How many folks have actually taken an elephant (and was it a bull, cow or both) with a .450/.400 and what was effectiveness of the round on elephant?

The .450/.400 seems to be quite the rage lately with Hornady introducing it into their ammo line, Ruger chambering the No. 1 in it, etc. Seems like the round's track record on buffalo is long and stellar. Curious what it's record is on elephant.

I haven't used the 450/400 on elephant myself but my Zim PH used his to stop and kill a charging cow elephant on one of my hunts with him. His first shot at 6 yards was a little high to find the brain but knocked her down. As she was getting up a second shot from the front hit her brain killing her. I would say the 450/400 was very effective in this case. Another year the same PH with the same rifle backed me up on a large bodied bull elephant at 26 yards. My first shot, a frontal shot missed the brain but knocked him down. As he get up my left barrel missed the side brain shot but again knocked him down. As I reloaded my double the elephant got back up and the PH hit it on a side brain shot that missed the brain but knocked it down and out cold. I finisher shot from my 465 found the brain and killed the bull. He used 400 grain Woodleigh RN solids in both cases. I have been very impressed with the affect of a 450/400 on elephants and wouldn't hesitate to go into the thickest Jesse with one after elephants..

465H&H

I must disagree that it a dense bush or stopper cartridge. It is a glorified 375 H&H and that's about it. With proper bullets its effect can be maximized but it is not a 458, a 470, etc.

A great cartridge that has stopped plenty of elephants but at 4000 ft-lbs it is only 80% of the 470 and darn near only 60% of the Lott.

Just because it can kill elephant doesn't mean its an elephant gun!

And just because it is easy to shoot doesn't make it a miracle!

Bring on the counterpoints.

I think it is a good alternative for guys who are getting older and cannot handle the recoil of the stout calibers any more.

But I have not shot any ele with it.

Will!
Thou shall not dishonor thy father. Re-read Pondoro's take on the 450/400. He is adamant that it is a safe cartridge to take against DG in heavy cover. The 450/400 has sufficient whop, shock, knock down power or what ever else you care to call it to reliably bring an elephant down with a frontal head shot. That makes it safe to use in thick Jesse with the proviso that there is some Jesse that is too thick to go into with any caliber rifle. That a bigger caliber may give you a greater safety cushion is probably true. But the 450/400 has considerably more stopping power than the 375 H&H. By your mathematics the 470, 458 are simply glorified 416 Remingtons.

465H&H

465 H&H,

Indeed, the 458's, etc., are glorified 416's.

I was jsut reading Dad's three or four page diatribe last night about how wonderful the 450/400 is and what a stopper it CAN be.

Someone near the end he makes some exception though about not in the thick stuff. I'll have to find the quote.

Hey, 99.9% of the time I'm sure the 450/400 is just fine, especially with the PH around. It and the 416's have proven that over and over again. But when the shit hits the fan, I believe some major horsepower is required to discourage an enraged elephant.

But use what you want!

Obviously, bigger is always better when the S$#@& hits the fan assuming that you can place your bullets as well and as quickly with the bigger caliber. But that doesn't mean the smaller caliber can't be as safe. The most important ingrediant is the hunters confidence in his chosen caliber if that confidence is based on his proven abilities with that bigger cannon.

465H&H

ELS of this forum has taken elephant with his Searcy 450/400 3 inch. He was impressed with the penetration fo the round.
Look up his profile and send him a PM.

I can't remember if NE450#2 has taken elephant with his 450/400?

Took my bull ele July 06 in Zim(Matetsi unit 1) with my Lancaster 450NE. His tusk were 56lbs right and 49lbs. left. First 2 shots were heart shots broadside at about 25-30yds,third was side brain shot at 40yds. Bullets were 480grain Woodleigh RN solids,first 2 complete pentration to opposite side just under the hide,third was complete pentration and not recovered but did not exit.He was a huge bodied bull estimated at 40+ yrs old by th PH. My first and only ele and I was proud of him. The 450 performed great on the ele and buff on this safari.
Thanks
wesley

quote:

Originally posted by wesley timmerman:
Took my bull ele July 06 in Zim(Matetsi unit 1) with my Lancaster 450NE. His tusk were 56lbs right and 49lbs. left. First 2 shots were heart shots broadside at about 25-30yds,third was side brain shot at 40yds. Bullets were 480grain Woodleigh RN solids,first 2 complete pentration to opposite side just under the hide,third was complete pentration and not recovered but did not exit.He was a huge bodied bull estimated at 40+ yrs old by th PH. My first and only ele and I was proud of him. The 450 performed great on the ele and buff on this safari.
Thanks
wesley

Can't ask for more than that.

First off let me say I'm not an elephant hunter! Not by choice you understand, but from lack of disposable funds!

I am a great fan of the 450/400 Jefery, however, and I've not found it lacking at all on Buffalo, or hippo at close in shooting. My experience with shooting elephant is limited to two shots fired into the heart/lung area of a big bull, that had the first forntal shot botched by a friend, and my shots, and the PH's shots were all in the heart, as he turned to run away.

He didn't get far, because my friend's second shot went into a "behind the ear" brain shot, dropping him in a cloud of red dust! In that case I wasn't useing a 450/400, but the PH was, and my friend was useing a 458 Win Mag bolt rifle. The first 458 went within 4" of the brain, but didn't phase the ele, other than to turn him. I'm not sure a 400 gr .411 solid at 2150fps wouldn't have done as well.

No way I can prove it, and with a double the second shot would likely have been quick on the heels of the first, and my, and the PH's shots might not have been needed at all!

I'll just say it wouldn't worry me any more to go into the weeds with a big bull ele, with a 450/400NE jef, double, than it would with one of the 458s.

As I said at the begining, this is all conjector, since I'm not an Ele hunter with any chambering!

Although I would rather chase Ele in the thick bush with ether a 450NE, 470NE or 500NE, I will not hesitate to follow the PH and tracker into the bush armed with my 400J with Woodleigh Solids.
ozhunter

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Someone near the end he makes some exception though about not in the thick stuff. I'll have to find the quote.

From African Rifles & Cartridges by John "Pondoro" Taylor:

[P]ractical experience has shown that it's a simply splendid weapon for all heavy and dangerous game anywhere-- particularly when in the hands of an experienced hunter . . . I have used it in the densest of African cover against all kinds of dangerous game, and it never showed the slightest signs of letting me down."

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Someone near the end he makes some exception though about not in the thick stuff. I'll have to find the quote.

Will,

Perhaps this is the quote you are referring to:

"Naturally, it will be understood that I speak as a hunter and there are certain types of thicket into which no hunter in his right mind would attempt to follow any wounded and potentially savage beast; if he gets in there, well and good-- he wins."

But just before that he writes:

"With one or other of these rifles I killed practically all species of African game and my experience was such that I would not hesitate to follow any dangerous animal into any sort of cover if armed with a double .400"

If I was "experienced" I'd be using the 275 Rigby!

Taylor, damn his hide, never said squat about taking the brain shot, other than he did it. Never how to do or otherwise.

I think to be relatively safe when you are within kissing distance of elephant you need a big gun. Of course one is free to do what they want.

Also to be relatively safe in all situations one has to have acquired the ability to "see" the brain from any angle. Once one thinks in terms of seeing the brain when an elephant is approached and not wondering where to place the shot one is pretty safe.

Not a word out of old John about any of this. Too bad someone didn't take him under their wing instead of having him languish in poverty in his last years.

He was quite the pioneer.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Someone near the end he makes some exception though about not in the thick stuff. I'll have to find the quote.

Will,

Perhaps this is the quote you are referring to:

"Naturally, it will be understood that I speak as a hunter and there are certain types of thicket into which no hunter in his right mind would attempt to follow any wounded and potentially savage beast; if he gets in there, well and good-- he wins."

But just before that he writes:

"With one or other of these rifles I killed practically all species of African game and my experience was such that I would not hesitate to follow any dangerous animal into any sort of cover if armed with a double .400"

Actually I responded to this before you posted it! See my previous post.

It is one thing to be an experienced elephant and a rookie like me.

Yeh, if you feel confident that you can brain an elephant whether it is 25 yards away or towering over you, be my guest! I am not that confident and would rather have a big gun to better to be able to turn or knock down the elephant.

But it is fun talking about it, I have to admit.

I have only shot 5 elephants. 4 were with the 400 with woodlieghs. The other was with a 375. One was a full blown charge from a big cow. I gave her a frontal brain shot that missed the brain but I think stopped her. This all happened very very fast. Just a heart beat after my first shot my PH shot too with a 458 lott and his shot hit the side of her tusk at the lip and ricocheted off the tusk. in my mind though I believe that she was already stopped by the 400 round that went a little low. She turned and my second shot put her down. Two more cows were side brain shots and they went down with one shot. I took my bull with a heart lung shot a quick double tap and he took about 4 or 5 lumbering steps and fell dead. I'm very fond of the 400 but my experience is very limited. I think that you really need to have shot 20 or at least seen 20 elephants shot with many different rifles to have much of a legitimate opinion on the issue.
There are some things that are certain and that is that the 400 is much easier to get off a quick second shot than is possible with the bigger guns.and I think that is very important. The other advantage is that it much easier to shoot well. I really think that you will be very happy with a 400. I could ramble on but off to bed with hopes of dreams of Africa.

els, Your experiences with the 400 Sound good to me.

I shot a bull elephant, frontal brain with my 450/400 3 1/4", using a 400gr Woodleigh Solid.

He went right down.

I also shot a buff, my wife shot a buff, and I shot a lion with it.

I would have no fear using the 400 again for elephant, or any other game either.