Given the vast elephant hunting experience that folks on this Forum have I was wondering what "best practice" recommendations you would have for a newbie preparing for an elephant hunt with a bolt action 458 Lott. Would be particularly interested in aspects such as scope vs. open sight; bullet selection and load development; shooting drills at the range.

Shoot open sights, 500 grain bullet at 2200 fps +, at 25 yards off hand. Practice shooting three balloons or clay pigeons as quickly as you can cycling the bolt with the rifle on your shoulder.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Shoot open sights, 500 grain bullet at 2200 fps +, at 25 yards off hand. Practice shooting three balloons or clay pigeons as quickly as you can cycling the bolt with the rifle on your shoulder.

So that precludes any left-hander, including Selby, from hunting elephants. Why not practise to put the first cold shot on the exact point of aim each time. Otherwise for us lefties we should just use an AK with 30 rounds available.

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Shoot open sights, 500 grain bullet at 2200 fps +, at 25 yards off hand. Practice shooting three balloons or clay pigeons as quickly as you can cycling the bolt with the rifle on your shoulder.

So that precludes any left-hander, including Selby, from hunting elephants. Why not practise to put the first cold shot on the exact point of aim each time. Otherwise for us lefties we should just use an AK with 30 rounds available.

Why should that exclude any left handers? The fastest times on the Zim proficiency shoot (see in Africa reference section) have all been left handers (shooting right hand bolt guns).

In the reference section there are details of the 'standard' speed shoot (6" target) at 10, 15, 20m ...admitedly this was designed for Professional hunters where 'belt feeding' something may be necessary and you need to a) shoot fast and b) reload fast

You are not going to shoot beyone 25 yards and you will almost certainly have to shoot off hand...As noted though, better a clean first shot than fast shooting for a client

My prefered practice? ..ATA trap from the 16 yard line

I agree with practice, whatever system pleases you, but, as pointed out, better a clean first shot than fast shooting from a client.

Apart from the shooting practice, a thorough understanding of Elephant anatomy and bullet placement is far more important. Make the first shot count, and the elephant is a gonner !

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Originally posted by Ganyana:

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Shoot open sights, 500 grain bullet at 2200 fps +, at 25 yards off hand. Practice shooting three balloons or clay pigeons as quickly as you can cycling the bolt with the rifle on your shoulder.

So that precludes any left-hander, including Selby, from hunting elephants. Why not practise to put the first cold shot on the exact point of aim each time. Otherwise for us lefties we should just use an AK with 30 rounds available.

Why should that exclude any left handers? The fastest times on the Zim proficiency shoot (see in Africa reference section) have all been left handers (shooting right hand bolt guns).

In the reference section there are details of the 'standard' speed shoot (6" target) at 10, 15, 20m ...admitedly this was designed for Professional hunters where 'belt feeding' something may be necessary and you need to a) shoot fast and b) reload fast

You are not going to shoot beyone 25 yards and you will almost certainly have to shoot off hand...As noted though, better a clean first shot than fast shooting for a client

My prefered practice? ..ATA trap from the 16 yard line

Whats your best score then?

My thinking has always been that if you are thinking of the next shot before you fire the first, invariably the first is likely to be bad. Being a careful deliberate lefty I have ever only relied on the first but note your point about the proficiency shoots. As a matter of interest Ganyana, why is this?

The best thing you can do is to know where to shoot one. Then if a follow-up shot is needed, you know where to (try) to shoot it again!!

Shoot, instantly reload, repeat!

25 yards, open sights, 4" bulls eye.

Eagle..a PH SHOULD only shoot when thing have already gone wrong...and like the military you keep shooting until the problem stops.

Elephant are one of the easier ones- the brain is quite a big target but as the PH you are often shooting at an angle as the elephant is going for your client or the parks game scout who have broken and are running (which, like cats draws the attention)- you are seldom blessed with it coming straight at you...even then, there are bullet failures (which are more common that you would belive reading the forums and clients reports)

Buffalo are stupid...usually too stupid to realise when they are dead- you keep shooting until you break the spine, brain him or he goes over you--even if he hits you if he is dying he will not come back to finish the job.

Lion..seldom come alone. One bitch may have the intention of pressing home the charge but a couple of her friends usually put in a guest appearence to keep you on your toes, and if you put the main one down, the others sometimes change their minds and a mock charge turns to a real one.

The exam was also designed to re-inforce the idea that you reload before you ever move your feet. If there is a pause, re-fill the mag..

My 'Best ever' is just under 16 seconds with a full score (threee reload three). Best I have seen was 11 seconds and a score of 28 (two points down). Best I have seen with a double with extractors only is 15 seconds

Bill +1

I would also suggest, going to the Zoo if you have one near by. Most Zoos have an Elephant that you can watch and study from a fairly close distance. Much better than looking at pictures.

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Originally posted by Jerry Huffaker:
I would also suggest, going to the Zoo if you have one near by. Most Zoos have an Elephant that you can watch and study from a fairly close distance. Much better than looking at pictures.

You probably don't want to go to the zoo and simulate dry firing your rifle there for practice lol. I took my oldest son, who's in the Rangers, to the Museum of Natural History when we flew to N.Y.C. for my mother inlaw's funeral and looked at the amazing African elephant they have in a full body mount there. The N.Y.C. visitors did not appreciate me and my son whispering to each other "We've got to get one of those!"



Chuck

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Shoot open sights, 500 grain bullet at 2200 fps +, at 25 yards off hand. Practice shooting three balloons or clay pigeons as quickly as you can cycling the bolt with the rifle on your shoulder.

So that precludes any left-hander, including Selby, from hunting elephants. Why not practise to put the first cold shot on the exact point of aim each time. Otherwise for us lefties we should just use an AK with 30 rounds available.

eagle27,

You do know that left handed rifles are available, I even own one in a Lott.

Shikaribabu,

Good advice from MJines and Will. Learn the anatomy (buy Will's book), practice shooting at 25 yards along with cycling the bolt and topping off the magazine.

Bullet selection would be a Barnes Banded Solid or North Fork Flat Nose. Make certain whatever you use feeds flawlessly.

Get Buzz Cnarlton's video "Hunting the African Elephant".

quote:

Get Buzz Cnarlton's video "Hunting the African Elephant".

I'll second that. It shows the shot, then goes back and indicates where the brain is, and then where the shot hit....repeated multiple times. I would also get Will's book(s), which does the same with photos and explanation.

Be physically prepared to walk long distances in hot conditions while carrying your rifle. And do it day after day.

Selby used his right hand to cycle the bolt and didn't really take the gun down that far. I posted a message from him where he described this i'll have to see if I can find it...

The Cabelas in Wheeling WV has a full size ele on display. About a 15 yard shot. They also have a buff, nobody seems to mind you talking about shots there. They might even loan you a rifle so you can look over the sights.

It was a lot of fun taking my wife there and describing the shot.

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
Selby used his right hand to cycle the bolt and didn't really take the gun down that far. I posted a message from him where he described this i'll have to see if I can find it...

I do realise there are left handed bolt guns available but too old to change now, besides a crime to retire my Type A Mauser 404. I would like to see or know how Harry Selby cycled the bolt gun using his right hand. Trying this on the Mauser would just see the retracting cocking piece take my left thumb off where it is still wrapped around the grip. Maybe the left hand is shifted down forward from the trigger guard before the right hand comes back for the bolt?

I suggest the following :

Practise making the first shot count .
Study the anatomy of elephant ( perfect shot ) and look at as many pictures of elephant and the different angles you may need to take a shot from.
There are many scenarios you may face in the real life situation - I prefer the one where once we decide we have a taker - we stalk in to about 20-30 yards - then we walk in as quickly and quietly as we can to 15 yards and the hunter takes the shot off hand. The elephant will either turn and face the hunters or not be aware - if its aaware and make sthe turn watch for the head shake and slow turn head raised - perfect side brain or heart shot presented. It may come forward head raised ears wide - carefull here - the angle to the brain has changed drastically - the shot will be much lowere than the eyes. frontal brains are the hardest shot. The key is to make sure of the first shot and recycle for the next shot and the second shot must be a well placed one. If situation presents itself that you shoot from 30 yards - ensure good rest and clean clear visual of kill zone - watch the opposite shoulder for diagonal shooting. Your months of looking at pictures and visulising the internal heart and lungs / brain will pay off in the heat of the moment.
As to scope or no scope to me the ideal situation with a bolt action is a quick detachable scope - if you are most comfortable with scope - make the shot at 20-30 yards with scope on and shoot off sticks or rest. It is not a good idea to start trying to get comfortable to shooting without a scope if you are not allready used to it. The best resualts are a calibre you are comfortable with and with or without scope again with what you shoot best - if you need to revert to open sights a quick release will help with a follow up or close encounter/ thick bush.
But look at as many pictures as you can - I assure this is one of the best pre hunt suggestions - get to know the cross section of an elephant like the back of your hand. Pin point kill zone at any angle in your sleep.
Elephant hunting is a journey and an experience - the more background homework you do the more exciting and pleasant the journey will be.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Eagle..a PH SHOULD only shoot when thing have already gone wrong...and like the military you keep shooting until the problem stops.

Elephant are one of the easier ones- the brain is quite a big target but as the PH you are often shooting at an angle as the elephant is going for your client or the parks game scout who have broken and are running (which, like cats draws the attention)- you are seldom blessed with it coming straight at you...even then, there are bullet failures (which are more common that you would belive reading the forums and clients reports)

Buffalo are stupid...usually too stupid to realise when they are dead- you keep shooting until you break the spine, brain him or he goes over you--even if he hits you if he is dying he will not come back to finish the job.

Lion..seldom come alone. One bitch may have the intention of pressing home the charge but a couple of her friends usually put in a guest appearence to keep you on your toes, and if you put the main one down, the others sometimes change their minds and a mock charge turns to a real one.

The exam was also designed to re-inforce the idea that you reload before you ever move your feet. If there is a pause, re-fill the mag..

My 'Best ever' is just under 16 seconds with a full score (threee reload three). Best I have seen was 11 seconds and a score of 28 (two points down). Best I have seen with a double with extractors only is 15 seconds

Hi Ganyana, with what caliber did you shoot
your best ever score? Hans

9,3x62...my usual- scoring system is biased towards a) accurate shot placment and b) speed. The .40 and up only score better than a 9,3 with a less than perfect shot. Still the fastest times have been with a .458 win and a .470 NE.

And get in shape! Keeping up with your ph and crew will be tough.

Definately work on physical fitness the more walking particularly on uneven terrain the better, preferably with pack and rifle. Build up to where your walking 4+ miles a day or more. Know your rifle and practice, shoot often to maintain proficiency.

Does any one know where to get elephant head targets to practice on like Marc Watts buffalo target?

Tom

The problem with the paper target idea is that every shot at an elephant is different.

You have to be able to visualize the brain (or the location of the brain). In my opinion, it is much to the same end to practice on the 4" bulls eye and eat, sleep, and dream of every conceivable angle for braining an elephant, and for the heart/lung shot for that matter.

The problem with only knowing where to shoot an elephant in the heart/lungs is that that shot may not stop a charge. Then you're up shit creek!

You have to be able to brain an elephant or get mighty damn close to stop a charge.

quote:

Posted 18 November 2010 02:48 Hide Post
The problem with the paper target idea is that every shot at an elephant is different.

You have to be able to visualize the brain (or the location of the brain). In my opinion, it is much to the same end to practice on the 4" bulls eye and eat, sleep, and dream of every conceivable angle for braining an elephant, and for the heart/lung shot for that matter.

The problem with only knowing where to shoot an elephant in the heart/lungs is that that shot may not stop a charge. Then you're up shit creek!

Good advise The elephant I shot was quartering away at about 75 yards in the dusk shot behind the upper front leg, double lung and heart dropped within 50 yards using a 375 barns 350 solids in front of 70gns of r15 great penetration. Nothing like what I practiced for

You shoot until your gun is empty or you don't have a clear shot. Then reload incase you need to shoot again. You don't stop until the threat is gone/dead. You better do some walking carrying something to simulate carrying a heavy rifle. Unless you intend to have someone carry your gun for you. Most eles are not shot from a truck.

Guys:

Excellent advice. Will follow to the tee. As regards solid performance on Elephant. The load that I have (and use successfully on Cape Buffalo) is Woodleigh 500 grain behind 78 grains of H4895 giving approx 2200fps. Would be interested to know more about first hand experiences regarding bullet performance on Elephant - Woodleigh or otherwise.

My four elephants were all brain shots, made with my receiver sighted (Lyman 48) .505. On the last two, which were quartering from the left rear, the second shot went into the heart.

I second the above suggestions, particularly the fitness part. The old adage was to figure one mile of walking for every pound of ivory. Since I came home with about 500 pounds of ivory (including a 94 pound one tusker), you can imagine how much walking that entailed.

Operating a right handed bolt gun from the left shoulder is simply a matter of practice. A friend of mine scored Olympic gold medalist Gary Anderson at Camp Perry in the '60's while Gary was firing rapid fire with a right handed Model 70 Winchester from his left shoulder. He fired his first string at 300 yards (10 shots in 70 seconds, including reload) and it came up a clean, all the shots in the "10" ring. There was a "range alibi" which meant that everyone on the relay had to refire. Again Gary's shots were all in the "10"ring, however with a higher "X" count. Another range alibi!! Again a "clean" with an even higher "X" count.

Consider, Gary was firing in the prone position, with a tight sling. He had to reach over the sights, grasp the bolt handle and cycle the bolt, then resume his sight picture and fire. Subtracting 12 seconds for getting into position from standing, plus another 10 seconds for a reload, using a stripper clip, Gary had only 48 seconds left to fire ten shots at a 7" "10" ring and a 3" "X" ring, using receiver sights.

Of course, there is no need now for a south-paw to use a right handed rifle.

1. Learn to shoot your rifle well.
2. I prefer a scope to an open sight.
3. Get fit, as you might have to do quite a bit of walking.

There is nothing special to shooting an elephant. All one hasw to do is place his first shot in the right place.

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Originally posted by Saeed:
All one hasw to do is place his first shot in the right place.

Where's that?

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Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
All one hasw to do is place his first shot in the right place.

Where's that?

The brain. And I thought you wrote the book on elephant hunting.

I did, and an excellent book it is.

I hunted with Kevin Robertson in Moz (buff). There was an elephant skull in camp, and Robertson gave me a lesson in ele anatomy using ther skull. I highly recommend such a study.

I highly recommend the DVD „Hunting the African Elephant“ from Charlton McCallum Safaris. (ca 130 minutes) In this video is an excellent guide to elephant hunting. Buzz Charlton explains preparation before the hunt, the training regime for the hunter, what weapons and what ammunition to use and how an ele hunt usually goes on. He has an extensive tutorial where he shows hunters shooting at elephants, where the shot went and what the optimal shot placement should have been. It is not very costly (about 39.00 US$ if I remember right) and is in my eyes one best preparations for an elephant hunt. In addition it is not only educational but also very entertaining because you’ll see many real life hunting scenes.
Cheers, Hans