Seen it twice on TV and had it happen to me. My case: PH, fairly large man, me with my BIG black cowboy hat and two trackers. TV is even worse because there is a fourth or fifth person with at large audio/video device on his shoulder. PH says; quit waving that rifle barrel around. Referring to carrying a rifle on a shoulder sling! With my rifle on a shoulder sling you can see nothing behind my hat! How is carrying a rifle around by the barrel across your shoulder safer or more hidden. Even side ways there nothing more offensive about a shoulder sling than four men walking around! When safaris were an all walk affair with a 15 to 20 pound rifle gun bearers were a must. Gun bearer carried the rifle on his left shoulder for a right handed hunter. Hunter just walked in to the rifle when game was at hand. How that translated to "quit waving that barrel around" troubles me!

Most guys I've hunted with that carried on a shoulder sling never paid attention to the damned thing sticking in the guy behind them's face. That's the main thing I have again them.

Then they have the gall to ask why I didn't keep up better.

George

A slow moving mass does not really catch an animal's eye. But a branch whipping back after being caught by the unsuspecting barrel is like a flashing strobe light to anything on four legs in a wide radius.

I often use a sling and it can be adjusted to not be way above your shoulder or better yet you can carry it muzzle down which works nicely and allows you not to be pointing the rifle at anyone. The African carry thing may look cool but unless your the first in line you will point your muzzle at someone sometime during the day everyday. As Live Oak pointed out this manner of carrying the rifle was used by Gun Bearers to assist the ivory hunters of old. A lot of people are not aware of that and just think it is THE way to carry your rifle on safari. BTW Roger Whittal shot his tracker using this mode of carry.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
I often use a sling and it can be adjusted to not be way above your shoulder or better yet you can carry it muzzle down which works nicely and allows you not to be pointing the rifle at anyone. The African carry thing may look cool but unless your the first in line you will point your muzzle at someone sometime during the day everyday. As Live Oak pointed out this manner of carrying the rifle was used by Gun Bearers to assist the ivory hunters of old. A lot of people are not aware of that and just think it is THE way to carry your rifle on safari. BTW Roger Whittal shot his tracker using this mode of carry.

Mark

And carrying it on a sling will inevitably result in the muzzle pointing at someone during the day as well. Going down a steep incline, will point at the guy behind you if barrel up. Going down a steep incline, will point at the guy in front of you if barrel down. Bending over to pick up something off the ground or duck under a limb or brush ... yep, it's going to point at someone either way. With a sling, you don't know where the muzzle is pointing. African carry, you are aware of it at all times.


But like I said, THIS particular topic has been beaten to death over and over and over and ....

Todd,

You still need to control the muzzle using a sling which you can do. I just feel it is much safer than the
"African Carry".

Mark

Regardless of how you carry your rifle, if you pay attention you can be safe. The technique is only as good as the application. I have also been in a situation where there were so many people that how I carried my rifle kept me more occupied than looking for game, didn't like it.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Todd,

You still need to control the muzzle using a sling which you can do. I just feel it is much safer than the
"African Carry".

Mark

Mark, it would be easy to go into a long dissertation of how the rifle is carried at 45 degrees off center with the AC so that those in front are not in line with the muzzles, and how you pull the muzzles in toward you causing the rifle to point to the ground when the line sweeps back and forth, and so on and so on. But a use of the "Find" option on this forum would produce numerous discussions of this very topic. No need to rehash it for the 10,001th time. 10,000 was good enough!

Todd,

How to safely carry your rifle certainly has been discussed before but being previously discussed has not kept numerous other topics from being rehashed on AR as the issues have come up for individuals. I like British Air for African travel but some don't. That debate will never end. How about the tipping issue?

Mark

If what the OP stated happened to me, I would politely ask what the exact issue is, and correct it if needed.

If, as it sounds, it was pointless, I would probably ask what he wanted, and if reasonable do as they ask. If not reasonable, I would remind them who was paying the freight and remember it at tip time.

Personally, I find the African carry is less tiresome for me and quicker to get to a ready position than a sling, but everybody is different. If you recall, could it have been that you were constantly moving it from a slung position to hand carry?

Had a North American guide who didn't like my carrying my rifle that way, but after a discussion agreed that if I liked it and was safe, he had no issues with it. Also had African PH's who prefer slings. It's individual.

I agree with Todd that it's the guy carrying the gun that has to be responsible, and pretty much any method requires some situational awareness.

That said, a "huge cowboy hat" has to limit ones success somewhat...pretty hard to hide that. To me that would have been a bigger issue than a slung rifle barrel. But it is the hunters choice what he wants to use in my book. The PH is just someone who is trying to help you find an animal and hunt it safely and successfully.

Agreed Tod.

And if we don't carry our rifles loaded we would all be safe.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
being previously discussed has not kept numerous other topics from being rehashed on AR

Let's see if we can kick start another Mark Sullivan / SCI piss fest! Much more exciting than rehashing the African Carry fracas!

Ah! SCI bashing. Now there's an educational topic.

OH hell no. I know for fact that Mark Sullivan shoots buffalo is the balls with a 22 to get them to charge. It has to be fact. Someone posted here that they heard it somewhere. Good enough for me.

I understand that Mark Sullivan will be doing a seminar at SCI in February on carrying scoped doubles with beavertail forearms in the field with slings on gold medal captive bred lion hunts. SCI is pitching the presentation as a presentation that will have something for everyone. Sign up early.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I understand that Mark Sullivan will be doing a seminar at SCI in February on carrying scoped doubles with beavertail forearms in the field with slings on gold medal captive bred lion hunts. SCI is pitching the presentation as a presentation that will have something for everyone. Sign up early.

That did it. Stand by for the shit storm a coming!!

May I?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I understand that Mark Sullivan will be doing a seminar at SCI in February on carrying scoped, single-trigger doubles with beavertail forearms in the field with slings on gold medal captive bred lion hunts. SCI is pitching the presentation as a presentation that will have something for everyone. Sign up early.

. . . single-trigger, over/under doubles . . .

Where can we sign up ?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . single-trigger, over/under doubles . . .

Sabatti!

quote:

The African carry thing may look cool

Only to those who like to think so themselves

The same goes to those who cut the sleeves of their shirt to look cool

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . single-trigger, over/under doubles . . .

Sabatti!

Sabatti in 45-70

Sponsored by Hornady Deadly Accurate

Our USMC unit was sent to Parris Island for annual rifle qualification. the lifers in the bunch had given up on any sort of close-order drill in getting us from the barracks to the range and were satisfied if we just kept our influence on the recruits to a minimum. those of us that were "really" cool carried our M-14s muzzle forward, forend resting on our shoulder, held in place by right hand gripping the gas system. Sounds like a variation of the carry referenced above. I have to admit, we were REALLY cool. :< :<

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
I often use a sling and it can be adjusted to not be way above your shoulder or better yet you can carry it muzzle down which works nicely and allows you not to be pointing the rifle at anyone. The African carry thing may look cool but unless your the first in line you will point your muzzle at someone sometime during the day everyday. As Live Oak pointed out this manner of carrying the rifle was used by Gun Bearers to assist the ivory hunters of old. A lot of people are not aware of that and just think it is THE way to carry your rifle on safari. BTW Roger Whittal shot his tracker using this mode of carry.

Mark

Mark, I would say there isn't a carry method that has never gotten some one shot! The dangerous factor with any carry type is the guy carrying the rifle. I fear there are people who are dangerous with their rifle left in the hunting car rack with a loaded chamber, no matter who touches it,it may get someone killed!

Muzzle control gentlemen, that is the key to gun safety.
...................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . single-trigger, over/under doubles . . .

Mike I have one of those I'll loan you for your next safari!
.......................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

The African carry thing may look cool

Only to those who like to think so themselves

The same goes to those who cut the sleeves of their shirt to look cool

Don't forget you need the open shirt, the long hair, lots and lots of bangle bracelets and that 1,000 yard stare like you have been in the action all your life.

The African Carry is not for sissies. Clients will never pull it off correctly. Best to just use a sling and don't be a poser.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Todd,

How to safely carry your rifle certainly has been discussed before but being previously discussed has not kept numerous other topics from being rehashed on AR as the issues have come up for individuals. I like British Air for African travel but some don't. That debate will never end. How about the tipping issue?

Mark

I carry muzzle up in a sling when stalking. Once,when out with a friend in front of me I was aware his sling was far too slack and the rifle constantly pointed back in my direction.
This probably happens to me but as i stalk alone don't notice it.

If you look at Alan in Saeeds videos, his technique is about the safest I've seen with a sling. Muzzle up with his hand securing the stock against his side. This must be something he has learned from an early age as it would seem automatic each time he's on the move. I would have no issues walking behind Alan...

quote:

Originally posted by John Chalmers:

I carry muzzle up in a sling when stalking. Once,when out with a friend in front of me I was aware his sling was far too slack and the rifle constantly pointed back in my direction.

John, This is why the so called "African carry" Is safe way to carry a loaded rifle. The person carrying the rifle always has the muzzle in his eye sight and is constantly aware of where it is pointing. Of course if the guy is not paying attention to his muzzle, he is the dangerous factor, not the method of carry.

quote:

This probably happens to me but as i stalk alone don't notice it.

If you look at Alan in Saeeds videos, his technique is about the safest I've seen with a sling. Muzzle up with his hand securing the stock against his side. This must be something he has learned from an early age as it would seem automatic each time he's on the move. I would have no issues walking behind Alan...

The way Allan carries his rifle is very safe, I agree with that statement. However, The fact that a big bore safari bolt rifle normally has the front sling swivel attachment on the barrel far ahead of the fore stock, this almost guarantees the muzzle being lower, and pointed at the sky when slung.

In the case of your friend I would almost bet the front swivel was on the stock not the barrel. The front swivel being on the barrel serves two purposes, #1 it keeps the barrel pointed up when slung, and #2 it keeps the muzzle lower than the top of the carriers head so it doesn't catch on overhead bush pulling the rifle off the shoulder.

If you will notice Saeed carries his rifle on his shoulder without a sling. I have never seen his rifle pointed at anyone, because he watches where his rifle is, always butt stock down and muzzle up and the rifle pointing high and about a 40 degree angle out of line with the person behind him. Even safer would be barrel forward so he could always see the muzzle in front of his hand with a 45 degree angle like the African carry.
As I said earlier, it is the nut carrying the rifle that is dangerous not the method of carry, and with the African carry the muzzles are carried at a 45 degree angle to the line of the party,and the triggers behind the cariers head to avoid them being snagged by bush. The muzzles are always in the eyesight of the carrier!
...............................................................

Thank you for your insight Mac. You are correct about the stud,never thought of that. Just goes to prove you can teach an old dog new tricks jc

quote:

Originally posted by MikeBurke:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . single-trigger, over/under doubles . . .

Sabatti!

Sabatti in 45-70

Sponsored by Hornady Deadly Accurate

O/U with single trigger.

I have only been to africa twice, but I had more guns pointed at me more times with "african carry" over there than I have in 30 years of hunting in the states, with numerous people carring guns in numerous other ways.

The game scout bringing up the end of the line and pointing his rifle at my wife all day long really bothered me. I talked to the PH about it, and the PH had him show me that it was "empty", but it still didnt really make me feel better.

The scout actually had her, me, and one of the trackers lined up to get us all with one shot on numerous occasions. All it would have taken was a little carelessness on a round in the chamber plus a branch in the triggerguard.

I didnt want to ruin an otherwise excellent trip by making a huge deal of it, but it bothered me a lot every time I happened to get a nice view down the bore.

I dont really care how people carry as long as they dont point it at me.