Ok... I've decided to abandon my hunt for yet another Remington Custom Shop rifle and finally get the best binoculars that I can afford and I think that I'll go ahead and spring for a set of Swarovski binoculars.

I'm thinking 8x?? EL? I hunt the piney woods of north Florida but will be taking yearly trips "out west" or "up north" for bigger game. I don't want "something as good as Swarovski" either so please don't recommend your whiz bang German or Japanese see'um thingies...

Are the Swarovski 8X 32mm Dark Green (Armor Coated) or the Swarovski 8.5X 42mm Dark Green (Armor Coated) the hot ticket? Note that I currently tote the 8x43 Pentaxs so am not adverse to "large binocs".

How about accessories? Lens doubler? Nakuru Binocular Field Bag?

Where to buy also is very important on such a big high ticket item but I am worried about possible grey market purchases and warranty.

I really need the help here people. I'm on unfamiliar ground.

$bob$

Consensus over here seems to be that the 8.5x42EL is the best allround hunting glass. If you are hunting more open terrain, a 10x42EL might suit.

You can add a 2x magnifier to one lens and use it as a telescope.

Brian,

I'm teetering between the 8.5x42EL and the 10x42EL. I already have 2 pretty nice pairs of 8x43 binoculars although I know that use of 10x binoculars for heavy cover can be frustrating. I've been there but it's very tempting to get the higher magnification. I don't shake at all so using 10X without a rest is fine with me (so far).

I suspect that once I get used to these Swaro's I'll be selling all my other binoculars and spotting scopes and spending MORE MONEY...

Does Swarovski enforce the "original owner" limitation on their warranties? I see that you can save a small fortune buying used on ebay.

$bob$

Bob,
For general use and wooded areas you will be much happier with an 8 or 8.5 than with the 10x. I also think, overall, you will be happiest with the 8.5x42 rather than the 8x32 simply due to the increased brightness of the 42's.

The doubler, not so much . It is handy but really deters from the high quality of the EL's.

Officially, it is not a transferable warranty. Swarovski is one of the companies, similar to Leica, that actually tracks serial #'s. They really register them to you when they are purchased and if/when you service them they do keep records of that history. You can check this with Swarovski @ 1-800-426-3089.

If I can assist you with anything please feel free to give me a call. We are authorized dealers for Swarovski as well as most of the other major optics companies.

Doug,

Thanks... I'm sure you're right but I'm not sure I'll carry the Swaro's off with me when I'm stalking which is when I use my current 8x43 DCF SP's.

I'm thinking that these will be used for when I'm in a ground blind or out scouting from the truck.

Plus... Like many people I might be too chicken to take my expensive Swaro's into the woods anyway so the 10's might come in more handy than the 8.5's for scouting or blind use.

I'm also going to get a serious Swaro 20-60x spotting scope soon and will be looking for a package deal if it saves me significant money getting them both at the same time.

The optics thing is something I've always been very picky about and I really hope I'm getting "the best" because when it comes to glass I think that anything less is.... well.... less....

$bob$

In the Swaro El's the 8.5x42 is definitely better than the 8x32. For some reason the 32 mm is a bit of a dog. The 8.5's are terrific. Leica Ultravids and the Zeiss Fl are in the same category-strictly a personal choice. The new Swaro SLC's ain't bad either...

FWIW
you can get the Zeiss FL's for a good bit cheaper in 8x42 than you can get the swarovski 8.5x42. The Zeiss FL's should be better as they are a newer optical design, use flourite glass, and zeiss is zeiss. Leica's are usually the most expensive. If you want the best you can but and save a couple hundred while you at it, I would get the zeiss

Go with the 8x or 8.5x. Forget the doubler - it does not work as you would expect. The 10x are fantastic but heavy. The 10x are hard to hold steady as well.

I love the 3pr of Swaro's I have, best non-gun money I have spent.

LDHunter, IMHO you should buy the larger EL's. I spent a good bit of time going through all of the different binoculars from the big 3 and ended up liking a different brand in the 3 sizes. To my eyes the 10x42 EL's were the best of the bunch.
I've used my 10x42 EL's for several years now and absolutely love them. The only times I've wished for anything else is when hunting in woods or tight in areas - and football games. The 10x's smaller field of veiw makes them second choice for bow hunting. I really liked the 8x32 FL's and probably will buy them on my next major optical purchase. At football games the 10x's won't let you see the entire line, unless you are sitting in the cheap seats.
Although the 10x's aren't the best for the deep woods, you want at least 10x to hunt our Oklahoma Plains or Elk in Colorado. I kinda think you should go with the 10x42 EL's and keep your 8x43's for use in tight cover.
In the small binoculars I like the Leica Ultravids. I have a pair of Swarovski 10x25's and would trade them for a pair of the small Ultravids.

Before you buy a Swarovski spotting scope try and compare them side by side with a Leica. I used both Swaro standard and HD models side by side with Leica standard and APO models. I preferred the Leica's both optically and ergonomically. Before you buy a Swaro spotter you need to decede if you like the helical focusing ring - you may like it more than the normal double ring style or you might not like it at all. Also if you can swing it buy the HD or APO versions of either scope. Some say you can't tell much difference I could. Both me and a good buddy were trying to upgrade as soon as we looked through the HD and APO models. Buy a straight tube for hunting and an Angled occular for shooting off the bench.
Zeiss makes some great Bino's but I'm still a little suspicious of the larger FL's. I read a reveiw that had a defective set and I've looked through 2 sets that were also defective. If you buy the 10x42 FL's be sure you can return them if you don't like them, or just buy the EL's which are better anyway.................DJ

Oh, and be sure and check with Gr8fuldoug on the El's. He usually has good prices on every optic I've ever asked him about.............DJ

I just compared the Swaro EL 8.5X42 to the 10X42. I found the wider field of view more appealing on the 8.5. Also, the 8.5 has a larger eye piece lens. Does anyone know why? Bottomline, For me the 8.5 is better for allaround use. If most of your use is open viewing at long ranges then the 10 is the ticket.

Hey guys.... I'm still here and reading everything... I really appreciate all the input and am paying close attention.

Tomorrow I'll be handling the Swarovski EL's in 8.5x42 and 10x42 plus I promised gr8fuldoug I'd give the Zeiss Victory FL's a look too since he thinks I should give them serious consideration and I'm not sure if I've ever seen a set of the FL's.

There's a local store here that should have them all and if they have Steiners I'll look at them too but I think I've stacked Steiners.

Saturday is opening day for whitetail rifle season here so I may be a bit "scarce" until Monday or so....

dj... Yep... So noted... I'm paying attention. My only time I've ever stacked bino's I thought I could see a difference in the Swaro's in low light especially. I've read about a lot of people that buy these dang $1.5K bino's thinking they'll use them for everyday still hunting and then have found themselves reluctant to hang them from their neck and bang them around in the woods. I'm afraid that I'll end up in the same boat.

I'm now using a pair of Pentax 10x42 DCF's for my "truck bino's" and will retire them soon and sell them. These have faithfully rendered clear images for two hunting seasons now but I yearn for clearer views and better low light transmission. Amazingly they stay on my dashboard for months at a time in all kinds of hunting weather and conditions and have been great. I sure hope the Swaro's or whatever I buy will be as rugged.

$bob$

Swarovski makes great glass.

Not to throw a wrench in your plan, but check out the Leica 8 or 10x42 BRF -- I did, and bought them, then sold my Swaro 8x56 glass.

But, honestly, both are excellent glass, the Leica with a built in Range Finder. You must judge what you plan on using them for, and the weight, and how and what your eyes see thru them. JMHO, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

LD, something else I forgot was to tell you not to bother with the doubler for your binoculars. I tried it once and took it off never to be used again (I'll sell it cheap if you really want one).
The Swaro EL's are good rugged binoculars. They have very good covers for objective and ocular ends. Don't worry about hunting them. They make covers that you can keep them in while around your neck put I find them unnecessary, just use the lens covers..................DJ

I took a Trophy Animals Glassing Class from Az Guide Duwane Adams in 2005 in AZ http://www.arizonabiggamehunting.com coon@theriver.com ph 520-385-4995 Duwane has videos and dvd's.I learned to spot Coues Whitetails 1.5 miles away, this is a valuable class for all hunters he uses Zeiss 15x45 approx $700 & Swarovski 15x56 approx $1900 Binocs and if you want to glass for game you can buy Pentax Binocs 12x50's They are quality glasses and will enable one to spot game using a tripod.I've got a 20x60 Redfield Spotting Scope but binocs are best.I have 20x60 Pentax Binocs I paid $180 to www.cameralandny.com camera shop with a binoc to tripod adaptor shipped to my home in CA from NYC. www.adorama.com www.bhphotovideo.com are 2 sources but there are many more I told all of my friends wanting cameras & optics to contact the NYC camera stores cause they discount just about everything. I bought a Velbon Tripod which will hold 11 pounds they start at $45 and up plus the pan head and binoc adaptor from a sporting goods store in AZ and paid about double the price I could've gotten them for in www.beechfoto.com NYC. www.cameralandny.com

quote:

Originally posted by gr8fuldoug:
Bob,
For general use and wooded areas you will be much happier with an 8 or 8.5 than with the 10x. I also think, overall, you will be happiest with the 8.5x42 rather than the 8x32 simply due to the increased brightness of the 42's.

The doubler, not so much . It is handy but really deters from the high quality of the EL's.

Officially, it is not a transferable warranty. Swarovski is one of the companies, similar to Leica, that actually tracks serial #'s. They really register them to you when they are purchased and if/when you service them they do keep records of that history. You can check this with Swarovski @ 1-800-426-3089.

If I can assist you with anything please feel free to give me a call. We are authorized dealers for Swarovski as well as most of the other major optics companies.

Doug out in the western USA 10x50's or 12x50's and up are the rule to spot big game out 1 or 2 miles as are 15x45 zeiss or 15x56 swarovski binocs .wildlife biol. I've done business with you before you're A#1 to deal with.

I use 8.5 x 42 ELs and they are by far the best I've used of the other glasses I've owned Leica and other Swarovskis.

OK... I listened carefully to Doug and others here and went back and compared the Swarovski's to the Zeiss optics and I thought I could tell the difference but I'm not sure.

What I found was a used pair of Zeiss 10x56 FL T binocs in like new condition with PERFECT glass for CHEAP...

I just picked them up at the PO today and VOILA!!! I went into the woods behind my house as the light faded and couldn't believe what I could see!!! Nothing short of incredible.

I chose the Zeiss because Doug told me that the warranty was transferable and I expect to use these binocs a LOT!!!

Thanks Doug and everyone that offered phone calls, emails, pms and support here. I intended to buy new but the deal was too good to pass up.

I'm a happy camper.

$bob$

looks like another happy Zeiss FL owner

After a day hunting in the piney woods with them I can say that without a doubt they're nothing but incredible.

More later... Company Christmas Party calls...

$bob$

Not bad. Glad you didn't buy the EL's. They are not nearly as ruggedly built as the Leicas or the Zeiss FL's. E

quote:

Originally posted by oheremicus:
Not bad. Glad you didn't buy the EL's. They are not nearly as ruggedly built as the Leicas or the Zeiss FL's. E

COMPLETE BS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Both the Leica UltraVid and Zeiss FL's copy the construction style used in the Swarovski EL's in order to have strong binoculars at a lower weight. They are all excellent binoculars but none of them have proven to be any more durable than the others................DJ

This is absolutely not true. Neither Leica nor Zeiss copied swasrovski. Where do you get info?

quote:

Originally posted by PATRIOT76:
This is absolutely not true. Neither Leica nor Zeiss copied swasrovski. Where do you get info?

I spoke with a Leica representative who told me one of the biggest difference between the Leica Trinovids and the El's was that the lenses in the Trinovids were mounted on aluminum frames that were then mounted into the binocular chassis. The El's have lenses that are bonded onto the magnesium frame. The El's also use some form of HD/ED/Flourite lenses. The rep told me that the new Leica's (Ultravids) were also going to have a magnesium body (which they do) and IIRC they were going to bond the lenses to the body as the EL's i.e. w/o the aluminum mounting frames. In the releases I read Leica doesn't say that they are using Flourite or ED glass in the ultra-vids they just say they are using quote "special high grade optical raw glass materials". So in using a magnesium housing to save weight, upgraded glass and coatings and possibly the way the lenses are mounted the Leica Ultravids did copy the EL's.

The Zeiss FL's use a new upgraged glass quote "special glass containing fluoride with
exceptionally low dispersion is used". They use a reinforced polymer body but quote "Objective lens barrels are a highly durable magnesium alloy", So again in using Magnesium in at least part of the construction and upgrading the glass they are repeating what was done in the EL's. It seems like I remember somewhere reading that they are also mounting the lenses directly to the body in the FL's but don't remember exactly where.

So Obviously Zeiss and Leica aren't making direct copies of the El's but they did mirror some of the most important design features of the EL's namely better glass and magnesium and also possibly the way the lenses are mounted to the binocular bodies.

Here are 2 of the references I just checked:
http://www.gentec-intl.com/GentecInc/Press/victory_32__42_fl_binos.pdf
http://www.company7.com/leica/lei42br.html

If I come back across where I read about how they mount the lenses I post back about it, but it is possible that the rep I talked to was wrong as it was actually before the Ultravids were released.......................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

quote:

Originally posted by PATRIOT76:
This is absolutely not true. Neither Leica nor Zeiss copied swasrovski. Where do you get info?

I spoke with a Leica representative who told me one of the biggest difference between the Leica Trinovids and the El's was that the lenses in the Trinovids were mounted on aluminum frames that were then mounted into the binocular chassis. The El's have lenses that are bonded onto the magnesium frame. The El's also use some form of HD/ED/Flourite lenses. The rep told me that the new Leica's (Ultravids) were also going to have a magnesium body (which they do) and IIRC they were going to bond the lenses to the body as the EL's i.e. w/o the aluminum mounting frames. In the releases I read Leica doesn't say that they are using Flourite or ED glass in the ultra-vids they just say they are using quote "special high grade optical raw glass materials". So in using a magnesium housing to save weight, upgraded glass and coatings and possibly the way the lenses are mounted the Leica Ultravids did copy the EL's.

The Zeiss FL's use a new upgraged glass quote "special glass containing fluoride with
exceptionally low dispersion is used". They use a reinforced polymer body but quote "Objective lens barrels are a highly durable magnesium alloy", So again in using Magnesium in at least part of the construction and upgrading the glass they are repeating what was done in the EL's. It seems like I remember somewhere reading that they are also mounting the lenses directly to the body in the FL's but don't remember exactly where.

So Obviously Zeiss and Leica aren't making direct copies of the El's but they did mirror some of the most important design features of the EL's namely better glass and magnesium and also possibly the way the lenses are mounted to the binocular bodies.

Here are 2 of the references I just checked:
http://www.gentec-intl.com/GentecInc/Press/victory_32__42_fl_binos.pdf
http://www.company7.com/leica/lei42br.html

If I come back across where I read about how they mount the lenses I post back about it, but it is possible that the rep I talked to was wrong as it was actually before the Ultravids were released.......................DJ

DJ - I AGREE THE EL WAS THE 1ST TO USE MAGNESIUM BUT I THINK THATS WHERE the "copy" ended. Leica has a different focal length and different prism system as does the zeiss. The zeiss uses ABK prisms which are entirely different. Also depending on when one purchased the EL, would define on how good there EL is as swaro upgraded without telling the consumer. Changed in focus wheel speed, changes is coatings. I dont believe dielectric mirror coatings were available when the EL launched. They use those now but didnt tell the consumer of any differences.
The Leica is much more compact and uses a titanium pin, while the zeiss is not even made of metal as you said and combined with the different prism block, its a stretch to say they copied because the yuse some magnesium somewhere in my opinion..

They used Magnesium, upgraded glass and I think that they all use the new bonded in lenses that were pioneered by the EL'S. Whether that's copying or not is mere symantics.
BTW only the 42mm FL's use Abbe-Koenig prisms the 32mm FL models use Schmidt Pechan prisms.

The EL's, FL's and Ultravids are all superb binoculars. If at all possible someone wishing to buy a pair should try all three. If Three people tried all three they might come away swearing that three different ones were the best - and they'd all be right!....... .....DJ

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
They used Magnesium, upgraded glass and I think that they all use the new bonded in lenses that were pioneered by the EL'S. Whether that's copying or not is mere symantics.
BTW only the 42mm FL's use Abbe-Koenig prisms the 32mm FL models use Schmidt Pechan prisms.

The EL's, FL's and Ultravids are all superb binoculars. If at all possible someone wishing to buy a pair should try all three. If Three people tried all three they might come away swearing that three different ones were the best - and they'd all be right!....... .....DJ

DJ I agree 100%!!! the 32 FL's do use the SP prisms like the Leica and Swaro, the ABK's are used in all the larger size zeiss and have been for some time. This means a longer binocular with a slightly wider taper usually. The tradeoff is better light transmission. With the mirror coating being as good as they are now, the percentages are not as different as they were..... The Swaro EL is a great binocular, probably one of the highest sellers ever... Swaro also is a marketing machine here in the USA and that always helps

My information is that the EL's, over time, tend to leak because they aren't nearly as well sealed as the Leica Ultravids. Leica actually started developing the Ultravids before Swaro started to develop their EL's But Leica, due to their exhaustive testing procedures, found this problem and refused to sell any Ultravids before they got it fixed. It took them five years to make sure they wouldn't have this problem.
Their prisms are much more solidly mounted on the Leicas. Their hinge pin is a Ti rod. They use only metal to metal small parts inside, not plastics. All in all they are much tougher binocular. E

I have a pair of 10 power ELs which are magnificent. However, a new pair of Leicas with the built in rangefinder have obsoleted the Swaros. If you do any long range hunting, consider the Leicas! I bought one of the Swaro doublers and agree it is a waste of money. One of these days I'm going to make a package deal of the ELs and the doubler!

quote:

Originally posted by oheremicus:
My information is that the EL's, over time, tend to leak because they aren't nearly as well sealed as the Leica Ultravids. Leica actually started developing the Ultravids before Swaro started to develop their EL's But Leica, due to their exhaustive testing procedures, found this problem and refused to sell any Ultravids before they got it fixed. It took them five years to make sure they wouldn't have this problem.
Their prisms are much more solidly mounted on the Leicas. Their hinge pin is a Ti rod. They use only metal to metal small parts inside, not plastics. All in all they are much tougher binocular. E

Can you quote any sources other than your own imagination on this?
The truth is that both the EL's and Ultravids are superb binoculars as are the Fl's also. Try them all and buy the one that feels best to you. But don't think that one is vastly superior to the others..................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by oheremicus:
My information is that the EL's, over time, tend to leak because they aren't nearly as well sealed as the Leica Ultravids. Leica actually started developing the Ultravids before Swaro started to develop their EL's But Leica, due to their exhaustive testing procedures, found this problem and refused to sell any Ultravids before they got it fixed. It took them five years to make sure they wouldn't have this problem.
Their prisms are much more solidly mounted on the Leicas. Their hinge pin is a Ti rod. They use only metal to metal small parts inside, not plastics. All in all they are much tougher binocular. E

Can you quote any sources other than your own imagination on this?
The truth is that both the EL's and Ultravids are superb binoculars as are the Fl's also. Try them all and buy the one that feels best to you. But don't think that one is vastly superior to the others..................DJ

Buy the 10x42 EL.
Buy the best and buy it once.
Mine were in a vehicle fire 4/5 yrs ago,casing was burnt,gas had leaked out, fogged up etc etc. I kept using them up `ll March this year, I thought they were still as good as ever,until I sent them back to Swarovski, who repaired them, and returned them foc,it did take a while but was def worth it.
I can`t praise Swarovski enough !
I use them here in UK,Africa, Europe,the quality of glas is 100% the depth of vision is 100% .
I not a technical person, so I can`t explain the boring stuff,but I do know whats good and what is the best.

One of the guys I hunt with was telling me how he thinks that Swarovski EL are the best.

I noticed he hunts with Stieners.
He says that the ELs cost so much, he has not got them yet.

I have been hunting with $140 Nikon Travelite 9x25 binoculars that I got for $10 at a gun show, and only weigh 9 ounces and fit in my shirt pocket.

I was happy with my binoculars, until my friend told me about ELs.

I don't want to strap some big weight on my chest.

I am thinking now that I will get some Minox BD 15X58 BR ED Binoculars.
At 15X, they will stay on a bi-pod.
At 53 ounces, they will stay in the car.


EL reviews
http://www.birdwatching.com/optics/swarovski_el.html
http://www.chuckhawks.com/swarovski_EL8x32.htm

review of 15X binocs:
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/

tnekkcc,

I certainly agree with you... I hunt with 3 different binoculars.

I have a pair of Zeiss 8x28 (?) Victory binocs that I carry in a pouch on my belt or a shirt pocket and a pair of Zeiss 10x56 Victory binocs with a Crooked Horn harness.

In my truck is a pair of Minox 15x58 binocs for long range viewing. I can use them with elbows supported for short periods of time but one of Doug's Gorrila Pods is never far from them.

It's an incredible combination.

I was looking for the Swarovski EL's when I found a great deal on the Zeiss 10x56 Victory binocs and will probably never know whether or not I would have preferred the Swarovski's.

I sure am happy with what I have though. I see a LOT more game and ENJOY my time hunting much more and suffer NO MORE EYE STRESS!

What could be better than that?

$bob$

LD, Those Gorilla pods are pretty dang neat aren't they.................DJ

DJ,

Yep... They look like something from "Star Wars" but they're incredibly practical.

$bob$