Rejoin SCI or not?

01 October 2016, 21:02

dogcat

Rejoin SCI or not?

Guys, I am struggling with SCI. I like the premise of the organization but really abhor the "participation trophy" aspect of it (and Grand Slam Club as well for the sheep guys). On the other hand, they are active in "fighting for hunters". I am not convinced of the effectiveness but the name is well known and they seem to get in the fight at times. So, I am asking an opinion in the form of a poll - do I rejoin or not and at what level? I am a life member of NRA and Wild Sheep Foundation, I am a member of Dallas Safari Club and Rocky Mountian Elk Foundation.Re-jion SCI? Re-join at a higher level? What say you??Re-join SCI as a yearly member?Re-join SCI as a life member?Keep my money and up my membership to Life at DSC?Join or upgrade elswhere? Suggest one!

01 October 2016, 21:54

reddy375

FACT - SCI is the biggest game in town as far as hunters go. Are they perfect NO, but who is! So why not support them? Hunters need to band together now more than ever before and there is strength in numbers.

Same thing goes for joining NRA.

01 October 2016, 22:10

MARK H. YOUNG

I agree precisely with what Arjun said but I can smell another SCI bashing coming.

Mark

01 October 2016, 22:11

larryshores

Those awards and some of their actions aggravate me to no end. They also serve to dilute some of the good that they do. There is a lot of good and at times it is not publicized.

I am hanging in there . This does not mean that I agree with everything they do.

01 October 2016, 22:31

Singleshot03

Most members I know have not entered their trophies in the record books. I like them for a couple of major reasons:
1. Biologist and lobbyists in the Capitol.
2. AWLS program which teaches teachers how to incorporate hunting conservation in their classrooms - that is the future of hunting.
Local Chapters that keep most of their profits for local support of 4H clubs, humanitarian projects, financially assist the Department of Natural Resources, support youth & disable vets hunting and shooting programs...

JIm

01 October 2016, 22:31

Steve Ahrenberg

Mark,

I don't see it necessarily as a SCI bashing thread.

I am in the same boat, I did a 12 year stint as a BOD member on the Phoenix chapter. I was continually disappointed with the actions on the Executives only. The rank and file were good, like minded people.

I let my membership lapse, only rejoined to go to the convention a couple years ago to see two of my mounts my Taxidermist had on display.

I'm at a crossroads right now. Some of the other local guys and I have been contemplating coming back to re-build the Chapter. It's difficult to watch something we put so much effort and passion into, decline.

When we left (all of us) our annual fundraisers were attended by 375-425 people. We were NETTING in the area of 35-40K. Their last event was 125-130 folks and lost money, from what I am being told.

We had several profitable events yearly; The fundraiser, a big bore shoot and my favorite event, The "Trophy Room Tour." They changed the big bore shoot into an air gun shoot and haven't had a Trophy Room Tour since I and others left.

So my feelings about the organization are generally optimistic aside from the SOP of the Executives. Being in Phoenix, we had much contact with the HDQ in Tucson.

Steve

01 October 2016, 22:41

Opus1

For the millions they take in, they don't seem to do a lot of protecting wildlife or habitat or even hunting rights. They claim to spend a lot of it educating politicians - I thought that is what the voting booth was for.

At the end of the day if it makes you feel good, then do it. You get a nice bumper sticker out of the exchange.

01 October 2016, 23:09

Frostbit

I didn't vote in the poll because my choice was not available.

Rejoin for one year if you plan to go to the convention.

After my present three year membership is up I will only join if we plan to attend the convention.

______________________
DRSS
______________________
Hunt Reports

2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112
2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012
DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191
Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771
Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141
Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141

01 October 2016, 23:24

dogcat

quote:
Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
I agree precisely with what Arjun said but I can smell another SCI bashing coming.

Mark

This is hopefully not going to lead to SCI bashing, just want to hear from those with more experience than me on SCI.

01 October 2016, 23:27

dogcat

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
Mark,

I don't see it necessarily as a SCI bashing thread.

I am in the same boat, I did a 12 year stint as a BOD member on the Phoenix chapter. I was continually disappointed with the actions on the Executives only. The rank and file were good, like minded people.

I let my membership lapse, only rejoined to go to the convention a couple years ago to see two of my mounts my Taxidermist had on display.

I'm at a crossroads right now. Some of the other local guys and I have been contemplating coming back to re-build the Chapter. It's difficult to watch something we put so much effort and passion into, decline.

When we left (all of us) our annual fundraisers were attended by 375-425 people. We were NETTING in the area of 35-40K. Their last event was 125-130 folks and lost money, from what I am being told.

We had several profitable events yearly; The fundraiser, a big bore shoot and my favorite event, The "Trophy Room Tour." They changed the big bore shoot into an air gun shoot and haven't had a Trophy Room Tour since I and others left.

So my feelings about the organization are generally optimistic aside from the SOP of the Executives. Being in Phoenix, we had much contact with the HDQ in Tucson.

Steve

Steve,
Thanks for your opinion. I have never been involved and you more experience here than about anyone.

02 October 2016, 00:43

Beretta682E

Everything I need for my meager hunting I can get at DSC. For me SCI is irrelevant.

Mike

02 October 2016, 01:36

boarkiller

Support and political clout is what I like from SCI.
Convention is great place for to get away from cold and snow and see friends and all
I'm a member of local chapter as well
To me, it's the least I can do besides being fervent supporter of NRA

02 October 2016, 01:49

Leopardtrack

quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
Those awards and some of their actions aggravate me to no end. They also serve to dilute some of the good that they do. There is a lot of good and at times it is not publicized.

I am hanging in there . This does not mean that I agree with everything they do.

+1!

02 October 2016, 01:56

MacD37

I've been a member almost since it's beginning, so I will re-up every year. I will not buy a life membership because I want the option to leave if I want and put the money elsewhere!

................................................................Just one mans opinion!

02 October 2016, 02:08

MJines

quote:
Originally posted by MacD37:
I've been a member almost since it's beginning, so I will re-up every year. I will not buy a life membership because I want the option to leave if I want and put the money elsewhere!

................................................................Just one mans opinion!

+1, and I think the Chapters generally do damn good work in their local communities through humanitarian endeavors, youth events and the like.

02 October 2016, 02:40

JGRaider

In the 6 years I was a member, I was very unimpressed with most everything about it. Some of the support they gave various programs was a good thing, but the negatives outweighed the positives by a wide, wide margin IME. I'm not the least bit interested anymore in SCI.

02 October 2016, 03:02

LionHunter

I've been a member for 22 years, was an active chapter BoD member and attended a national meeting in D.C. and met many of the national officers and past presidents - didn't care for some of them. I entered over 50 African species in the book and have qualified for many of the awards (as have many here, including Steve). I stopped entering animals and became inactive in the chapter after serving as the chapter president. I was burnt out and tired of only a few members actively working to support a chapter of many hundred members, but this is part of any volunteer organization. Sound familiar Steve?

Like all charitable (501c3) organizations, SCI has its problems, but they do good for the American hunter in D.C. - they have been active in law suits to protect hunters rights, including the Elephant and Lion issues.

By paying annual dues you support SCI efforts around the world, but particularly here in the US. Chapters retain 80% of their local fundraising dollars. Unless you have volunteered or served on the BoD of a local chapter, you really have no idea what SCI does - and you are NOT required to enter trophies into the record book, although the book serves many valuable uses and is not simply an "I like me" project.

I am sick to death of the anti-SCI comments on AR and stopped responding to them many years ago. Most on AR are good folks but there are some haters who never miss a chance to express negative comments, although most, if not all of them, have virtually no personal experience at the SCI chapter level. Conservation projects, education grants to teachers, D.C. and state representation, world record book maintenance...pick a cause and get involved!

02 October 2016, 03:31

MJines

. . . through the money raised by the SCI Houston Chapter (annual banquet, raffles, etc.) the chapter has supported causes like Wounded Warriors, Hunts for Heroes, Operation Orphans, Sam Houston Area Council Boy Scouts, Star of Hope Homeless Mission, Dande Anti-Poaching Unit, Rifa Conservation Education Camp and a host of others. Pretty simple, get involved or get out of the way.

02 October 2016, 03:40

LionHunter

Exactly right! The local chapters are the heart of SCI and simply paying annual dues to national doesn't provide even a remote idea of what SCI does. Join a local chapter and become an active member, and if you don't have a local chapter, get your hunting buddies together and national will help you form one!

02 October 2016, 03:57

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by LionHunter:
I've been a member for 22 years, was an active chapter BoD member and attended a national meeting in D.C. and met many of the national officers and past presidents - didn't care for some of them. I entered over 50 African species in the book and have qualified for many of the awards (as have many here, including Steve). I stopped entering animals and became inactive in the chapter after serving as the chapter president. I was burnt out and tired of only a few members actively working to support a chapter of many hundred members, but this is part of any volunteer organization. Sound familiar Steve?

Like all charitable (501c3) organizations, SCI has its problems, but they do good for the American hunter in D.C. - they have been active in law suits to protect hunters rights, including the Elephant and Lion issues.

By paying annual dues you support SCI efforts around the world, but particularly here in the US. Chapters retain 80% of their local fundraising dollars. Unless you have volunteered or served on the BoD of a local chapter, you really have no idea what SCI does - and you are NOT required to enter trophies into the record book, although the book serves many valuable uses and is not simply an "I like me" project.

I am sick to death of the anti-SCI comments on AR and stopped responding to them many years ago. Most on AR are good folks but there are some haters who never miss a chance to express negative comments, although most, if not all of them, have virtually no personal experience at the SCI chapter level. Conservation projects, education grants to teachers, D.C. and state representation, world record book maintenance...pick a cause and get involved!

02 October 2016, 04:37

Steve Ahrenberg

quote:
Originally posted by LionHunter:
I've been a member for 22 years, was an active chapter BoD member and attended a national meeting in D.C. and met many of the national officers and past presidents - didn't care for some of them. I entered over 50 African species in the book and have qualified for many of the awards (as have many here, including Steve). I stopped entering animals and became inactive in the chapter after serving as the chapter president. I was burnt out and tired of only a few members actively working to support a chapter of many hundred members, but this is part of any volunteer organization. Sound familiar Steve?

Like all charitable (501c3) organizations, SCI has its problems, but they do good for the American hunter in D.C. - they have been active in law suits to protect hunters rights, including the Elephant and Lion issues.

By paying annual dues you support SCI efforts around the world, but particularly here in the US. Chapters retain 80% of their local fundraising dollars. Unless you have volunteered or served on the BoD of a local chapter, you really have no idea what SCI does - and you are NOT required to enter trophies into the record book, although the book serves many valuable uses and is not simply an "I like me" project.

I am sick to death of the anti-SCI comments on AR and stopped responding to them many years ago. Most on AR are good folks but there are some haters who never miss a chance to express negative comments, although most, if not all of them, have virtually no personal experience at the SCI chapter level. Conservation projects, education grants to teachers, D.C. and state representation, world record book maintenance...pick a cause and get involved!

Great post Mike. Except I've never entered anything into the book. I had my Taxidermist score a few that he (we) thought were exceptional, never put them into the book.

I saw no point in it. I killed a Western Roan in CAR that was 5 or 6 and it killed Erik Mararv that I didn't bother to enter it.

My issue, and most likely don't know with the records department is that it is a stand alone "channel" and must maintain it's own profitability to continue to exist. The guy in charge back then (Doug Luger) was a member of our BOD as well. He was always soliciting donations from us for his department as well.

He was a constant drum beat to enter stuff to all of us. I can't remember if any of us did. The exception being the guy that took over in a hostile takeover. He was a ring and tuxedo guy, entered 100% of his kills.

02 October 2016, 05:08

LionHunter

Hey Steve,

I recalled you saying you had completed the African 29 and so thought you had entered, but note that I only said you had "qualified" not entered. I also have completed it, although, like you, I have never applied for it. The African 29 was a yardstick I used to measure my personal African experience.

As you know, it may well be the most difficult and least accomplished category in SCI as it requires many countries and more than a few safaris to complete. It actually took me approximately 20 safaris over as many years in 8 countries to complete. Admittedly I wasn't purposefully hunting for it but rather using it as a guide. My 2013 Roan with Karl in Namibia finally did it for me. Think I went from 2005 until 2013 needing only to get that Roan, so you can tell the completion wasn't my "guiding light".

I hope you will get back involved with your chapter and try to return it to its former status. As you know, these things are often cyclical in nature when volunteerism is involved, and are dependent directly upon the commitment of the players.

BTW, I knew Doug and worked with him on some projects. He was a good guy but I think he fell under the influence of some of the "ring & tux" guys at national.

02 October 2016, 05:19

crbutler

I also am a Life member of SCI. I can see some of the negatives in that they are not responsive enough, and like the NRA, they do spend more time fund raising than anything else it seems at times... Nevertheless, they are the biggest concerted voice for hunting at this time.

I would join, annual or life...and you can always quit if you don't support it in general. Even a life member could resign their membership in protest, I would think.

Get involved if you want to change the course.

After all, you don't need to play the rings and circles games unless you want to. If you look at the money it takes to play that game, you can see why they still are around.

Personally, I see value in the record book, but have not done the awards protocols.

02 October 2016, 05:24

Grumulkin

The lost me when the fee to attend the annual banquet at my local chapter became exhorbitant for not so good food.

02 October 2016, 05:41

Steve Ahrenberg

quote:
Originally posted by LionHunter:
Hey Steve,

I recalled you saying you had completed the African 29 and so thought you had entered, but note that I only said you had "qualified" not entered. I also have completed it, although, like you, I have never applied for it. The African 29 was a yardstick I used to measure my personal African experience.

As you know, it may well be the most difficult and least accomplished category in SCI as it requires many countries and more than a few safaris to complete. It actually took me approximately 20 safaris over as many years in 8 countries to complete. Admittedly I wasn't purposefully hunting for it but rather using it as a guide. My 2013 Roan with Karl in Namibia finally did it for me. Think I went from 2005 until 2013 needing only to get that Roan, so you can tell the completion wasn't my "guiding light".

I hope you will get back involved with your chapter and try to return it to its former status. As you know, these things are often cyclical in nature when volunteerism is involved, and are dependent directly upon the commitment of the players.

BTW, I knew Doug and worked with him on some projects. He was a good guy but I think he fell under the influence of some of the "ring & tux" guys at national.

I'm in 100 percent agreement about the African 29. I too used it for nothing more than a "roadmap" of direction, rather than simply aimlessly wandering throughout Africa. And I agree, I think the 29 is a very, very significant hunting accomplishment. One I am very proud of.

It makes you think, it makes you plan and admittedly will take you outside of your comfort zone. I know it made me grow as an adult and gave me views of many other cultures and parts of Africa typically not hunted, seen or visited.

Even now as I have completed it, I still refer back to it to look at other species. I'm in the process of booking next year to complete "all the Elands" and an East African Sitatunga. Mine is a Zambezi from Tondwa in Zambia.

I will likely return to the Chapter. The "hostile take over" guys have cycled through and the Chapter needs some direction, focus and mostly, experience. I had a real passion for the "Wish Kid Hunts." As I think you know I have a handicapped son whom will likely never hunt Africa with me. He's been twice but never hunted. It was my way of sharing my passion with the youth of America and kids who's future might not be so reassuring.

It became a fight to get these things voted on. And if the Chapter wasn't getting a ROI, they were voted down. I had to continually remind them all we are largely a philanthropic organization and are simply doing it because it is the right thing to do and completely consistent with our bylaws.

02 October 2016, 06:00

larryshores

I want to bring up a recent event.

Who here would have known about the antis trying to get the information on those of us who had trophy shipments if it were not for SCI? I know I would not have .

02 October 2016, 06:11

Steve Ahrenberg

quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
I want to bring up a recent event.

Who here would have known about the antis trying to get the information on those of us who had trophy shipments if it were not for SCI? I know I would not have .

Would USFWS have that info as well? I would think they can be considered a hostile entity to hunters?

02 October 2016, 06:15

larryshores

Sure they have it but were they going to make us aware of it? I think the answer is no.

02 October 2016, 06:26

LionHunter

I have considered USF&W a hostile to hunters organization for almost 20 years. Ask me about what they did to the Roosevelt Elk and Kaybab Mule Deer on the Channel Islands!!! An absolute disgrace! And what's even worse is that less than 10% of the islands will ever be utilized by the public in the CI Nat'l Park! ARGH!

02 October 2016, 06:39

Michael Robinson

Much to criticize about SCI, but also much to praise.

02 October 2016, 06:46

Steve Ahrenberg

quote:
Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Much to criticize about SCI, but also much to praise.

Agree, and everyone (include myself)leaving isn't going to fix the bad parts. It requires persistence and leadership.

02 October 2016, 08:58

Use Enough Gun

I just returned from an NRA-ILA 2016 Firearms Law and The Second Amendment Symposium here in Las Vegas. Both the NRA and SCI were represented there and both are indeed fighting in the Courts and in Congress for your rights to own firearms and to hunt. I wish that all of you SCI naysayers could have been there. For all of the so-called "bad" that SCI supposedly does, it is greatly outweighed by the tremendous legal efforts that they are making for us. A full time litigation division headed by SCI legal counsel Anna Seidman is working very hard to keep all of us in the fight over the second amendment and hunting, as is the NRA. The cost of an SCI or NRA membership is well worth it for just that alone, believe me.

If your'e serious about saving your second amendment rights and your privilege to hunt, it goes well beyond merely attending a convention for shits and giggles.

02 October 2016, 11:08

Idaho Sharpshooter

just what would Option B be...?

02 October 2016, 19:46

Skyline

Think I would make up my own mind on what I am going to belong to.......... sure as hell don't need to go on a forum and start a poll about it.

Good grief man, get a grip on it.

03 October 2016, 00:37

dogcat

Skyline,
You are missing the point.
I don't need help making decision. What I was asking was what others are thinking about SCI rather than read a series of posts from the anti-SCI group. The reason for the poll is that it an anonymous way to offer an opinion without inciting anyone on AR.

I have a better "grip" than what it may appear.

03 October 2016, 03:01

Blacktailer

I joined as a life member several years ago. Figured it was worth it if I was going to be in it very long. My local chapter closed about 10 years ago so the closest chapters are 150-200 miles away. Only entered 1 animal in the record book because it was #1 and I wanted to give the outfitter the support. Don't care for the inner circle BS but think they do some good in their legislative/lobbying efforts.
It's up to each individual to decide if it's worth it or not. I think it is. JMHO.

03 October 2016, 14:49

shootaway

quote:
Originally posted by Skyline:
Think I would make up my own mind on what I am going to belong to.......... sure as hell don't need to go on a forum and start a poll about it.

Good grief man, get a grip on it.

04 October 2016, 06:52

lavaca

I voted for DSC because I couldn't choose two. I continue to be an annual member of SCI. Not delighted with SCI but it's better than nothing. Very pleased with DSC's efforts.

04 October 2016, 07:51

Wesheltonj

I belong to both DSC and SCI. Personally, I would join DSC as a life member and SCI yearly. Being in Texas, DSC is more convenient for me. That said, I will continue to be a member of SCI for the following reasons (1) lawyers in DC suing on our behalf (2) a better gun insurance program. Now if DCS matched SCI, there would be no reason for me to continue SCI.

With regard to the record book. I really wish they would sell that business off to Rowland Ward. (This would be a great time to sell, not that Rowland Ward is back in USA hands, {Safari Press/Sports Afield}). Yes, I have records in both, but the record book and all the slams and other "awards" hurt the image of SCI outside of hunting circles. Personally, I have no other interest in any other awards/slams (and Slams is an horrible word) other then "medals" for each animal

04 October 2016, 21:52

Pancho

quote:
Originally posted by Singleshot03:
Most members I know have not entered their trophies in the record books. I like them for a couple of major reasons:
1. Biologist and lobbyists in the Capitol.
2. AWLS program which teaches teachers how to incorporate hunting conservation in their classrooms - that is the future of hunting.
Local Chapters that keep most of their profits for local support of 4H clubs, humanitarian projects, financially assist the Department of Natural Resources, support youth & disable vets hunting and shooting programs...

JIm

If you don't like the "participation trophys", don't participate. The awards program is a small part of SCI overall.