part of a hind quarter? 1-6 or 2.5-10. 10x sees a looong way.

quote:

Originally posted by Quintus:
The trouble with 4.5-14 and bigger is if hard work and luck reward you and you get that 25 or 30 yard shot in the timber, it is hard to determine shot placement. When the whole field of view is brown hair follicles suddenly panic sets in, is that a shoulder or some part of a hind quarter? 1-6 or 2.5-10. 10x sees a looong way.

Ha ha! Yes, that's it exactly. This I think is why the Europeans tend to claw mounts. For some reason they used to put 6-powers on their rifles, even for forest hunting. But then when a close shot was needed they had to rip the scope off to see what they were doing.

Leupold 3X9X40 or 3.5X10X40.
That is what I use on all my hunting rifles and have taken shots on Kudu at 480 yards with my 338Win mag for a 1 shot kill.
I have shot pronghorns at 600+ yards with the same scopes on other chambered rifles.

I'm sure you're better and able to get closer than that. My last New Mexico elk was about 200 yds and used a Swarovski 4-12 with no problem 300 weatherby

Not sure what the velocity would be at 750 yards, but I suspect I would be lucky to hit and recover one out of 5 that I shot at that range. You would be shooting elk with what would probably a 38-40 Win. or there abouts.

As to the Capt of our elite Marine corps, I have no doubt he can pop bullseyes at 500 yards at a known distance and a known sight setting with iron sights...I also know he cannot do that with much consistency at 500 yards after climbing a Idaho mountain, sucking air and guessing at the distance across a canyon, and that his front sight will cover up an elk in its natural enviorment pretty much most of the time. Will he get lucky from time to time, well I took those kinds of shots in my mispent cowboy youth and made some and mades some terrible mistakes that took me and others days to correct, and I lost a couple before I figured out it was simply wrong to do it.

An elk is a large target and I like a 3X Leupold or a 2x4 or 1.5x5 varible as Idaho has both thick timber and open hillsides and I do mostly use a .338 Win. these days. I would not shoot beyond 400 yards and only then with ideal circumstances of a rest and a broadside shot.

IMO too many elk are being wounded with shot off legs and gut shots, and folks banging away at extreme distances, too many varibles out yonder can make things go South for even the best of shots. I know some long range hunters locally and they omit the ones the wound, but I know they miss some and if you miss some then you are prone to wound some, go figure.

Know you capability and let maturity be your guide.

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:

quote:

Originally posted by mdvjrp93:
I would suggest the leupold VX6 2-12. I agree that 750 yard shot is long. We can and I do watch the guys from gunwerks shoot deer and elk at that range and longer. If you practice and TRAIN for the shot. It is your to choice to make. Don't let all the know it all goad you for it.

+1. The 2-12 VX6 is superb, and the CDS is almost cheating when the wind cooperates.

I am wondering how does the CDS hold up as far as not moving once the distance is locked in,I have a custom turret and it moves off adjustment very easily , I wish it would lock in some how

I've been very fortunate to take quite a pile of Elk over the years as well as been "there" on a whole bunch more. My choice of equipment is based on hunting Elk in extremely varied terrain in several western states primarily Colorado.
Longest shot on Elk was 450 yards, shortest was about 25-30 yards, most common distance is about 180 yards.
I use a 3.5-10x40 Leupold or a 3-9x40 Leupold on all my Elk rifles. I carry it always on the lowest setting, my dad told me long ago if you jump an animal close you won't have time to turn your scope down but if you see one a long way off you should have time to turn it up.
If you set up a hunting rifle expecting to shoot out to 750 yards (was that a typo by the OP ?) you may not be well equipped for a Bull in thick timber at 25 yards.
My equipment choices are taylored to my hunting style and work for me and my hunting partners. Some people may have another style or objective to Elk hunting that my equipment wouldn't be suitable for and not meet their needs.
Just my opinion.
By the way a .338 Win Mag shooting 225 grain bullets at 2850 fps sighted in 2" high at 100 yards is dead on at 219 yards and -5.6" low at 300 yards.
At 750 yards 115 inches of holdover are required
and 30" of wind drift if a mere 10 mph wind are encountered. Velocity is down to 1949 fps and energy is down to 1897 foot pounds at that range. I think this is comparable to a 30/30 with 170 grain bullets.