The blacks are really having a field day screwing over the people who actually built the continent and I for one will have to consider looking elsewhere to hunt. Please take a look at this website africancrisis.org and lets have a discussion on the growing problem in Africa. Thank you for your time.

David

Yea, its true. If only there were elephants in, say, Austalia.

rolexfan,

Spending your hunitng money somewhere other than Africa is really a non-issue as the African safari experience is so unique that you cannot find its equal elsewhere. Other places offer their own wonderful adventures but none will ever be a substitute for safari.

Mark

I agree with both of you. I agree with you but still feel compelled to write the post.

Rolexfan,
I understand you can find Cape Buffalo in Texas. Go enjoy!

quote:

Originally posted by Edmac:
Rolexfan,
I understand you can find Cape Buffalo in Texas. Go enjoy!

I also understand that most states have a place that has lions, elephants etc. darn thing is getting them out without getting caught. I suppose maybe we could do like they did in the movie "Secondhand Lions" we could just order them.

Please don't encourage the exotic ranches to start stocking cape buffalo, lions, etc. We've had enough problems from a local jackass who thought Russian Boars were a good idea...

David ///

I beg to differ with your general overview.

The people that are actually assiting to stuff up Africa are those white (predominintely western governments) whom support the dictatorial regimes whom in turn are syphoning off the money and creating lots of hardship for the generalo populations.

A good start might be to (work these dictators) out of power instead of supporting aiding and abetting them to hold onto power.

It is a (political problem) which we know most government in the west dont have the guts to confront. They figure write off the debt and throw money into the dictators pockets is the fix, how wrong they are IMHO

Cheers, Peter

Another point of view is that you are funding Muslim extremism by purchasing gasoline. You are also funding Chavez,a pro-solicialist - anti-American government in Venezuela. The Arabs/Persians and Venezuelans are "screwing" over the people that built their respective countries - or have you not heard about the nationalization of US/European oil producing and drilling assets in those various countries also. Be sure to add Indonesia to the list as well.

So, please quit buying gasoline as you are supporting the "locals" (be they black, Arab, Persian, Hispanic or whatever).

What is your solution, then? You offer a reaction and no solution or way to acheive whatever your goal is.

I suggest you go over there and take a look around to see the entire picture rather offer an uninformed opinion with limited world view.

It's a legitimate question.

But for me, the answer is yes.

Answer
YES
Today’s Africa is the only one we have. Hunt Now.
Doyle

Yes, hunt now, it ain't gonna last.

In remembrance of St. Valentine you bought your wife flowers. Do you know how many of our flowers sold at retail are imported from Venezuela? Chocolate? What else? Blacks in Africa don't have a lock on thieving, murdering back stabbing and corrupt dictatorial regimes.

I'd rather go to Tanzania than Venezuela and Kikwete is a saint compared to chavez.

Yes, I do want to spend it there.

465H&H

Ain't a perfect world. Let's enjoy of it what we can - now. As others have said; If not now, when?

Maybe there's a Nostradamus among us who can better predict what is to come. Doubt it.

DB

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Yea, its true. If only there were elephants in, say, Austalia.

A fact I rue every day . Why did the colonial Europeans bring over European species and not African species. Elephant to Tasmania, and plains game to the continent. We would be outbidding Africa without a doubt.

quote:

Originally posted by rolexfan:
The blacks are really having a field day screwing over the people who actually built the continent and I for one will have to consider looking elsewhere to hunt. Please take a look at this website africancrisis.org and lets have a discussion on the growing problem in Africa. Thank you for your time.

David

Black Africans have been in crisis since European man learned how to use the wheel and emigrated to Europe.

Something that is to be expected and lived with if hunting on safari.

YES I will continue to spend hunting dollars in Africa, but also lots of other cool places.

Seems like the only sane place left in Africa is Namibia and who knows how much longer that will last. I agree with hunt it now, because the way it's going today there is not much hope for it's long term future.

I think dogcat was spot on!

Yes, I will spend my money there on things like kudu and bushbucks and impala. I will tip the black staff, look them in the eye and say 'thank you' along with telling them how much I enjoyed their country.

If African game doesn't have value it won't be around. 'If it pays...it stays'. Otherwise $15 goats and $25 scrawny cows will take their place. Then the Chinese will really move in.

I will continue to hunt Africa when I can. I read many of the posts in African Crisis and they appear to be full of sensationalism and are purposely inflamatory.

A good read but I will keep an open mind.

I think Africa faces the same problems that the rest of the world faces.They are developing too fast or victims of those developing too fast,overpopulated or victims of those who are overpopulated.They are either selling out or buying out and in the end just like everyone else they are going downhill.There was a time when it was good for everyone,riches galore especially right after the advent of the combustion engine but the future for everyone does not contain riches IMO.Unless we miraculously discover earths twin unpopulated brother!

I am currently reading a book that gives you the exact answers to your topic. It can be a very disturbing book but you must keep it in perspective and realize what kind of people you are dealing with when you are in Africa.

The Winds of Havoc: A Memoir Of Adventure And Destruction In Deepest Africa by Adelino Serras Pires and Fiona Capstick

So let me get this straight...

We should consider not hunting in Africa because money goes to the blacks over there who are corrupt and discriminate against whites.

This "solution" would actually put more whites on the bread lines than blacks. Most of the safari operations are owned and/or run by whites.

There are some operations in some countries where there are so called "native" partners but in reality most of these "native" partners are actually Arabs or Indians.

Granted, some of the money we spend over there goes to bad governments in the form of taxes and fees but the "lion's share" of profit goes to white safari operators.

Following your suggestion to spend our hunting dollars elsewhere is flawed and would serve to hurt many more whites than blacks.

Respectfully

Todd

Hunting in Africa is probably the only way to save the remaining wild areas there from the pressures governments face to do something else with the land, like turn it over to people who are totally unprepared to make viable farms of those same areas. As long as there is money to be made (with our money) by keeping hunting a money making option then there is political justification to leave those areas wild.

We can either be engaged or withdraw. If we withdraw hoping that will induce change it will likely fail. This isn't 20 years ago, today China is actively trying to expand there range of influence. The power brokers in these countries will simply allign themselves with China and nothing else will change. Except that our sphere of influence keeps shrinking. This is one of the key problems with our foreign policy towards Africa. Active engagement will cause more positive change then withdrawal, even if we have to play with bad actors for awhile.

A question I am sure many have and do struggle with.

Yes, it's true that money from safaris in the form of taxes or other assessments ends up in the hands of a government. So, to that extent, the government does benefit.

With no safari business, the professional hunters who have worked to promote conservation and hunting would leave the field. The argument that african game is a renewable source of income would all but disappear. In impoverished countries, if it does not contribute to putting food on the table it is expendable.

With no economic value, big game becomes a mere nuisance - it takes up space that could be used for settlements and farming and causes harm to both the food supply and human life. Big game also attracts vectors that spread disease to humans and domestic livestock. In the real world, there would be no place for big game. And in countries where people know not where their next meal is coming from, big game with no economic benefit is an unacceptable inhabitant in the same space.

Not even the large wildlife reserves would be immune. Look at Kenya - no hunting yet rampant poaching is slowly decimating the wildlife population at least in part because big game has zero value to the people (more likely has negative value as crop raiders).

Some people would find it ironic, but the safari business in Africa is the last best hope to the continued survival of many species in their current habitat.

So yes, safari dollars do partially end up in government coffers. But most of them go to supporting PH's and their operations and today provide the only effective incentive to encourage the continuation of large populations of big and dangerous game - a renewable economic resource.

Any boycott of the safari business in Africa will have an irreversable devastating impact on the future of hunting. Once the view of big game as a pest becomes common, the genie will be out of the bottle. The only possible survivors would be high fenced game ranches that could somehow weather a period of unsubsidized existence.

If we have even the slightest regard to preserving any vestage of traditional big game hunting in Africa, we need to realize that the dollars spent on safari benefit hunting and the preservation of big game, and that benefit dwarfs any assessment a government may receive from those dollars.

I think you pick your battles. I won't go to Zim. I know Mugabe is probably no better that the rest but he is the highest profile. I also don't buy gas from Citco. What are your options though, hunt Texas for Impala & make your own diesel?

Here Here,
I say engage Mo and Mao..
AK