I’m traveling to Zimbabwe next month with an overnight at the City Lodge in Johannesburg. I’m flying United Airlines starting in Atlanta, to Newark, then to S.A.

I flew to Zim like this last year but didn’t have any firearms and was able to pack everything in my carry on and my backpack. I gotta tell you, it was some easy traveling! I used the outfitter’s rifle which was perfectly adequate.

Anything to consider or be worried about should I decide to take my own guns this time?

This short notice, I take it you do not have a pre approved SA 520 or a meet and greet service. And it is probably too late to have that service added.

So:

First off you should down load the SA 520 form and have it all filled out. Look on line to make sure you do it right. I like to do mine on the computer and then print it out.

Make about 3 or more copies of the SA 520 form and attach a copy of your 4457 to it.

City Lodge is a nice walk and good place to stay, great breakfast.

Walk back to the airport early (I like 2 1/2 to 3 hours) for check in at the terminal in the morning. This is where it comes down to who you have check you in, sometimes they weigh your ammo and other times they just look to make sure it is locked in a case. My last trip, I needed to take it out of my checked bag and weighted and after it was weighted my case was tagged to be shipped separate. So I could not place it back in my checked bag. Then, Get direction on where to take your firearms for inspection for your flight. It is a short walk, you just need to head in the right direction.

All the while have some bills available for tips (I call it bribes) if someone give directions and walked you to your inspection area.

I forgot that your carryon bag on South African Air has an 18 pound limit, and I have had my bags weighed 3 out of 4 times that I have flown with SA going over. Coming back has never been an issue.

You did it right the first time.

I just returned from a hunt with Adam Clements. For multiple reasons, I've always brought my own rifles. We've all noticed the increasing red tape associated with bringing our rifles. While hunting with Adam I checked out his "camp rifles". I expected to find a beaten up rifle but was surprised that he had two .375s and two .300 WM's, all of them excellent. On my next trip I will strongly consider leaving my rifles behind. If anyone is interested in doing this I would recommend that they check with their PH as to what he has in camp.

I take great pride in my rifles and own them so that I can use them. If I can't shoot my rifle, I ain't going.

I make it an absolute rule to never, ever, pay a bribe in Africa!

My PH arranges for all the necessary documents, a representative meets us by immigration, and takes care of everything!

Once you open the door to bribes, you create more problems for future hunters.

I've done it both ways. Definitely easier traveling without guns. I didn't have any problems with the camp guns the first two times.

The last time I used a camp rifle it was fitted with a suppressor. That did cause a problem with balance for me. It took me longer to get steady on the sticks with the heavy muzzle.

I believe that I'll be using my own rifles from now on.

Do you still have the option to check the guns through to your destination and avoid SAP hassle? Of course bigger odds on theft, while they lay in the airport all night.

I think that it still might be possible to add a meet and greet, but maybe not the pre-approved SAPS rifle permit. Always nice to have assistance in getting through the process, if possible. I recall flying to the eastern cape from Joburg one morning and I had a meet and greet to assist. Another couple was doing it on their own and had some major problems with their flight. After taking care of me, my meet and greet was asked by the couple to assist them. Their booking agent had put them on a regional airlines that did not accept rifles. I can't recall the airlines at this moment, but it was not SAA's regional flight. He was able to get them ticketed on my flight, but they had to pay for two new tickets. And, they paid him for his help as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Arniet:
Do you still have the option to check the guns through to your destination and avoid SAP hassle? Of course bigger odds on theft, while they lay in the airport all night.

I don’t think you can do that through South Africa!

If you fly Emirates, through Dubai, you don’t see your rifles until you arrive at your destination!

This is a major plus in traveling with guns.

I think the decision to take your own rifle or use a camp rifle depends a lot on the country you are hunting. For example, in my opinion, taking your own rifle to Cameroon or Australia is just not worth the hassle. On the other hand, taking your own rifle to Zimbabwe is a piece of cake. This is an area where a good booking agent or travel agent can be a huge help.

Mike: I must humbly disagree with your statement about your hunting destination determining whether to use camp rifles or not. My biggest problem when checking my own rifles has been with the US CBP. I’ve had CBP agents tell me that Leupold scopes are made in Germany and need a Form 4570. Luckily they’re stamped “Made in the USA” right on the tube of the scope. I’ve also had an agent tell me I needed a 4570 form on a non- serial numbered range finder. The average CBP Agent has a room temperature IQ and delights in hassling law abiding hunters like you and me. After my first two African hunts I went with the first rate camp rifles supplied by my PH. In my last three trips I’ve used very accurate camp rifles topped by Leupold scopes. My PH’s silenced Savage .308 is like shooting a match air rifle- quiet and minimal recoil. I also don’t check baggage- I use a single carryon and waltz through Customs without the circle jerk of Baggage Claim.

I'm not going without my own rifles, nor my own ammo I've manufactured myself. When I can no longer take my rifles, I'm done with Safaris. It's that important to me. I get it some folks don't have the same attachment to using their rifles. My son is one of those types.

Strange this.

We go to places where we dive.

There are all sorts of equipment one can hire at the destination.

Apart from the tanks, I take all my own equipment.

Picking what I know will fit my purpose is half the fun.

I take underwater cameras, and all sorts of things that make my trip more enjoyable.

And there is no question that I tend to have more fun than a lot of people on the resorts.

Same thing when we go hiking, or skiing.

The hunting is even more involved for me.

I have built my own rifles, and noting made can even come close to them, for me.

I spend time preparing everything, it gives me great pleasure, and this adds to the pleasure I get when hunting.

At the camp, I get people laugh at me, as I absolutely refuse to let anyone touch my rifle.

At a new camp we just arrived at, first day after the hunt in the evening, I could not see my rifle.

I asked where it was.

Pierre said someone took it to clean it!!??

I said he better bring it back RIGHT NOW.

Or his wife will be looking for another husband.

Everyone laughed, and understood what I meant.

Adapted from the Marine Corps creed to suit the battle of dangerous game hunting:

“This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.

Without me, my rifle is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straight at my prey who is trying to kill me. I must shoot my prey before he kills me.

My rifle and I know that what counts in this battle is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our shots, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count.

My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strengths, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel.

I will keep my rifle clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready. We will become part of each other.

Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and I are the masters of our destiny. We are the saviors of my life.

So be it, my rifle and I!”

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Adapted from the Marine Corps creed to suit the battle of dangerous game hunting:

“This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.

Without me, my rifle is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straight at my prey who is trying to kill me. I must shoot my prey before he kills me.

My rifle and I know that what counts in this battle is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our shots, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count.

My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strengths, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel.

I will keep my rifle clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready. We will become part of each other.

Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and I are the masters of our destiny. We are the saviors of my life.

So be it, my rifle and I!”

LOL.

Damn right!

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I think the decision to take your own rifle or use a camp rifle depends a lot on the country you are hunting. For example, in my opinion, taking your own rifle to Cameroon or Australia is just not worth the hassle. On the other hand, taking your own rifle to Zimbabwe is a piece of cake. This is an area where a good booking agent or travel agent can be a huge help.

FYI, I have taken rifles and ammo to Australia 4 years in a row. Absolutely no problems.

There are certain things a man does NOT share.

In my loading and shooting room, I have 4 computers.

Anyone needs to access the Internet is always welcome to use one of 3.

The 4th one is my own, with my work on it.

My chair has a sign saying IF YOU SIT HERE YOU WILL BE SHOT!

One day I went up to get something, and coming down found Walter sitting my chair with his fingers hovering the keyboard.

He said “I will use this computer. And you are NOT going to shoot me!”

I had an almost empty can of Pepsi on the desk.

I got an air pistol, and loaded it.

Everyone was laughing, including Walter.

He said “That pistol is not loaded”

I shot the can!

Walter flew out of the chair.

He never sat there again!

An old Bedouin man was here, he said in Arabic “German’s cannot understand it when Arabs say they will do something!”

More laughter!

Some people just can not understand the HOUSE rules.

My house my rules.

Your house your rules.

Anymore, I enjoy travel lot more with just carry on and using camp rifles
With everything going on and al the bureaucracy running rampant , life is too short to have them hassle me
I get to use my guns here at home aplenty and that’s good enough

If you choose the right country to hunt, and choose the right airline s to travel on, you have problems.

I am so glad I do not have to deal with South African bullshit any more.

Mark Young hooked us up with a meet and greet in RSA that was fabulous....

I guess it’s a cost/benefit analysis.

How much more enjoyment do you get using your own guns than a generic gun (no matter how nice or functional)?

My trip to Australia essentially added a day because we had to be in town for a business day to deal with the rifle paperwork on leaving. I shot both my Banteng and water Buffalo with my double.

I can see the headaches and the costs getting high enough that it’s not worth it, even if it’s possible.

I also understand there are a few destinations that you plain cannot bring a sporting arm in.

If it gets to too much hassle but I still want to do the hunt, I will use the outfitter’s guns. I’ve done that with birds.

I’d say Australia’s rules weren’t that bad- no hitting up for bribes or unreasonable fees… just time consuming.

Cameroon… time consuming and corruption. If I go back there, I will really have to think on it.

But if the gun rental costs about the same as bringing my own, then I’m bringing my own, even if it’s some airport hassle.

$50 a day for rental plus $10/round for ammo? I get the prices are more there, but I’m not buying the damn thing…

Hunting with my firearms and ammunition is a great part of the fun. I use meet and greet to speed the firearms process up. If I have to rent a firearm, I'm not going.

I never hesitated in taking my rifles on safari's. But having all paper work done correctly and using a tuff pak for transport.

Mike

Overall, I have no attachment to my rifles I guess. I love use them but don’t lose sleep when I use someone else’s. It is a tool; no more, no less. I don’t include them in my pics. I absolutely have a favorite and it has travelled many places but as times change and things get harder there will be trips that rifle stays home. It is just not worth the hassle to me. I was without my rifle on my first safari for 9 out of 10 days. My bags and rifle showed up on Day 9. I shot some really good trophies on that trip with the camp rifle. It is just not a big deal to me like it is to others.

My rifles and ammunition are part of the experience. They are made to fit me. The ammo has been tested. The scopes and mounts work. If I can’t bring my own I chose not to go.
4wd

quote:

Originally posted by 4WD:
My rifles and ammunition are part of the experience. They are made to fit me. The ammo has been tested. The scopes and mounts work. If I can’t bring my own I chose not to go.
4wd

Exactly! +1

I think it is obvious that certain countries make it more difficult.

Avoid them.

Once they see they are loosing clients, things might change.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I think it is obvious that certain countries make it more difficult.

Avoid them.

Once they see they are loosing clients, things might change.

RSA has been pulling this bribery/ paperwork shit for donkey years and nothing has changed, nor will it ever…

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I'm not going without my own rifles, nor my own ammo I've manufactured myself. When I can no longer take my rifles, I'm done with Safaris. It's that important to me. I get it some folks don't have the same attachment to using their rifles. My son is one of those types.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Adapted from the Marine Corps creed to suit the battle of dangerous game hunting:

“This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.

Without me, my rifle is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straight at my prey who is trying to kill me. I must shoot my prey before he kills me.

My rifle and I know that what counts in this battle is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our shots, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count.

My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strengths, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel.

I will keep my rifle clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready. We will become part of each other.

Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and I are the masters of our destiny. We are the saviors of my life.

So be it, my rifle and I!”

LOL.

Damn right!

.....................................Ill second the above reply! MacD37

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I think it is obvious that certain countries make it more difficult.

Avoid them.

Once they see they are loosing clients, things might change.

RSA has been pulling this bribery/ paperwork shit for donkey years and nothing has changed, nor will it ever…

Exactly why you are not likely to see me hunt there!

There's another Marine Corp mantra that I like.

"This is my rifle [said while putting an M14 at port arms].

This is my gun [said while clutching one's crotch].

This is for fighting [said while pushing an M14 forward from port arms].

This is for fun [said while once again clutching one's crotch]."

Camp rifles as dangerous game rifles might be for fun, or might not.

But there's no doubt about my rifle.

My rifle is for fighting.

Usually threads about camp rifles say they are also usually good and I ve used them also..375, .375 NE, .470 NE however on my first trip to Zimbabwe I was lent a .416 Dakota from a well respected, well known, and great hunter. We went to the range to check it, pulled the trigger, it kicked me like a mule and the bullet never exited. To my eyes the chamber looked expanded but fortunately never exploded. It was repaired but I never got the story on why the bullet jammed.

The point is that there maybe a problem with a camp rifle or the hand loaded cartridges may not be correctly loaded. Since then I ve always brought my own well and tried and practiced PG and DG rifle to Namibia, SA, Zimbabwe and never had a problem with paper work except a minor one with Delta wanting to see my SA permit. Once did have to give a gratuity to departure inspectors in Bulawayo.

However, I ve always used Gracy Travel for SA permit through JHB.

There's still time to set up a meet and greet and SAP. I'm going to Zim in two weeks and was just notified by my travel agents to complete the info they need for that paperwork.

I booked the trip six months ago, why they waited this long is another story. They did give me impression they could still get it done. No problem.

I almost always take my rifles. It is important to me for the same reasons others have mentioned. I've had more hassle in the US than anywhere else. UK, Australia, et al were easier.

Let me add to Bwana338 post above, based on multiple trips thru Joburg since 1996:

1)Fill out and make copies of SAP 520 use BLACK ink and do NOT sign it. Online instructions will detail all of this; Be sure to add a day or two AFTER your return flight to USA leaves Joburg just in case of delay and be SURE to keep the SAP Temporary Firearm Permit in case flights are delayed and you have to stay overnight in Joburg on return;

2)Make a copy of your 4457 and attach; add another to your gun case and keep a third;

3)Make a copy of your passport photo/data page and attach it. Keep two more copies with your documents;

4)Make a copy of your hunt invitation letter from the Zim outfitter and attach it. Keep another in your docs;

5)Make a copy of your airline tickets and attach it. Make another for your docs.

It's basically cookbook. Follow the recipe, be pleasant and you'll likely find things work out.

Regards, Tim