HI,

I pose this question not to take anything away from any other rifle or round. As I am a firm believer in shot placement over anything else.On that I have really look into trajectory and bullet weight and SD and BC. I have to say over all for a big game rifle I think for performance the 416 Rigby has to be the over-all rifle for big game . I think not over all for DC but for over all game and will work great for DC, there are some better but just for DC, the rounds for that are limited mainly in range and as a over-all rifle . And the reason I say this is if anyone looks at the ballistics and weight of a bullet they will see that a 350 or 400 grain bullet fron a 416 Rigby handloaded, as the factory's are under loaded, will shoot from 0 - 350 yards without a problem.The case capasity of the 416 Rigby will allow for for higher fps than a 2400fps with a 400 grain as a standerd measure and still be okay with PSI.I am sure anyone here will agree, just look at a Barns X 350 or 400 with its high BC and say 3 inchs high at 100 yards and one will see a round that goes from o to 350 yards. I do not want to insult anyone or start am arguement but just want to state facts. I respect everyone views, I also just want to say a 416 Rigby can be had in a rifle 8.5 pounds. I understand recoil will be up to every persons tolerances. Thanks,Kev

HI,

When I say DC, I really want to say DG. Dangerous Game.Thanks,Kev

It's a fine round. Plenty of power, good bullet weight and diameter, can be loaded to 2700fps by the stout of heart.

Some would say it's too big for plains game, and not big enough for DG, but it's a versatile cartridge.

George

While I still think that the .375 is the be all end all in versatility I cannot dispute Kev or anyone else who goes along with his line of thinking. About the only thing that keeps the Rigby from the top spot is I think that the recoil is a tad stout for some. I pray that no one ever makes me choose between my .375 or .416 Rigby...... oooooh what a dilema.

HI,

I respect both GEORGES and JR and would say I just want those to look at the flat trajectory of the bullet weights I mention. I can say that GEORGES has more experience than I will ever have and I assume JR too.I can only state the facts according to the numbers. If one were to look at the 416 Rigby they would be very hard not to say it was the all round even over the 375 H+H,in terms of terminal ballistics.Thanks,Kev

You might say the 416 Remington Mag is closer to the best all around rifle, as it can be housed in a slimmer action, like a Winchester Model 70 or (gasp) a Model 700. It's ballistics are quite immpressive, especially considering the ammount of powder burned compared to the 416 Rigby. No doubt the Rigby can be pushed much faster, but the 416 Rem's ballistics are still more than enough. If shots can reach 350 yards, verify the range with a laser, and know the actual drop from practice at those ranges. Then the 416 Rem is plenty of gun. The traj. is close enough between the 2 for zero practical difference.

If you can handle the extra recoil and gun weight of the Rigby, it is the right choice for you. If you don't, the 416 Rem can do anything the Rigby can, with less recoil and trimmer, lighter rifles.

Oh yeah, almost forgot. I hear Kev you went with the Rigby, have you gotten to try any loads in it yet? How does it shoot?

[ 03-15-2003, 10:55: Message edited by: todbartell ]

Todd,

Yeah, the 416 Rem.

I can't figure out what the obsession is with trajectory for a DG rifle.

Will

Yes, .416 Remington. The smaller casehead diameter serves to keep magazine capacity up & gun weight down, while offering identical results afield.

given a well informed choice, i would take the rigby, but that's just my opinion.

but I LIKE heavier guns...

since my heavier 416 would be 10 to 10.5, with scope, the weight would be zero diff between the various big 416s...

I have the rem, on a restocked m70, that suits me just fine.. but it's like a picture of a BLONDE Nichole Kidman-Osso..... It's CLOSE, but just not red... er right
jeffe

IF I had to choose one rifle for the world it would be the Rigby. I like weight too, but more to the point, I like the performance at lower pressure levels that the .416 Rigby has. I have fired hot head cartridges in very hot weather and seen the path to hell. If it is to be the "all around" rifle It is my choice. I suppose it would be a bit of a bother to load round balls for small game and figure the change in POI for reduced load white tail fodder, but hey, it's workable. An absolutely marvelous cartrigde in my opinion. The .375 is a great one too, just not quite as great in my eye. Of course I'd have to sell a closet full of stuff to get down to ONE rifle, and that's not gonna happen. FWIW, I doubt that loading the Rigby 'up' to modern pressure levels is necessary or desirable. It obviates the advantage of the cartridge. JMHO

/

9,3x64 Brenneke...Well that's what Ray told me as he was selling his to me...

If I was going to hunt all over the world, I would choose the 9.3x64, it wins hands down...

Were I only going to hunt Africa from now on I think the 416's give the 375, 9.3x64, 375 a good run for the money..

I would not be upset to use any of the above 3, but for now I am on the spot and Mike nailed my so I will go with the 9.3x64 until he has forgoten my verbalige to him, which should take another 24 hours, then I will take a 416 Rem.

Todbartell touched on a point that I was going to make too.

I will have a .416 built for me shortly, and since lefthand Rigby-sized actions are few and far between, I chose a .416 Remington.

Same performance as the classic .416 Rigby loading, albeit at higher pressures.

George

Kev,
You are of course correct.

The overwhelming majority of forumni spoke on a previous thread in the big bore forum that I started, hailing the .416 Rigby. The .416 Rigby is King of Big Game Rifles.

As for the .375 H&H being the ultimate, well, it will squeak by for the recoil shy, and I think it makes a fine sheep rifle when made up in a 6.75# featherweight.

The 8.5# .416 Rigby when made field ready would weigh about 10# to 10.5# with scope, ammo and a sling, depending on the equipment used. That is perfect.

We could go on for a long time about how perfect the cartridge design is ...

There is no contest, the .416 Rigby has it all.

The CZ 550 Safari Magnum in .416 Rigby weighs less than a Winchester Model 70 Classic Safari Express in .416 Remington, in terms of factory rifles that I own and have weighed myself.

Several forumni are turning the CZ into the ultimate big game rifle. You too, eh?

I have used the .416 Rigby with 350 grain X-Bullet to take deer at 342 yards (laser measured), and water buffalo at 50 yards.

The .416 Rigby with 380 grain GSC FN was a one shot killer of Cape buffalo at closer range.

There are lots of good bullets in the 350 to 410 grain range that you can push at any velocity you want, at reasonable pressures.

Yep, you won't go wrong with the .416 Rigby. It is the ultimate. For hunting purposes, nothing larger is really necessary, unless for chest beating and Tarzan yodel purposes.

I have shot better with the .416 Rigby than any other rifle, from 6mm PPC to 577 Tyrannosaur. Must have something to do with the perfect cartridge design that we could go on and on about ...

I just hope that no one ever comes up with the absolutely perfect, one caliber for everything, rifle. After all, I'd hate to find out that i piddled away all that hard earned money on guns I really didn't need after all.

I studied for a long time. Finally picked up a Ruger M77 is the rigby. I like it fine and it seems to shoot well. Why do you consider it to be the "perfect" cartridge design? Does anybody have a good source of brass for these things?

Pancho,
The .416 Rigby cartridge perfection? Well, starting at the base and working forward and backward:

No rebate of the rim.

Generous body taper, for slick feeding and "fall out" extraction, especially with the low pressures of the Rigby. It has about twice the body taper of the 404 Jeffery.

Shoulder is 45 degrees per side and broad. Absolutely positively infallible and precise head spacing. BTW, the shoulder angle has very little to do with feeding and extraction. Body taper does, that is why the .375 H&H and 300 H&H feed so well, even with the belt.

Neck that is fully 0.500" long, which is greater than bullet diameter, so it gives great grip and control of the seated bullet.

Throat: no free bore, just a leade that is 0.300" long in the chamber specs that I have seen. This might contribute to accuracy, but also might play havoc with the crimping cannelure location on some bullets.

Case head size is the maximum that does not skeletonize a standard 0.700" diameter bolt face.

This generous case size allows for the body taper, neck length, and low pressures with 400 grain bullets at 2400 fps, with room to spare.

The .338 Lapua Magnum case is a recognition of this .416 Rigby perfection. It is identical externally to the Rigby except for length, bullet diameter, and shoulder angle. With the smaller .338" bullet, they shortened the case 0.150" and sloped the shoulder angle down to 20 degrees per side. The neck/shoulder junture is at the same length from base on both the Rigby and the Lapua: 2.400". The Rigby case is 2.900" long and the Lapua is 2.750" long. The 0.500" long neck of the Rigby was shortened in the Lapua to "bullet diameter." The Lapua case head was constructed more heavily to operate at plus 60,000 PSI.

The Rigby case is strong enough for that too, but 40 to 50 Kpsi is enough for perfection in a big game rifle.

AFRICAN HUNTER MAGAZINE suggested exactly the same idea in their April 2000 issue (lioness on the cover) in an article. The .416 caliber was the focus, with no need to specify Rem.,Rigby, Taylor, etc.
I personally think it is a silly issue as I will always travel with two guns for dangerous game. A 416 and a 375 unless the target is elephant and I break down and get a double.

zzz