Greetings from New Zealand

Just wondered what bino's you guys recommend in this price range? (I know that high end euro glass would be best but sadly my budget won't stretch that far). Currently using 8x42 windriver mesa porro prisms and looking to upgrade. Had considered the Nikon Monarch ATB's are there other better options?

Thanks in advance

John

I understand the problem with the budget. When the time comes that will be my max I can spent. I looked through some Leuopol 10x50 olympic binoc's at the Cabelas in Sydney this summer. I could not tell the high end ones were any better especially for the difference in the money.

I have not bought them yet but for the $ it seems to the Minox may be the way to go. One of our contributors is with Camaraland NY and a pair of 10x40 run about 400.

I read some reviews of the eagle optics vortex 10X42's on the birding sites they sound pretty good also. I checked on ebay and the cheapest I saw were around $489, anyone know where I could find them cheaper? how would the minox measure up to these?

quote:

Originally posted by idahoelk101:
I have not bought them yet but for the $ it seems to the Minox may be the way to go. One of our contributors is with Camaraland NY and a pair of 10x40 run about 400.

I bought some Minox 10x42 from Doug at cameraland and have been extremely happy. Best binoculars I've owned to date.

The Bushnell Infinity 10.5x45mm is a very good binoculars that can be purchased for $400.
Pentax DCF WP II 10x42mm for $360.
Minox BL 10x42 BR for $399.
Stokes Broadwing 10x42mm for $360.
Vortex Fury 10x42mm for $360.

The Vortex Viper 10x42mm is going to be $489.99 just about everywhere. You might want to email Doug to see if he can do better. gr8fuldoug@aol.com The Vipers are really nice and would be worth the extra bucks. The Vipers are slightly better than the Minox BL 10x42 BR.

I bought the Minox 9.5x42 IF version a year ago and am using it extensively this hunting season. Seems pretty good so far. I bought it because it is one of the very few binoculars available in IF these days. I can give you a litany of reasons why IF is greatly superior as a hunting binocular. If you ever use a good IF for hunting, you'll never want to mess with those squirrly CF birdwatcher models again.

I'd be interested in hearing why IF is better. I've never used any but may be in the market for binocs next year.

quote:

Originally posted by Mikelravy:
I'd be interested in hearing why IF is better. I've never used any but may be in the market for binocs next year.

Just what I was waiting for, an invitation to climb on my soapbox!

First, focusing and keeping focused a CF binocular is problematic. Most people instictively try to first focus the diopter, then the CF. Of course, this UNfocuses the eye that you just focused. The right way is to focus ONLY the non-diopter eye using the CF, then focus the diopter. Once this is done, then both eyes should remain in relative focus as the CF is moved. The problem is that the diopters on most binoculars move rather easily, as does the CF mechanism. The result is that the user is constantly fiddling with either the CF or the diopter (and usually in the wrong order) as he attempts to restore the focus, which is damn near everytime you pick up the instrument after setting it down.

With the IF, you focus once (closing each eye in succession), and particularly if it is equipped with detents, you don't have to focus again unless the distance at which you are viewing changes significantly. For hunting, you are almost always looking fifty yards or more, so the infinate focus is truly "one size fits all". The exception is close brush hunting, but you can quickly learn the proper setting for each eye and quickly reset if need be.

Second: The CF is more complicated physically (both barrels must move at once), so it is more expensive to build. It also must be heavier. It also is more delicate (more subject to damage), and hooking the two barrels together with a common focusing mechanism creates a bigger challenge for moisture sealing.

Collimation: This is the single most critical issue in binocular performance. If the two barrels aren't looking the same place, then your picture will be degraded and you'll get a splitting headache after a while. The CF mechanism, being more delicate, is harder to properly collimate and keep in collimation. A hard bump that would be taken in stride by the more rigid IF might totally blow the collimation of a CF model.

In short, I've found that the IF is more convenient, more rugged, lighter in weight, and dollar-for-dollar a better buy (when you can find them). I know that I am in the minority, but ALL of the guys that I hunt with and who have had a chance to compare my IFs with CFs have all switched to IFs. If you think that instant focus adjustment is a necessary evil, then why don't you have a problem with your rifle scope? It is an example of an IF (by definition) optical instrument. Once it's focused, you never mess with it, do you? And you never have a problem clearly seeing your target through it, do you? Why should your binoculars be any different?

The only caveat in regard to IFs is if your binocular use requires frequent significant changes in the viewing distance. Birdwatching is the very best example of this. Birders are usually trying to see details at 10X of a bird that may flit from bush to bush between 15 feet and 100 feet distance. The combination of high magnification, short distance, and frequent change of distance makes the CF almost essential for this type of viewing. Hunters are almost always trying to see something at a much greater distance, usually at a distance that is far enough that the infinity focus does well (depending on magnification, somewhere from 25 to 60 yards with most binoculars). The exception is close brush hunting where you are trying to pick antlers or fur out of the sticks and leaves, but even then, the distance is pretty static and the IF set for a closer focus works about as well as the more rapidly adjustable CF.

I'm certain many users will vehmently disagree, and they're welcome to do so, but my prejudice on this matter comes from many years of practical use in the field. I just wish that more manufacturers would recognize the advantages of IF and offer more models in this configuration.

In the price range that you are looking in you would be best served by Minox, Vortex, or Nikon. If you get a chance please call me or e-mail / PM me as we cannot post many of the AR prices in a public forum.

Stonecreek

Other than the ones mentioned what other IF binoculars do you recommend?

I just bought myself a pair of Pentax DCF WPII's in 10x42, and they are FANTASTIC! I got them on sale at Midway and paid much less than normal retail, so that made them all the better. IMO, they're much better than the current Nikon Monarchs, or anything Leupold has to offer in the price range. I just got back from whitetail hunting last week, and they worked extremely well. The sun didn't fully come out the entire time we were hunting, so there wasn't a lot of available light, but they gave me bright, crisp images nonetheless. I'd give them serious consideration in your search.

quote:

Originally posted by Mikelravy:
Stonecreek
Other than the ones mentioned what other IF binoculars do you recommend?

The selection is pretty thin.

Leupold used to market (not make) some pretty good IF instruments made in Japan, but now Leupold has gone to China for most of their binoculars and all, to my knowledge, are CF. Every now and then you can find some of the older Leupolds on ebay, but that's hit and miss and from the high prices they bring I'd say there are a number of the cognescenti that are onto them.

Steiner makes a number of IF instruments. The quality varies in their line, so I would insist on looking through the actual instrument I was considering purchasing.

Minox has the 9.5x42 that I mentioned, and also a 6.5x30. The smaller instrument would be excellent for long periods of scanning wide areas.

Quiet a few of the quality European manufacturers used to make IFs, but I'm unaware of any being presently available.

Maybe someone else knows of some other models.

For deer hunting in eastern and midwestern woods an IF might not be the best choice. Even for western hunting there are many instances where IF might not be the best such as working drainages where you might look far, then closer, then far again.

Jackfish:

I've used both. Have you?

Yes. The IFs I have used are the Minox 9.5x42s and my old marine 7x50s. Most center focus systems on today's better binoculars are robust enough to handle most viewing situations without much fuss.

quote:

Originally posted by Clayman:
I just bought myself a pair of Pentax DCF WPII's in 10x42, and they are FANTASTIC! I got them on sale at Midway and paid much less than normal retail, so that made them all the better. IMO, they're much better than the current Nikon Monarchs, or anything Leupold has to offer in the price range. I just got back from whitetail hunting last week, and they worked extremely well. The sun didn't fully come out the entire time we were hunting, so there wasn't a lot of available light, but they gave me bright, crisp images nonetheless. I'd give them serious consideration in your search.

Looked thru Steiners, Minox, Nikons, Bushnell, and the Pentax. Chose the Pentax. Brighter, crisp and clearer than the others.

I have to agree with Stonecreek. I have three pairs of Steiners and they are ALL IF models. The main bino I use for hunting is the 8x30 Nighthunter XP and I love the fact that I don't have to play with the focus, especially in low light when it is much harder to focus a bino. I also find it VERY handy at sporting events or concerts. In my experience the IF feature does work quite well in most situations other than birdwatching perhaps. After using IF binos I have no desire to go back to a CF model. My 8x30 Nighthunters will provide a crystal clear view from about 40 yards to infinity which covers 99.9% of my needs. I will say though that the high power IF models are usually not quite as versatile because they need to be focused a little further out to work out to infinity. My Steiner 15x80 Military model will focus clearly from about 150 yards to infinity but it's not an issue for me because it is meant for long distance viewing and that's what I use it for. As Stonecreek mentioned focusing closer is not a problem and is very quick as well, I just use the reference marks on the eyepiece and do not even need to look through the lense, after a while you know what number to adjust to for viewing up close. One thing I will say about Steiner binos though is if you do consider buying them stick with the mil-spec rated models with the 30 year warranty and avoid the non-milspec models with the 10 year warranty. I have had quite a bit of experience with Steiner optics and their service and they DO make some very good products BUT they also make some crappy ones too.

Just found this thread. I have a pair of Canon 10x30(I believe) IS binoculars. They are wonderful. My PH in Namibia had a pair, and I bought some when I got home. Check them out.
Peter.

I got my son some of the cheap Pentax's from CameralandNY, and they are shockingly good. I also got some Docters from CDNN for $400, and they are wonderful.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Just found this thread. I have a pair of Canon 10x30(I believe) IS binoculars. They are wonderful. My PH in Namibia had a pair, and I bought some when I got home. Check them out.
Peter.

For under $400?

Stonecreek, I believe so. I bought mine about 3 years ago, and am pretty sure I did not pay $400 for it. Being a tight wad, it would have broken my heart.
Peter.

Stonecreek, I just did a Google search. First website had 'em for $329.
Peter.

We have Pentax 8x32 DCF SP's @ $299.99

Stone creek

I must disagree. Do not be offeded. I have used IF and CF.

Both were on high quality binos.

I would never have an IF bino.

NEVER.

While hunting in brush I have found that by adjusting the CF wheel, as you look through the brush, I can many times pick out a piece of an animal that I could not see without using this technique.

I use this technique while stalking using the bino with one hand, the other carrying the rifle.

I also pick a CF bino that I can work with one hand.

Unless you are in a helicopter or a patrol boat image stabilized binoculars are unnecessary. Just another thing to go wrong in the field. The less electronics the better.

Jackfish, sorry I have to disagree. At 10x, the IS capability makes a noticeable difference, especially as the binos are hand held. If the electronics go bad, then I still have the regular bino capability. The IS is especially handy when looking for small things (eg. horns) in bushes.
Peter.

Can't do much to make up for the inadequate 3mm exit pupil either. For serious glassing IS binoculars don't make much sense.