Any experiences? would you book with them again?
I am looking to find a long standing booking agent to set up my future hunting trips rather than doing the whole thing myself. Any other recommendations would be great as long as they have been in business for many years and have the financial backing to make things right when everything else go's wrong. I would hate to have to live through what Mark 6.5x55 is dealing with right now.

thanks
JP

In business 50+ years. One of the very best.

The Atcheson's are upstanding folks and have a wealth of experience...I have booked several trips via Keith.

But your last comment surprises me...as long as they have the financial backing to make things right when everything goes wrong?

A booking agent is not an insurance company. Using a booking agent is an assurance that you are hunting in a good area with a quality outfitter. But booking agents are not responsible if an outfitter goes bad.

When American Airlines delays flights and then cancels and then puts you on another flight and loses your luggage...your travel agent doesn't cover your ticket.

Good agents will do what they can to make things right but they are not the outfitter.

I have used them in the past. I find it easier to book direct if possible and I feel I get better service from the outfitter when they are not paying 10-15% to someone else. Their taxidermy service produced the highest priced lowest quality mounts I have. If you book with them or use an expediters service in Alaska they are the last place I'd reccomend for taxidermy.

quote:

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A booking agent is not an insurance company. Using a booking agent is an assurance that you are hunting in a good area with a quality outfitter. But booking agents are not responsible if an outfitter goes bad.

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Some booking agents hold the funds until the hunt is complete to protect the client.

quote:

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Originally posted by ChuckWagon:
I feel I get better service from the outfitter when they are not paying 10-15% to someone else.

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Really? Did any specific outfitter treat you better when you came direct than when you came though an agent. I mean, did you go to the same outfitter twice, and experienced this?

Frans

Would someone explain to me what the difference is between an "agent" and an "outfitter"?
Thanks.

Frans, while I would have to say its subject to interpretation my view is a solid "yes". All outfitters only have so many head of game in a given area and so many "sweet spots". If ten guys are arriveing for a hunt, two going out with each guide and four of those booked direct with the outfitter earning him 10-15% more, then who do you think the outfitter will assign the best locations ? This is of course just MHO based on my experience. I also feel that a part of that comes from taking the time to work directly with a outfitter instead of a booking agent. By the time I arrive in camp I have spoken directly to the Master guide/outfitter several times. He knows what my skill level is, what caliber of gun I'm useing etc. I also take the time to ask about tipping so he knows I'm not going to stiff his guide. The guys who use booking agents often never have a single conversation with the outfitter. I always prefer to book direct if possible but then I do a lot of homework and research before I go with someone new.

Gentlemen,

I have hunted with the same PH, both after booking through an agent and booking directly with the PH.

And both occassions, our hunts were absolutely great. The PH did everything humanly possible to make sure we all had a great hunt.

I think any PH worth his salts is not going to differentiate between a hunt booked through an agent and one booked directly through him.

There are some PH who will NOT book directly, but would refer the client to an agent.

I have hunted with such a combination, and again, our hunts have been nothing short of being fantastic.

At the end of the day, I suggest anyone looking for a hunt, especially for the first timers, is to go through a reputable agent.

Many of them are regular posters on this forum.

TJ,

The Outfitter is the actual company that conducts the hunt. They hire guides, lease land or may even own the land, hire the cooks etc.

An Agent represents many outfitters and sells the outfitters hunts. They are a separate company from the outfitter.

Unless your talking about an obscure hunting location like Ethiopia or Benin. It's best to book directly with the outfitter.

Of course this means you have to do the homework and make sure that your outfitter is an upstanding guy and you won't be hunting someplace that doesn't exist for nandi-lions or unicorns or thunderbirds.

Atchesons has been around a while. Their catalog is a little uppety and biased, but that's not unusual.

BOOK WITH THE OUTFITTER, AND YOU'LL DO FINE.

I should say my experience is based on hunting/travel in the USA. Here nearly every outfitter will sell direct hunts. This is the very reason that when you read a catalog like Atcheson's, Cabelas etc. they do not name the outfitter. Instead they put catchy little titles on them. If you do enough research it's not hard to figure out who's who. If I were booking Africa I would certainly want to use a agent who has been there many times, with different outfitters and could advise me of local gun laws, travel quirks etc. I would just have to say I feel you get what you pay for. The chap who is paying 10% more has a better chance of landing the sweet spot in camp, at least IMHO. Anyone who suggests that outfitters are not in the buisiness to make money or that it won't matter if you are paying them less than the next fellow is either full of bull pucky, inexperienced or spending so damned much money its a moot point. Picking an agent is as tricky as anything, maybe more so. Were just looking into Africa now and it's a big task sorting through the safari pimps who have been once or twice and decided to open a website as a side buisiness.

The best outfit I've ever booked a hunt with:

Safari Outfitters, Inc.
410 West Yellowstone Ave.
Cody, WY 82414
(307) 587-5596

When you call, ask for Don Crane. Don is a great gentleman, and he's taken extremely good care of any and all arrangements on my behalf.

AD

Well. I think many of the comments here actually show a lack of underlying business knowledge.

Outfitters have great incentives to treat a booking agents client with highest level of service. Because that booking agent equals 15 or 20 clients over the next 3 years...not just 1.

And you would be surprised that in certain markets outfitters compete for a bookings agents busness by offering higer commissions than the other outfitters.

FYI...one reason why well established agents don't list a specific outfitter in their catalog...is because not one particular outfitter. They may have 3 moose outfitters in Alaska and depending on a client's desire will recommend one over the other.

For example, a hunter may say...I absolutely want a trophy moose of at least X inxhes and I don't care how physically demanding the hunt is or if I go home empty versus I want a represntative moose and I want a high degree of success.

Give a quality booking agent a call and you'll see the value.

Gentlemen

Thank you for all the differing opinions they are most helpful. I would like to give a few opinions of my own based on the above posts.
I realize that a booking Agent is not in the insurance business and I as usual chose poor wording. what I meant by "financal backing" is I believe that it is a good idea to keep all funds in the US with the agent until after the hunt is over, If there were any problems to sort out, I believe the agent would have more leverage to try to settle things. Not to mention that all of us can get hot under the collar at times. It would be helpful to have a mediator of sorts to remain calm and keep the parties talking. would an outfitter do that for a single client that may or may not return year after year?
If a an agent sends a steady flow of clients, would the outfitter be more concerned with the so called "sweet spot" going to the single client, who will maybe return or the agents clients who are just part of the steady stream of business coming in to a particular outfitter from that agent?
My wife and I are first timers and at the SCI show who do you choose they are all there to do and say whatever it takes to get a deposit and there are hundreds of people selling the hunts. very intimidating at least for us. Then we met the Atchesons. Keith and Niki(very nice people) were very helpful in Pointing out the details that to be frank I probably would not have thought of. I was just curious if any of the AR membership has used their services and what was the consensus. I suppose that for the seasoned safari traveller that going direct may be the best way,but for now I think we will use an agent.

JP

Gentlemen:
When outfitting in the 70s (I know, ancient history) but, I think the same is true today, one's guiding princible in business is his or her own integrity. I tried to provide each client with the best level of service that I could provide,regardless of social status or how they reached my outfit. An outfitter is certainly aware of the added scrutiny provided by dealing with experienced booking agents such as the Atchesons. Here is the interesting part, I worked almost exclusively with the same Atchesons, father not sons, in the 70s. I found them to be honest, fair and forthright as they are today.
Jim

JPaul

Since you admit to being a first timer it is extremely important to enlist the services of a booking agent that has been there and done that plus has a genuine interest in your safari going well.

In retrospect I can't believe how green I was on my first safari. You just can't know everything to ask about until you have done it a few times. You need someone to help you.

I don't agree with you that everyone is willing to say whatever is necessary to get a deposit. I could probably sell a lot more hunts if I could allow myself to BS people but I can't.

I have been there and done that so if I can help in any way please don't hesitate to contact me.

Regards,

Mark

JPAUl,

LiRita and I have booked hunts both ways many times, but the only two times we've had trouble is when I've booked the hunts myself without using a booking agent. Last year LaRita had to have two operations, one for cancer and this caused us to miss our trip to South Africa. When we got the news the second person I called was our booking agent he said don't worry about a thing I'll take care of it for you, when shes better we can rebook it or we'll workout a refund. He called the PH, the airlines and I didn't have to do a thing. Thats why I would use an agent!

quote:

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FYI...one reason why well established agents don't list a specific outfitter in their catalog...is because not one particular outfitter. ???????? They may have 3 moose outfitters in Alaska and depending on a client's desire will recommend one over the other.

For example, a hunter may say...I absolutely want a trophy moose of at least X inxhes and I don't care how physically demanding the hunt is or if I go home empty versus I want a represntative moose and I want a high degree of success.

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With all due respect that is no reason to block out the outfitters name. It is to avoid direct bookings. Pure and simple. I'm at a loss as to why you don't feel a booking agent wouldn't be able to tell you not to go to camp X if your looking for a 84" moose as that might be a unreasonable expectation in that region. In regards to a lack of buisiness understanding from my view you seem a bit gullable. Anyone who reads their catalog for five minutes can understand that this is what Atchinson's would like you to believe. I do concur that some outfitters would bid higher commissions for a agents buisiness. Others might see/do things differently than myself but I think it's fairly reasonable to conclude that any reputable outfitter would not need to do this. In point of fact I would say you make a very strong case against yourself. Why would you want to be pushed into a area that is run by a greenhorn outfitter just because the agent is going to get a higher commission ? If you think theese people are not driven by profit I wish you would have been able to handle my Taxidermy issues with them. Mounts delivered looking like a 10 year old put them together. This was a few years back and the old man actually admitted to me the "kid" who did my caribou screwed up royally.That didn't stop them from billing me full price. I was put off time and time again for nearly a year before Atchinson's settled with me. My opinion of the way they conduct their buisiness is less than stellar. I would still use a agent for my first trip to Africa but certainly not this one.

Mrs. Atcheson has a 2 part article starting in the current issue of SCI magazine about her 2004 buffalo goring. It sounds like a situation that could happen to any of us on a bad day.

Back in the early 80s, I had booked a Mule Deer hunt through them. 2 weeks before the hunt was to start, there was a medical emergency in my family, and I had to cancel the trip. Atcheson's refunded my entire deposit, even though contractually, they were under no obligation to do so. They earned my respect.

Chuck Wagon is on the ball! I don't see anything wrong with booking directly. I booked for Africa in 2002 with an "top name" American agent, and everytime the exchange rate changed for the worse he wanted more money.

He didn't do anything special to help with my airfare and I went to my local travel agent for that one. Time was running out and I had to pay more for the tickets than what he had told me they were going to be (by $700).

The outfitter not the agent did all the ground work for the safari, permits, export documents, setting up with the shipper, checking on the shipment after I had left, and working out all the customs details.

Unless it's a really wierd place for wierd animals I am done with booking agents. Dont' have the time to waste money on stuff that doesn't happen.

Even worse than a booking agent is a booking agents representative. Where someone "represents" someone else who isn't even the outfitter. This happens all the time as well. It's another way to see money walking out the door for an outfitter.

I asked over 30 outfitters at SCI who they wanted me to book the hunt through and they all said the same thing......ME!

If they know you intentionally booked the hunt through then and cut out the middle man, don't you think your hunt quality might improve?

I don't know about you, but I time and money are worth alot to me. Especially when it comes to time and money I have saved to take to go hunting, and I want to be successful, just like everyone else.

I have booked four african hunts with jack jr, They served us very well and offer things you cant get with a direct booking. They have an escrow service which allows your money to stay here and to be released on your signature for day rates upgrades trophy fees and tips. Its nice not to have to carry large sums into primitive places with unstable governments. The service costs you nothing and you have the advantage of their personal experience. They have been in most of the camps they book and have updated info on game and conditions. Also note that atcheson taxidermy is not owned by the atchesons and hasnt been for a long time.

No, I wouldn't. I did book my very first safari in '77 with Jack Sr. though. I thought that he was wonderful.

Nope !

While the Taxidermy shop is no longer owned by them it was co-owned at the time of my problems. I should note that if it wasn't for the atchinson's I would not have received a penny back and as it was I felt screwed blue and tatooed. I also want to add that I am not trying to bash any agency. I'm only trying to point out that even with a very popular agent there can be big problems. Hunting is a risky proposition from the time you make a deposit until you return and sometimes a year later your still trying to settle on freight and mounts. I am a bit more independent than some and less than others. Booking is a very personal choice. We each have to do what we are comfortable with. My experience with this agency was not top notch. Others have nothing but good to say about them. My last experience with Atchenson's was in 2000. For me it was my last and enough to leave me with a bad taste. I will be booking with a agent for Africa.

I booked an Alaska hunt in 2002 with Atcheson's. They are superb.

First of all, Jack Jr. was willing to talk a long time about what I wanted. Then they sent me info on about five or six outfitters. After further discussion, they suggested two and suggested I talk DIRECTLY to the outfitters. I did.

I sense these are very honest peole who want you to have a good hunt.

Happy New Year to all of you! This thread was brought to my attention and I appreciate the kinds words. Niki and I are off to hunt Aoudad Sheep in Tx. for a few days then off directly to SCI Show in Reno. Very much looking forward to going hunting and seeing all our friends and clients at the show.

There are some interesting and valid points made from most individual's point of view. Ultimately it is a personal decision as to weather one chose's to use a hunting consultant or not. Obviously one way to find out if you don't really know is to ask fellow hunters. This is a very wise choice. And you do not always get the same answers.

Please allow me to offer this. Today there are more Consultants, Agents, sub agents, out of thier brief case agents, Been there once so now I'm thier agent agents, secret going to be agents, Become an agent so I can write off my hunt expense agents, outfitters, guides, wannabe's with the same sub titles.......than EVER before. It's easy to understand why to. Great way to make a living. But it is also become harder than ever to sort out the truth. Has anyone done a head count lately? While visiting with a PH in the hospital this last summer in Joburg he informed me that thier are over 5500 game ranches to hunt in S.A. alone. I've not actually confirmed this but that is a remarkable figure. And what about the rest of the world?

Alot of people use REPUTABLE agents repeatedly for a reason(s) and many book direct with an outfitter with great results. On the flip side many that book direct do not. Just remember one thing. Expectations don't always go as planned in this world. We don't guarantee that every trip we book is going to be a record class success ( over 95% of our clients are HAPPY and I am proud of that) but I can assure anyone reading this that a well seasoned reputable hunting consultant probably has alot better chance of assisting thier clients to a good experience and memories than the average hunter. There are alot of smooth salesman out there.

I can also offer that in most cases an agent has FAR greater leverage over an outfitter, guide or PH if something goes wrong than if you are booked direct with an outfitter. That is a fact.


I do feel compelled to respectfully offer some comments to some of the other posts as it would seem that they have incorrect information about our company. Please allow me to correct what could easily be confused given the same last name of two seperate business's.

For the record, Atcheson Taxidermy is owned by Tom Hardesty and Bob Maier. It is a completely separate business from Jack Atcheson & Sons. It was sold to them over 20 years ago so I'm certain that the Atcheson's did not have any involvement in your taxidermy work. We have NO financial affiliation to thier business. That being said, these guys are long time friends and most of thier taxidermy work is excellent. It is very unfortunate that one of the folks had a poor experience. I'd be upset to. I'm glad they eventually resolved it.

Also for the record, D&C Expeditors is owned by Tom and Shean Hardesty.

Additionally, we do not "block out" any of our outfitters names either in our catalog or on the phone. We certainly do not just list every single outfitter that we represent. That is simply impossible in our initial catalogs and flyers or even on our website.

Every hunter that books with our company is fully aware of who the the outfitter or ph is and vica versa. I can't imagine it being any other way. I have booked plenty of hunts with outfitters over the years. There is no way possible that I would personally book a hunt with an outfitter until I've been quite educated and I would not recommend this to my client until all are comfortable. It is part of our agreement that ALL clients discuss all aspects of the hunt with the Outfitter BEFORE going on the hunt. I want them to know who they are going with as well as the outfitter knowing the client. WE want our clients to be successful and happy.

In closing, I hope all of you have a safe and prosperous New Year and let me give all a BIG free piece of advice (Just as an agent's advice is free) . I re-learned alot in 04 when my wife was injured in Zim. Before you go anywhere on a trip make sure your primary insurance carrier covers you when out of country and in addition or in lieu of, buy supplemental accident and sickness insurance to cover what your primary does not. Read your policies folks. It sure paid off for us and it is a great piece of mind when the unexpected strikes. This applies to all travel.

Gee, I have been called lots of things but never a pimp!
Many small outfitters, PH's or whatever you wish to call them have no way nor enough time to get hunters in the USA thus they contact some fool like me to help them out. After checking them out the best I can I PIMP for them if I decide they are worth PIMPING for.
To date all my "JOHNS" have been most satisfied.

Kieth, thank you for shedding some light on the business.

Keith, those insights are much appreciated, alright. I've booked quite a few hunts directly with the outfitter, and got seriously burned just once this way. It would have been nice to have an agent working on my behalf that time! Increasingly, I turn to booking agents when I'm out to buy a hunt, especially those in Africa. The service these agents has provided has been invaluable.

AD

Keith, I appreciate you clearing that up. I hope you can understand my confusion based on the name they use for their taxidermy shop. I know your web site is a bit different now but am I incorrect in thinking that in the year 2000 you shared advertiseing on the same web site as the Taxidermy shop ? I think this may have added to my confusion. In my case I did not choose to use Atchinson taxidermy. I took my hides etc. to D&C expediters in Anchorage. I took a cab and stayed a extra day to go meet shaun in person and talk about the custom mount I wanted on the caribou including Tohiken eyes and the color of antler stain as well as mount. Now you can imagine my suprise when I received my trophies from a different state and a taxidermy shop I had never heard of. Add to that the wrong eyes, wrong colored antlers and a shoulder mount instead of the custom mount I had ordered. Getting this resolved took months and with out Visa and speaking to your office I do not believe Mr.Hardesty would have made any attempt to resolve the issue. I was always under the impression I had spoken to your dad who made a call over there for me. Realizing how ill informed I was now, I may have been wrong about that but I'm positive I talked to your office about this issue. Knowing that the buisinesses were not connected and assistance was still offered changes my view dramaticly of your office. In the end we did reslove the issues but I still spent roughly $1,000 more than I would have if I had brought the hides/antlers back to a reliable and very well known local taxidermist.

Chuck,
Just to make this issue about Atcheson Taxidermy a bit more fair and balanced, I'd like to add that I had them do several mounts for me after a hunt in Alaska. From that trip they mounted 2 caribous, a full body mount of a standing black bear, and a bear rug. I could not have been more pleased. The only issue that has caused me not to use them more concerns the delivery expenses of such trophies across the country. Shipping the completed mounts was no problem as they constructed some shipping containers that were built better than some houses I've lived in, but I've since found a taxidermist near home that meets all of my needs.
Atcheson Taxidermy may not have any current association with Jack, Jr and Keith, but at least from my perspective, they do good work.

I'm glad to hear you had a positive experience. The shipping charges were very high. In the neighborhood of $400 alone plus $140 just for materials on the crate. IMHO if I'm going to pay that sort of freight, handeling, crate charges etc then the work should be as they advertise. Which at the time was museum quality. I can honestly say the mounts I received from them were of very poor quality. The bear simply should not have been finished. To be fair any time you tan a hide the hair can come out. The real problem in this case was that they outsourced the bear rug and had no quality control. In addition Mr.Hardesty informed me that when it came back into his shop he never inspected it. I can't speak for anyone else but haveing a bear rug with the hair so thin you can see the areas where they screwed up and sewed it back together on both sides was not at the top of my list. There are cuts on both sides of the hide about a foot long that were sewn. The Caribou hide is actually a very nice job. If it would have been the mount I ordered and they had not made a mess out of the antlers then it would have been a fine mount. Everyone makes errors. The real difference is how its resolved. He told me at the time he saw the kid putting the walnut stain on the antlers and ran into the shop to try and stop him. The real problem I had and will always have was that the shoddy work was then sent out full bill. The entire order wasn't worthy of the freight cost alone. If that wasn't bad enough this took a considerable amount of time to settle.

I do want to take a moment to apolagize to Keith and the OP. This has gotton way off track. The only reason I have gone into this detail was to show the reason for my bias against Atchison's.

Im glad thats cleared up...