I was gently reviewing the prices of 470 NE at Midway and was stunned at the price increases since I last bought some about a year ago. Over $300 a box now !!

Any idea what gives?!?

The world metals market has been quite volatile for some time now. I think that you can find .470 NE ammo a little cheaper at Cheaper Than Dirt. (No pun intended)

I think there's been some greed influencing the industry -- metals are up, and demands really up for 223 and 308, so the bulk ammo prices increasing is reasonable, but metal cost is such a trivial part of that box of 470, that it's just been an excuse to see how high they can drive it.

If you realy do not like the price of factory ammo, buy a press and learn to reload. At the above price you will go a long way to pay for a reloading set-up, brass and bullets with only one or at the most TWO boxes of the factory stuff.

Keith

Another good reason to buy a new 450/400 3 inch.

When Hornady does put it out it's $79.99 at MidwayUSA. Softs or Solids! Hornady 450/400 3 inch ammo

quote:

Originally posted by H T:
I was gently reviewing the prices of 470 NE at Midway and was stunned at the price increases since I last bought some about a year ago. Over $300 a box now !!

Any idea what gives?!?

Amen brother, I don't even shoot the big boomers and I am affected by it my .222 from Nosler has almost doubled. I do dream of one day taking an African Safari with a new .375 but when I window shop on the ammo and look at the .416 ammo I can't believe how ridiculous it has gotten.

Thanks, Rusty. I went to check and they are out of stock and no back order. I then went to "dirt" and they have them in stock at about $66 or $63 for club members.

On a related note, I just saw AA trap, skeet, or sp. clay boxes at Walmart for $7.97.....wow. Most places shot is over $50.00/bag of 25#, which makes just the lead in a box of 1 1/8 ounce shotshells cost about $3.50.

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
If you realy do not like the price of factory ammo, buy a press and learn to reload. At the above price you will go a long way to pay for a reloading set-up, brass and bullets with only one or at the most TWO boxes of the factory stuff.

Keith

+1

loading components are way up too, but even 200 a box for 470 was unjustified. I'm in the metal business and while the prices are high and volatile, in the last year they really haven't changed that much, with the possible exception of lead. the copper/brass market isn't all that different. Now answer the question of why 17HMR ammo is 10-12 a box and the little 17 machII is 5. I think we are seeing a supply/demand process at work. With federal, winchester, and black hills having just about their whole production going to government, that leaves remington and hornady the only 2 major players. What i really am curious about is what happens when we pull out of iraq, and surplus ammo hits, and the major players are all trying to sell us ammo again. However like hog killers says, reload reload reload. doesn't take long to pay off a couple or 3 hundred dollars worth of equipment, and you have that forever.

I live in So. Az. right next to a LARGE copper mine. I am also retired from a copper mine. Copper is at it's highest ever and there is full employement at all the mines in the area. I had to buy a battery for a Buick a little before Thanksgiving and since it was a special vented one that fit under the rear seat I had to get it at the Buick dealer. The Parts manager told me ALL battery prices had gone up a flat 25% 1 November. I would assume due to increased lead prices. Add that to the increased demand for 223 and 308 in Iraq and other spots it's not hard to understand the price increasing.

Well hold on then.........pretty much all ammo will be going up 5%-25% this month. The retailers have been giving us the heads up for a few months now.

Reloading components too............

Ouch!!!

Bob

Something stinks here - explain, please:
At Able Ammo, Hornady 450/400NE is $68.22/BX of 20 rds while Federal 470NE is $286.69/BX of 20 rds & Norma "African" 470NE is $145.06/BX of 10 rds. Why so much difference??????
Able has always been one of my 'best source' places for ammo that I don't reload, especially for waterfowl shot shells.

This is one of the reasons I stop at every small sporting goods/gun store I see. I recently stopped in at one and bought 4 boxes of .416 Rem with 400 gr Swifts for about $50/box, CTD has them for over 111/box. Now they had been there long enough they had some dust on them, but I can do a lil dusting for a bargain.

War - ammo/armament demand
China/India - huge surge in lead use (batteries)

These are two major issues I have heard re the price of ammo.

Interestingly carbon fibre demand is very high for wind generator/turbines, thus carbon sports gear is going up a lot as well.

TrapperP, went to Able 450/400 like other sites mentioned same o same o out of stock.

Get a grip( not gripe) gentlemen! We live and work largely in a MARKET ECONOMY (USA). Prices of anything tend to be driven by the demand for the product. There is a WAR going on, and quite a lot of capacity is geared toward that market(like it or not)! China is emerging as a major market player, and their appetite is insatiable. Our demands for sporting ammo-especially the larger"African" type ammo is quite small compared to the rest of the worlds demands for non ferrous metals, and thus we tend to "suck hind tit"! I too have lots of large caliber rifles and pistols, and I don't shoot them nearly as much as I would like to. That's the price we pay to enjoy a hobby that is not practiced by the mainstream. Also: if GrosVentreGeorge is worried about the price of ammo for his desired African trip, he had better study more. Ammo will be the least of his price concerns. I'll get off the soap box for now. Be glad gents that we can still get this stuff at all! There are plenty of folks who would be happy to deny us access to ammo AND the guns to fire it! Cheers

Aside from all the commodity increases resulting in the price of ammo and components rising, Federal has been gouging people for a long time on 470 Nitro and 416 Rigby ammo. I don't see any apparent reason other than they are quasi-uncommon calibers, and they can get away with it. Hornady proved this when they brought out Rigby ammo at $70 per box compared to Federal's $180. For the most part, all the other factory big bores are vastly more reasonable in their ammo prices. (416 Remington, 458 Win, 458 Lott, 375 H&H, Wby calibers, etc.)

If you really want a shock, take a look at the price of 100 Norma 470 cases!

Bingo Clayman!!!!!!!!!! Welcome to the free market economy. You are correct, and if "we" buy Hornady ammo and not Federal, then Federal will either stop making the stuff or make it and sell at a more competitive price. The same thing has(is) happening with bullets, and we are only too eager to pay a terrible price for all measure of premium bullets to shoot even prarie dogs!!!! The case might be made for super premium bullets in a DG situation, but prarie dogs? Let us not forget that one hell of a lot of DG was killed with regular bullets before the advent of the super premiums. Once again, it's the free market at work, and all the bellyachin' in the world won't change it! Cheers!

Guys,

Everything is going up in price all over the world. Oil is now over US$100 a barrel and the dollar is falling......... don't expect anything to get cheaper for the foreseeable future.

You American should think yourself lucky. The Brit Government slap sooooo much tax on fuel. Some garages are selling at UK£1.25 a litre.... that's around US$2.50 a litre which is close to US$12 a US gallon....... just think how much that jacks up the price of everything.

Well put Shakari. This is one old Marine who does realize how well off we Yanks have it. Perhapspart of the problem for us is that we haven't felt many tough times, and we don't realize how well off we are. Cheers

May want to try Conley preceison. They have made the ammo for my last two trips and are more reasonable than alot out there with top quality components.

http://www.cpcartridge.com/premiumrifle.htm

Federal jacks up the price of everything. What I don't reload for, I buy Remington.

Concerning outrageous fuel prices, I just spent a few days in El Salvador. Gasoline there was $3.23 a liter. Do the math.

Last year when I was hunting the Selous, my PH used a .460 Weatherby. He told me he pays $58.00 a round for solids. Remington Factory .375 H&H A Frames are now $74.00 a box. 18 months ago, they were $51.00 at Midway. Also at Midway, Hornady Interlock 300 gr. .375 bullets were $14.95 a box/50. Now, they're over $20.00. Just bought some more because of the anticipated increases. It's getting too expensive to a poor man to shoot anything but .22's, which I do a lot.

I think Federal is really cramming it to us on all calibers, and their factory loads in my 7mm Rem and .375 are not very accurate at all. The gal at Dakota told me other customers are saying the same thing. The trophy bonded loads are particularly overpriced.

Well, I generally load my own ammo, better performance and lower cost-- but to paint the true picture how about the Federal Blue box ammo in 30-30 for $5.99 a box, 30-06, 308, 270 and 300 WM at $7.99 a box, This was avalable at Cabela's. Several bullet weights each chambering and in addition a $10.00 rebate from Federal on two boxes.
So, I feel the pain on getting gouged, however, I think the smart shopper can still find a bargin. Now if we could find 470 Nitro express at $5.99 a box we would all be smiling!

Am I the only one to see the humor in folks complaining about ammo prices for a $10K rifle that is best suited for use on another continent?

Money's money, Duckear. Just because you own a rifle worth ten grand doesn't mean you're wealthy enough to blow three hundred bucks on twenty rounds of ammo, or even more, for that matter.

My 25'06 ammo has almost doubled in price, and that rifle's worth three grand, at least. I bought it during my earning years. My Social Security cost of living increase doesn't pay for that.

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
Am I the only one to see the humor in folks complaining about ammo prices for a $10K rifle that is best suited for use on another continent?

The issue is gouging and by any standard Federal is gouging in my opinion particularly on its big bore ammo. I elected a long time ago to vote with my feet and started reloading. That said, I think it is unconscionable to charge over $15/round for something that costs them $2/round. I can assure you that the $10K rifle you alluded to does not have a mark up of 650% on it. I am all for making a profit but what Federal charges on it's big bore ammo is absurd.

Well the good news is that I took an inventory and have 4 boxes of the Federal 470 stuff still on hand, plus 3 boxes of Woodleigh bullets. Criminy, that's $1,500 retail.

I do reload, but have reloaded the 470 only for practice. I've used factory ammo in this one instance - dangerous game hunts - because the gun is regulated with Federal ammo and also the lack of availability of their 216 primer means in using RL 15 I have to use an overpowder filler of some sort.

But at $300 a box, I'm willing to make that shift!!

My comments were mostly in jest.

But it is all about supply and demand.

I started reloading years ago so I could shoot my 9mm pistol more often. I reload my hunting ammo for bullet/load selection and accuracy. I reload my 416 Rigby purely for financial reasons.

But if there was such an obscene amount of money to be made in the 470 ammo market, why did it take so long for someone to come along and compete with Federal?

Economics can be a real b*tch when you are on the wrong side of the supply/demand equation.

And, as above

Yeah, MJines. You're right on the money. Federal a few years ago was trash ammo. Then they got a marketing firm to really spruce up their boxes and started advertising heavily on the hunting channels and gave a lot of ammo to outdoor writers to pump up. They bought Trophy Bonded and get an arm and a leg for those loads. I only own five centerfires, but, without fail, Remington loads, both yellow box and premium, are uniformly more accurate in all of them. I reload for two calibers and three rifles, 7mm Rem and .375H&H, but I hunt factory Remington stuff in the .375. Federal just doesn't provide consistent acuracy in anything I own, including a custom Douglas-barreled 25'06 and a Dakota 7mm Rem. Federal's a ripoff.

The price of metal has increased but counting brass and lead would still be meaningless in the price structure. Maybe 20 bucks for a 470 for 20 rounds and I suspect thats way high. You guys are right, it's a rip!

I reload my own ammo for both my 500 and the 404. Even doing that, with the price of components here, it costs me about US$15 a round for the 500 and US$10 a round for the 404.

Face it guys, nothing in life is gonna go down in price.......... - All that said, look at the price of an African safari, and then ask yourself if it's worth shaving a dollar or two off the cost of the ammo you'll be using. You want quality, you gotta pay for it and accept that it costs what it costs.

when i bought the mini-30 several yrs ago, i had some $$$ left over... i bought 4000 rds of the then-cheap wolf 122gr sp... the mini-30 will shoot about a 2" group with a cool barrel with this stuff...as the gun gets hotter, it starts stringing them... but at $104/1000 it was too cheap to pass up... now i see the same stuff at over $200/case... glad i bought it when i did...

My policy has always been: You can never have too many guns or too much ammo. And, I have followed that policy religiously.

I guess I'll interject my opinion. I think the reason for price difference on the 470 ammo is this. Most people when they think about rounds with "nitro express" in the name, they think of double rifles, which to those who are uneducated on the subject means $$$. Most people are completely unaware that you can aquire a double for less than $10,000, hell less than $5,000. Most people think of these $50,000 to $100,000 and up Holland and Hollands and such. So basically they figure if you can afford the double you can afford to feed it. Sort of like a high end sports car. If you can afford a Mclaren you can afford the insurance and gas for a Mclaren. Only in this situation they're expecting you to carry Mclaren insurance on you 1991 Ford Mustang.

Locally, factory 375 H&H is going anywhere from $65 to $85 a box of 20 for Remington and Federal factory fodder. Personally I refuse to pay that, as I began reloading years ago and can get cases for about $1 a piece, and reload it for around $1 a round, $2 with premium bullets. If it were all metal prices 470 nitro would be about $90 to $110 a box of 20.

I anticipate being able to offer 470 NE factory ammunition for $150.00 to $180.00 per box of twenty.

The European brass is very expensive due to the week dollar. I am working with Jamison brass right now to see if that will be a viable alternative. I am guardedly optimistic about the results.

There are issues relating to loading for double rifles that aren't present when loading for magazine rifles.

As regards the "gouging" factor, well, yes and no. Federal and other large operations only have so many loading and brass making machines going at a given time. Making NE cases requires even more set-up and adjusting time than a large run of 30-06 or 300 WSM.

I lose sleep over the question of making ammunition that will regulate in a large variety of rifles.

In general, I, "bite the bullet" and use RWS, Lapua or Norma brass (in that order). The new Hornady brass really isn't a huge deal compared to the established brands. It is (mostly) American made, and American brass amnufacturers are pretty indignant when presented with a contract requiring them to produce uniform and straight brass. Try spinning Remington and Winchester brass on a good (i.e. not an RCBS) concentricity fixture. Try not to cry when you see the needle on your dial indicator or dial test indicator jump around like a volswagen bug driving perpendicular to irrigation corrugations.....

Don't know if they'll custom make small runs of brass, but have you tried contacting Starline? I've always been well impressed by their quality -- never put any instruments on it, but I've never heard anything but praise for their quality.

Shamelessly lifted from the "Classified" section!

1. 2 FACTORY BOXES OF NEW UNPRIMED 450/400 3"jeffery rim(.065 max. thick). one box is BELL,original box 20rds. The other is 20 rds. of Bertran Bullet Co.,in the original box marked 450/400 3" thick rim,slight discolration but unfired. ALL 40 ROUNDS FOR $65 SHIPPED IN THE CONUS

2. 1 BOX OF BERTRAM BULLET CO. 470 NITRO,19 ROUNDS,once fired,original factory box. $30 shipped in the CONUS

3. 1 FACTORY BOX OF BELL 500 NITRO EXPRESS,NEW UNPRIMED CASES, 20 ROUNDS IN ORIGINAL FACTORY BOX, 3 1/4". $60 SHIPPED IN THE CONUS(SOLD PENDING FUNDS)

4. 1 FACTORY BOX OF BELL 577 NITRO EXPRESS,NEW UNPRIMED BRASS,3",20 ROUNDS STORED LOOSED IN THE FACTORY BOX AND 3 PEICES SLIGHTLY BENT AT THE BULLET END(easily reformed/reshaped).$60 SHIPPED IN THE CONUS (SOLD PENDING FUNDS)

5. C-H TOOL & DIE reloading ides for 577 Nitro Exp., 3", 3 die set with 2 shell holders, original C&H box, 1 set of dies has faint surface rust from storage(does not affect the die or working of die) $145.00 shipped in the CONUS

6. COMPLETE LEE LOADER IN 222,IN ORIGINAL BOX,ALL PEICES/PARTS, SLIGHTLY USED. $20 SHIPPED IN CONUS

7. LYMAN RELOADING TOOL NO. 310, NEW IN THE BOX UNSED,HANDLES ONLY,uses any lyman 310 die. $10 SHIPPED IN THE CONUS. (SOLD PENDING FUNDS)

FIRST I'LL TAKE'M GETS THEIR PICK. YOPU CAN EMAIL ME AT wesleytimyahoo.com, PM me here or call at 843-343-5230
Thanks
Wesley

______________________________________________