A friend sent a couple of pictures of the new zeiss victory v8, riflescopes, they have 36mms. tube, one is a 1.5-14x50, the other 2.5-20x56. Yhey will be available by midyear in europe. There is nothing in their web site yet. I´ll try to post the pictures.

They sound perfect for yuppie-type inexperienced, would-be shooters who have money to burn and for whom bigger is always better. You know them -- the ones who insist on buying "premium" ammunition because it is "more accurate", then go hunting without zeroing their rifle for the different ammunition.

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They sound perfect for yuppie-type inexperienced, would-be shooters who have money to burn and for whom bigger is always better. You know them -- the ones who insist on buying "premium" ammunition because it is "more accurate", then go hunting without zeroing their rifle for the different ammunition.

yes, that and their Range Rover...

I suppose they've got to try to keep up with Valdada, who now have variables with 10x multiples. It's all BS, of course, and Valdada knows it is, as I've pointed out.

I guess it will have to stop when the erector tube reaches the objective

I hope I´ve got the pictures OK. The novelty is the 8x multiple. The price in Europe is going to be about 2700 Euros, I don´t have more specifications. I think it´s their response to the swarowski z6, who´s been dominating this market.

Bet those scopes are going to be heavy...

My favorite Zeiss is still the Conquest 1.8-5.5x38
Here in the east it is all the scope I need. Wish they still made them.

We've got one of those Conquest scopes, JonP, and I like it OK, though it seems over-long for it power range, though I guess some 1.5-6 scopes are just as big.

This new one looks short enough but maybe it's just overfat. I still haven't worked out why they make thicker-and-thicker scopes, but they sure look bulky on slim rifles. Also, I'd hate illumination junk so close on top if I were hunting leopards.

Leupold got wise and has started placing their illumination dials opposite the windage knob.

I,too, prefer scopes with smaller diameter tubes. The only reason to go to larger tubes is to allow extra internal movement of the optics to adjust for long, long range shooting, i.e. >1000m. Scopes on sniper rifles need that. Sniper scopes are cool so it became the fashion.

People who think that larger tubes allow for more light are mistaken. The objective size determines how much light gets in the scope. The number and quality of the lenses and coatings determines how much of that light makes it to your eye. The brightest scope I ever had was an old steel Swarovski 8x 56mm with a 1" (26mm) tube.

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We've got one of those Conquest scopes, JonP, and I like it OK, though it seems over-long for it power range, though I guess some 1.5-6 scopes are just as big.

Length doesn't bother me. I bought two of them when Cabela's was selling them out....at $299.00
Doubt I'll see as good a scope at that price soon.

the longer tubes are easier to get a good eye relief w/o creeping up on your thumb.

Had I been able to get them at that price, JonP, I might have bought two, too. I paid $540 and thought that was a good price.

Thanks, richj, I did not know length governed eye relief but it kinda makes sense. I like long eye relief and it annoys me that one of my favorite old scopes (a short Nickel 1-4x21) has about 120mm ER at 1x but this shortens rapidly to about 80mm at 1.5x and 70mm at 4x. Does this fit into your thoughts on the matter? If so, what do you think some makers have done now to limit the change in eye relief?

I meant that the long tube allows for the scope to be positioned correctly. a short scope may require ugly offset or extension bases and or rings.

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Originally posted by sambarman338:
Had I been able to get them at that price, JonP, I might have bought two, too. I paid $540 and thought that was a good price.

Thanks, richj, I did not know length governed eye relief but it kinda makes sense. I like long eye relief and it annoys me that one of my favorite old scopes (a short Nickel 1-4x21) has about 120mm ER at 1x but this shortens rapidly to about 80mm at 1.5x and 70mm at 4x. Does this fit into your thoughts on the matter? If so, what do you think some makers have done now to limit the change in eye relief?

Why don't some of these European scope companies make a quality compact, lightweight one inch tubed scope???

Say a straight tubed 1 to 5 or 6x, and a 2.5 to 8 or so with a 36mm objective..???

Swarovski still make a 3-6x36 and Schmidt & bender still make a 6x42. nickel AG and Karl kaps both make a 1-4x22 straight tubed scope

http://www.nickel-ag.com and http://www.kaps-optik.de/engli...lfern_1-4x22BA_e.pdf.

But yes agree a 1.5-6 x36 would be wonderful.

Thanks richj,
OK, I see what you mean now, and having struggled to mount a Kahles 2.3-7 on a long Sako action, that makes sense, too.

And yes, N E 450 No 2, I think the Americans have pipped the Continentals in this regard. I just replaced that Kahles with a Nickel 1.5-6x36. All up the fat scope with rail, female dovetail and Optilock base adds at least half an inch height over the old set up with Redfield rings and bases.

These things look like hogs; way too massive for a hunting scope.

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Originally posted by Stonecreek:
They sound perfect for yuppie-type inexperienced, would-be shooters who have money to burn and for whom bigger is always better. You know them -- the ones who insist on buying "premium" ammunition because it is "more accurate", then go hunting without zeroing their rifle for the different ammunition.

It must suck to have limited disposable income.

It does, Code4. Hopefully, you're tucking plenty into your super so you never have to find out.

I have a friend that had a Granite Precision 300 Win Mag custom built with a fluted 26" bull barrel, plus a suppressor, and then put a huge Swaro scope on it. It weights 15 or 17 lbs. And he hikes around with it. We laugh at him all the time.

Hunter, Your friend probably thinks you're laughing WITH him. I have a few of the same who never really seem to get it. Although I may be that "one" to some of my other friends.

How much do suppressors weigh?

So much of the European stuff has to appeal to the snobs that know little about guns or hunting.

A 3X Leupold or 2.5X Leupold Alaskan is about perfect for most hunting to me. They are compact, easy to mount and easy to shoot off hand. The magnification is enough for 350 yards on big game.
For the difference in cost I can buy additional rifles that the poor Germans are not allowed to buy.

The problem is that animals have become smaller over the decades and our eyes have become worse.

My dad and his friends used to hunt elk, moose, and antelope with 4X Weavers. I think the biggest scope was a 3-9x40 Redfield my dad had on his "new" 264 win mag built on a FN action.

The animals were much bigger then and while my dad wore glasses for severe near sightedness, the eye glasses in those days were much better than today.

And people were weaker back then, they couldn't carry heavy optics in the field. No matter they all carried much heavier rifles and machines guns in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam, they weren't as tall and strong as today's hunters.

Ha, ha, AH.
Yes, the decadence is on all right.

I do worry about the number of people saying they have to have high magnifications because their eyes are weak. Are spectacles expensive compared with scopes in the US?

And yes, SR4759, the Europeans do seem to like high powers. Part of the reason for QD mounts is to whip the optics off to administer the quietus because they can't see the target properly through the scope. A German pal even 'stalks' our forest deer with his 1.5-6 scope turned right up - most locals use two or three power and 'hound hunters' lean towards open sights.

I took my mountain lion with an iron sighted Winchester Model 100 in .308.

I normally don't hunt iron sights, but I can shoot pretty darn good at a 100 yards with iron sights on all my rifles that have them. Never tried 200 yards.

I was reading some of Jim Corbett's books and he was shooting tigers at 300 yards with iron sighted 7x57s!

I would add that my dad and all his friends were on the USAF pistol team, so they knew a little about shooting....

While I don't have one, I think the Leupold 3-9x33 would be an awesome scope. I also like their 2-7x33, 1.75-6x32, and 2-7x28. I have their 1.5-5x20. I also like the Weaver 2.5-10x38 (have 3) and the 2.5-7x32 (have 1, getting another). The two biggest scopes I own now are Victory Diavaris in 1.5-6x42 and 2.5-10x42 for my Mauser M03. It was a pain to find the 2.5-10x42 as they had been replaced with the 2.5-10x50. I found a NIB here on AR.

Also, think the discontinued Bushnell 4200 1.5-6x32 would be sweet.

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My dad and his friends used to hunt elk, moose, and antelope with 4X Weavers.

and their fathers used something more primitive yet, and laughed at the 4x telescopes.

men have been gear collectors since a bigger rock replaced a smaller rock.

Can you guys please enlighten me about how "European" hunters are performing their big game hunting locally?
And in particular the hunt (legal so) that is taken part at night, eighter in moonlight or over snow covered fields from high seats or towers.

Further, which scopes would you recommend for such hunting prefereably based on your own experience ?

And at last, a detailed list telling me the difference in hunting traditions and laws from Rumenia thrugh the Balcans, central Europe, Germany, France, Italy, Iberia, Russia, Poland, The Baltic States, The British Isles, Ireland, Greenland, Iceland, Denmark, Finland Sweeden and my native Norway?

Perhaps there is a reason that high magnification scopes are widely used?
I just wonder?

I can't speak for the Europeans, Arild, and haven't heard much lately from the few that used to frequent this forum.

What I can say is ebay is full of great old scopes in good condition, finally separated from their expensive mountings to be replaced by illuminated models. That suggests to me there's a lot of hunting in and beyond the extremes of daylight.

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Originally posted by sambarman338:
I can't speak for the Europeans, Arild, and haven't heard much lately from the few that used to frequent this forum.

What I can say is ebay is full of great old scopes in good condition, finally separated from their expensive mountings to be replaced by illuminated models. That suggests to me there's a lot of hunting in and beyond the
extremes of daylight.

That´s was my point exactely Sambarman.

Some here is very quick to bullshit us Europeans, our gun laws, the way we hunt and the guns and scopes we use.
The fact is that there is hunting taking place in almost every European country despite these strict gun laws.

The number one rule for every tradesman and hunter is to have the right equipment for the job to be done.
And as a much of the hunting here is expensive and also often take place at low light conditions, big scopes and illuminated reticles gives you an edge and meat on the table.

I have scopes from Zeiss and Leica, but also a slim and lite 1,5-5x20 Leupold VX 3 for use in dense bush hunting deer.
I usually pick what is most suted for the hunt to take place, be it moose in open northern woods, red deer in steep hillsides, roe deer in cultivated farmland, rein deer in high mountains, or sitka and boar from high seats in dense oak or beech woods.

So as an quality 6x42 could have done most of my hunting, why handicap one self with less than perfect scopes?

The new big V8 from Zeiss is out of my reach pricevise, and I do very well with my Zeiss Victory scopes, but for some, new toys is always tempting (OT off )

It sounds like the world's your oyster, Arild.

Yes, those high-magnification scopes do make sense when shooting from a high seat with a nice rail to rest on - not so good if you see something to shoot on your way in.

The reason high powers help even at close range in poor light is generally explained as the 'twilight value' (or twilight number), where a better view is attained at magnifications beyond optimal light gathering - ie, when the exit pupil would appear much too small.

The formula is: the square root of magnification times the diameter of the objective lens . Therefore, the twilight value of a 4x32 is 11.3; a 4x36 is a fractionally greater 12; but a 3-9x40 at 9x is 19, which gives 9x the advantage even with its seemingly inadequate objective diameter.

The numbers would be easier to calculate and more impressive if we didn't have to find the square root, of course, but there's probably some relationship that requires it.

Forgive my ignorance, but what does "OT off" mean?

(Sambarman, OT is "off topic" as I felt i was drifting away from the initial topic for a moment )

There is a fact that quality optics have given me so many more chances to take game in a safe way, especially now as I´m reaching the "fall of my life", turning 70 next year.

The way we hunt around the globe varies a lot, and up here next to the arctic where I live, days are short during fall.

Hunting at night is legal here if one have a good moon, or starlight over snow covered fields.
It says it self that top quality optics is mandatory, and the new generation scopes from the big brands with illuminated reticles really gives you the edge.

You're not OT, Arild, that's my speciality.

Those big scopes are probably just the ticket for your varied hunting - but try very hard not to bump them as there's a hell of an erector tube in there to keep in place and most makers probably still just use a flat spring along the side to do it.

These scopes are allready on display in the zeiss website, their lenght is 13.5 and 13.7 inches, and the weight 24 and 29 oz. aprox. The tube dia. is 36. The cost around 2750 EU. I saw the smaller one in youeube here is the link. Regards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61li82OJXXk

Nothing succeeds like excess, ak49. I guess it makes sense for the dirty-tricks brigade but 20x and the three-metre adjustment range would take it well beyond what even Elmer Keith would consider sporting ranges or needed at Wimbledon.

I´m not a fan of long range shooting even if you are a marksman as many things can go wrong in a hunting situation. But the market for this type of scopes is growing, Swarovski has been selling the Z6 successfully, eventhough they are expensive, I don´t know if this Zeiss, more expensive than the others is going to be a success or a failure. But as you well said Sambarman, nothing succeeds like excess. Regards

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Say a straight tubed 1 to 5 or 6x, and a 2.5 to 8 or so with a 36mm objective..???

Oddly enough...whenever you see an old Hensoldt 1.5-6x36 scope in really good condition, it draws serious money...and these scopes are often decades old.

Have hunted enough in Europe to know that the large objective scopes are needed for the night hunting. The 1-6X scopes are popular for driven hunts in mixed cover. A good 1.5-6x42 will almost do everything as long as you have a full moon. Many combo guns will have multiple claw mount set ups to accommodate a couple of different scopes...snap them on and off as needed. Combo guns here are a just an oddity...

If you sit in a stand in Germany you could have red stag, fallow deer, roe deer, hogs, fox, marderhund, etc all pushed in front of you by the dogs and handlers on the ground. The North American hunter is more likely to just flatten everything with the 300 Win Mag and collect the meat that remains collectable. The Euro hunter tends to be a little more precise....that goes for the scopes too.

No doubt some who chide hunters for using "larger than necessary" scopes also themselves drive 1 Ton Dually pick-up trucks with V-8 diesels that produce upwards of 600 lb-ft of torque! How did we ever get by with just 400 ft-lbs?

Why can't we just let people spend their own money on what they want, without feeling the need to criticize?

The 1.5-14 scope weights 23.9 ounces and its lenght is 13.5". The cost in a spanish gunshop will be 2620 EU plus 21% VAT. The 2.5-20x weights 29.2 ounces and its lenght is 13.7". The price is 2930 EU with an elevation ASV turret included. The cost of the elevation or lateral ASY turrets is an 260 EU per turret. They will be available next month. Regards and good hunting

I forgot to write thata the price of 2930 EU and especifications werw for the 2-5-20 scope . Sorry