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About to pull the trigger on a new light rifle. Just wanted to know if anyone has any experience with a Gunwerks rifles in Africa. Seems like a no brainer to me. The system comes with a ballistic turret which is calibrated to your ammo and allows you to adjust to your distance. So I can crank it down to 100 yards for a leopard or a croc, or up to 2,3 or 400 yards for plains game. Welcome experiences. | ||
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I am always weary of these distance changes with a scope. Do you have a range finder with you all the time? How well are you at judging distances? In different terrain? I have seen even very experienced hunters be way off in distance calls. I think it is better to know the trajectory of your rifle. | |||
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They are unbelievable weapons. Hard to imagine anyone not having a rangefinder either themselves, or the PH these days. What caliber are you thinking of going with? Marius Goosen KMG Hunting Safaris Cell, Whats App, Signal + 27 82 8205387 E-mail: info@huntsafaris.co.za Website: www.huntsafaris.co.za Skype: muis19820603 Check us out on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kmghuntingsafaris Instagram: @kmg_hunting_safaris | |||
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People who hunt wild areas, not a farm, try to carry as little as possible. When one has to walk up to 35 kilometers a day, anything inessential is left behind. But, of course hunting off the back of the truck on a farm one can have as much as he wishes of these gadgets! Don’t laugh, I do enjoy hunting on farms, and I do shoot off the back of the truck. When in Rome….  | |||
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Maybe so, although a lot of the areas where we hunt are free range. Binoculars have built in rangefinders, and in the big mountains in our areas, its essential. As you mentioned, different types of terrain gives false estimations. Marius Goosen KMG Hunting Safaris Cell, Whats App, Signal + 27 82 8205387 E-mail: info@huntsafaris.co.za Website: www.huntsafaris.co.za Skype: muis19820603 Check us out on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kmghuntingsafaris Instagram: @kmg_hunting_safaris | |||
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Gunwerks makes a good product ... As far as a scope with Turrets you may be opening a can of worms with this group.... I believe Saeed is trying to say "keep it simple" You're hunting not shooting... the excitement in the hunt is not reaching for a Turret but in getting close then perhaps a little closer My last 2 trips none of my rifles wore a scope | |||
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Gunwerks are fine guns. I don't own one but tried one and liked it. Probably a bit over engineering for plains game because it's rarely a real long range hunt. That said, it won't hurt to have it, if you know how to use it. Binoculars with range finders are so common. I actually cannot imagine hunting or guiding without one. I would invest in a good pair before I even think about any other equipment. | |||
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Gunwerks builds good products. | |||
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That's a great quote Zephyr, I might have to borrow that. | |||
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Folks, Having lived in Cody, WY I'm pretty familiar with Gunwerks and Best of the West. I knew and discussed long range shooting with those guys on several occasions. To answer Lavaca's question I think either Gunwerks or Best of the West could fill his needs. I might choose Best of the West just because I know John Porter of BOW quite well. I'm personally not a long range fan but John did say and I can't disagree that if you can shoot well at 500 yards you can shoot better at 200. I think hunting here in the Western US or in the mountains where you can see game at long range the custom turrets etc. make sense if you lean that way. I don't. I know where my rifles shoot out to 400. With a range finder, a plain vanilla 3x9 scope and a 30-06 I can accomplish that. I think the extra time it takes to fiddle with ranging game adjusting turrets etc. can allow game that extra few seconds it takes to walk out of the picture. I think this is particularly true in Africa. I don't recall a single African animal that I shot where custom turrets would have been useful. You see the long range guys shooting animals at long range on TV but that doesn't mean it's necessary or even the best way to hunt there. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Twelve to Fifteen years ago our local SCI chapter had a long range shoot and Gunwerks came out with demos. Everyone got a turn shooting at 9" steel. I used a 7mm Remington. We also had a spotter calling the wind. I think they were using Nightforce back then. Shot one at 500 yards-hit. Shot two at 750 yards-hit. Shot three at 1000 yards-miss high. Instructor felt the barrel and said it was hot. Others had shot in front of me. We let it cool down for five minutes. Shot four at 1000 yards hit. Shot five at 1000 yards hit. This was from a cardboard table with sandbags. I was extremely impressed with their rifles. They seem to be a great rifle for mountain hunting. In Africa, I have never shot over 300 yards. 95% of my shots are probably under 150 yards. Not sure if their rifle is needed in Africa, but if you want it, why not. | |||
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Originally posted by Saeed: People who hunt wild areas, not a farm, try to carry as little as possible. When one has to walk up to 35 kilometers a day, anything inessential is left behind. But, of course hunting off the back of the truck on a farm one can have as much as he wishes of these gadgets! Don’t laugh, I do enjoy hunting on farms, and I do shoot off the back of the truck. When in Rome…. I'm with you on this. What I find hard to comprehend is for years when hunting in remote areas, we went as light and simple as possible. Now, I've seen some guys that carry huge bipods/tripods and all manner of gear. I saw a video on YouTube the other night with a guy that was hunting sheep and had everything but the kitchen sink on his back. He got ready to take about a 300yd shot and pulled out a tripod that looked like something for a machine gun, attached his gun to it at the forearm and finally took the successful shot. I'm still trying to figure out why he didn't just lay his pack over a rock and rest his gun on it. | |||
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I personally think Gunwerks is overpriced, but they do put them together so they work. You need an accurate rifle, an honest scope, correct dope, and the rifle sighted in right on top of skill. If I want to shoot long range, I think I had better work out my own dope to whatever distance and know how many mils/MOA per click and be able to do that math in my head to put it in. For me, long range isn’t hard for elevation…. It’s the wind that I can’t learn how to read before shooting. I’ve seen guys who can ring steel at impressive distances. With one of these guys calling wind for me, shooting steel at 1000 isn’t that hard. The rifle isn’t the weak link. | |||
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I can digest the system's qualities, but I start throwing up at the $13K price tag. Give me a custom rifle in wood and steel with a ballistic turreted scope any day for that kind of money. Of course, I do not shoot game at ludicrously extended ranges, either. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Way overpriced for what you get, my gunsmith and I have put together rifles that will shoot right along with them for a fraction of the cost! For what they want for one of their systems you could buy a Rigby highland stalker and hunt with a classic African rifle! | |||
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I don't disagree with anything that's been said. I don't hunt on farms off the back of a truck, but I do have a rangefinder, and I carry it. Planning on getting new pair of rangefinder binos to eliminate another piece of gear. I'm not that I'm planning on cranking in exact range before every shot. I think you may have misunderstood what role I wanted this rifle to fill. Lately, I've been trying to minimalize -- less rifles not more. On my last two safaris I carried one rifle, a .416 with a 1-6 X 30 scope. Great on buffalo, but the scope isn't great in low light situations. I've shot leopards with that rifle but the last one didn't go well because I screwed up and the scope isn't great for light gathering. I'd have been a lot better off with a rifle with a scope with more magnification and more light gathering. I want this rifle to fill two roles and the ballistic reticle allows it to do that. One, I'd like a rifle for leopard and croc that requires a very accurate shot at 100 yards more or less. Second, I want the rifle to be able to cover plains game out to around 300 to 400 yards, that's as far as I'll shoot. But hunting in Africa, you don't know what you'll hunt on any given day. I want to be able to switch from a 100 yd. zero to a 300 yard zero quickly and back as plans change. I know what my rifles do out to as far as I'm willing to shoot. But the conventional wisdom of sighting in 1.5" high at 100 doesn't work for me because I need to hit a postage stamp at a precise range -- somewhere close to 100. And reach out to medium ranges. Hence the choice. I'm not looking for a "long range" rifle. Long range to me is over 200 yards. I'm looking for an accurate rifle and I think this fits the bill. I want it to serve two roles and to be able to change the zero to serve each role. I think it does that too. Will I use all the bells and whistles? No. Is it more than I need? Probably. | |||
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An accurate rifle is essential for hunting. I know, practically any rifle will do in the field as a general rule. But, for certain situations, cros for instance and long range shooting, an accurate rifle gives one confidence. My old 375/404, which I have built here, doen't look much. Wrong stock, and there is a slight angle cut on the barrel that makes it look like it is not tight to the action. My mistake, but what does one expect from a gunsmith with no training! This rifle has always shot extremely well with the original Barnes X bullets, and our own Walterhogs. A few days I go I tried my new ammo loaded for this years safari. 0.365" for 5 shots at 100 yards. You miss, it is your fault!  | |||
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There was an article on the latest Gunwerks rifle in the American Rifleman that came in the mail today. Pricey, like Mike said earlier. For me, I have a number of custom built Model 70 rifles, and those, mounted with Swarovski Z-5 3.5X14s with custom ballistic turrets from Outdoorsman's, combined with either my Leica or Swarovski Range finding binos have been all that I have ever needed for most of my African game from close up to out to over 430 yards. They have also performed flawlessly in Mexico on Coues Deer and on Desert Mule Deer out to over 550 yards, and have further got it done on many hunts throughout the Western States and Alaska. BUT, I certainly understand and see lavaca's point, and every man has his own needs, wants and desires and what fits one may not work for another.  | |||
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Gunwerks is just using Leupold scopes (mostly) with the CDS ballistic turret system. Leupold normally supply the first custom ballistic turret free after the purchase of a new Leupold CDS capable scope and then charge about $80 or so for any other custom turrent to suit another cartridge. From Leupold's instruction on setting up a custom turret dial, you must actually shoot and zero the rifle at the range you chose to zero it at with the load you will be using. Most would zero at 200yds so you are getting the best trajectory and can use the rifle by estimating or ranging the distance and then estimating hold under or over (without dialing up the range using the ballistic turret). The custom dial is zero stopped at the zero range when fitted to the turret and as far as I'm aware you can't wind it down from the set zero. I don't know that the turret is engraved for ranges below the set zero if the zero stop is disengaged i.e. less than the 200yds setting. For distances greater than 200yds the custom dial is turned to the target distance which has preferably been ranged, not guessed. Good rangefinders measure the angle of the shot and give a distance to target taking into account the uphill/downhill angle. Visually a long range target maybe estimated to be say 400yds but taking into account a steep uphill or downhill angle, the actual ballistic range could be say 340yds with a danger of shooting over top of the animal if not using good range finding. With zero stopping on the custom dial, once shooting is completed, the dial is wound back to it's zero stop where the scope then just assumes the normal 200yd zeroed trajectory. You don't have to use the ballistic turret. If an animal is not hanging around then just shoot as normal using your estimate of range and hold over if the range requires it. No need to get knickers in a twist because a scope has a ballistic turret, same for using a rangefinder, just leave it in your pack if you don't want to use it. | |||
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Saeed, In the words of John Wayne, "That's good shootin". Eagle, I get what you're saying. I'm using a Kahles. I didn't like the Leupold reticle. But if I set my basic range at 100, I can go up from there. Now that's not what the rifle system was designed for, but I'm convinced it will work for what I want. I'm not going to be shooting at 1,000 yards. | |||
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KMG, I'm going with .300 Win. Mag. Both because of ammo availability and because I don't need the long range capability of the .300 PRC. | |||
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So the questions would be, why not just go for a high quality factory rifle and save some. I speak under correction, but think the Gunwerks rifles are guaranteed 1 MOA at 1000 yards. If you are not planning on using it to its capabilities or even near its capabilities, why pay the $12K where you could purchase a rifle for half that, that outperforms most other rifles. Just a question, trying to figure out your line of thought. If its just a want, that's good enough to me. No man should need to explain any gun purchase. Marius Goosen KMG Hunting Safaris Cell, Whats App, Signal + 27 82 8205387 E-mail: info@huntsafaris.co.za Website: www.huntsafaris.co.za Skype: muis19820603 Check us out on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kmghuntingsafaris Instagram: @kmg_hunting_safaris | |||
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Might look at their new Werkman rifle setup. Has their revic scope and many of the other features that are on their other rifles. The price is $4950. So considerably less. Bruce | |||
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Marius, As you said, it's because I want one. For the reasons I've explained above. | |||
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You want one. That is all it takes. Good luck. | |||
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I have a Gunwerks Magnus chambered in 7mm Remington Magnum. It has a 22” barrel and the optic is Leupold Mark 5 3x18-44. I am really pleased with this rifle. Accuracy is as advertised. The stock design is what really sets it apart. Recoil is a gentle straight back push. It is easy to spot your impacts especially with a suppressor (Dead Air Nomad 30) I had mine setup with Gunwerks ammo utilizing 168gr Berger bullets. Gunwerks offers Berger or Hammer bullets. Without getting too far in the weeds I do not plan on using either of those bullets in Africa. The Berger’s go in and blow up and the copper Hammer bullets shed their petals. Both options do not retain weight and are not what I am looking for in a Plains Game hunt. I want to use a good penetrating bullet for my plains game hunt next year, currently working with Sciroccos, Federal Terminal Ascent, and Barnes ttsx. Once I get my penetrating bullet load all figured out I will have Leupold cut a new turret. | |||
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That is the only “reason” you need. Enjoy it! | |||
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I am surprised nobody has asked where and what are you hunting? My first reaction to the question was - who knows? becasuse as phrased it's like saying: What do you think of Tikka T3 for hunting in North America? Africa is entire continent with vast and varied envirobments. So I will ask - Where and what are you hunting and has the PH advised you of typical shot distances? Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi?[/] [i] Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Mike, I kind of described what I wanted before, but this is a light rifle. I've carried light rifles ranging from a .375 H&H, to a .300 WSM and currently carry a .30-06 when I carry a light rifle. I haven't on the last two trips. I don't need the PH to tell me about the ranges of anticipated shots. I know. I'm looking for an extremely accurate rifle to fill two roles. One, I've hunted leopards with my .416 and a 1-6x Swaro illuminated. Not ideal, but it worked like a charm until this year. The objective is simply too small and not enough magnification. I need more magnification and more light gathering for leopard at close range (100-125 yards). Same thing for croc. I'm very comfortable with my .416 out to 200, it's six inches low, and while I get a little uncomfortable at 300, it's 21 inches low, that's as far as I'll shoot with it. With the ballistic reticle, I have the perfect 100 yard rifle for leopard and croc and the perfect plains game rifle beyond that. Either species on the plains, kudu in the mountains, sitatunga, etc. That's my reasoning if I have to explain myself. | |||
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Target shooting and hunting are not the same! | |||
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Agreed. | |||
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Let me put it another way. A had decent factor rifle, in the hands of a decent hunter, is infinitely better than a tack driving rifle in the hands of the average hunter in the field. Of course, an accurate rifle is always better, but, again, under field conditions, it is the man behind it that matters. | |||
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In my trips to Africa, I have yet to need to shoot past 200 yards. I have had my share of misses at close in shots due to my lack of skill. For me, when I practice for Africa, I shoot from sticks out to 200 yards even though my rifles will all shoot way out. For sheep hunting, I went to the FTW SAAM course and learned how to set up for a long shot. I have made 3 very long shots on sheep, all were on the shoulder, all required a follow up where upon I missed several times. The bottom line is - "Make your first shot count". On the long shots, the bullets did not pass through nor do the damage I had hoped. Lesson for me is - "Get closer" | |||
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Lavaca: In my humble opinion the distance you have indicated for Leopard can hardly be considered close range though if one chooses such shots you will very likely need upgraded optics and also consider that the margin of error will also be far greater and to be avoided. Normal shooting distances (for me) are between 40 to 70 yards max.) and any decent scope can do the job effectively. My clients have never missed nor lost their Leopard and on rare occasion have I had to relocate the blind due to being busted. | |||
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Furthest I have ever sat away from a leopard bait was just over a 100 yards. And shooting off a rest at that distance SHOULD be a piece of cake! I have heard some PHs saying they have had clients who hyperventilated when the leopard arrives. May be that is the reason many wound or miss. One normally gets plenty of time on a leopard. On one occasion the leopard came up to the bait, and turned around to go down again. I shot him. There was no doubt about whether it was a male or fe, he was big and obviously a male. I was confident of my shot, and he dropped and died with 30 yards. I have seen individuals who are extremely good rifle shots, shoot very poorly in the field. | |||
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Fulvio, I agree that 100-125 is on the longish side for leopard, but mine have been between 75 and 125. The last was set up for lion and was on the longish side of that. Had all the time in the world if I could have taken a quartering to lying down shot. Needed more magnification for that, so a new rifle and "enhanced" optics seems to be in order. It's as good an excuse as any. | |||
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What scope are you using now? Mine has been on my rifle from day one. A Leupold 2.5-8X. I make sure it is set on 2.5 as we leave the truck, in case I have to make a quick off hand shot. I adjust the scope to the required magnification as required when shooting. I have shot animals down to the size of impala with it at over 400 yards. True, I would have wished for more magnification, but under the circumstances it worked. | |||
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Saeed, totally agree, normally.. The scope on my .416 is a Z6 1-6 Swaro illuminated. Great scope. It works great for just about everything. Plenty of magnification and I like to be able to crank it down as well. Just wasn't enough trying to sneak a bullet over a 4" diameter branch into the throat of a leopard lying down on a branch behind. Probably would have worked. Probably being the operative word. | |||
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Given that I've always wanted a leopard skin to throw across the back of the couch in the family room (as described by Ruark), I should have just shot him in the head, which was definitely doable. | |||
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Anxiously waiting for your report to read about the gory details. | |||
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