My 416 rigby shoots 410 Woodlieghs and 400 DGSolid handloads into small little 100 yrd groups but unfortunately they are 3" apart. The woodleighs are 3" directly above the DGS. What would you do with this situation designed to kill buffalo in 6 weeks... Would sighting in the WL's 2" high and the DGS 1" low at 100 yrds be a decent option? I havent shot them at 50 yrds but the difference should be half... Thanks for your input!

You might try slowing the solids down or speeding the the softs up or both.

Dead Eye:
In all of my doubles, I drop the powder charge 2-3% for solids and the point of impact remains the same. Probably should do so in a large caliber bolt gun, too.
Cheers,
Cal

I'd try dropping the load of the higher shooting load a little.

I'd stert the reduction by about 1.5 grains and go from there.

As Lane said just manipulate the load until they come together.

Mark

On buffalo I'd be more concerned that I was sure where the soft was going to land. If the POI is a bit different on the solid, as long as you know what it is, it wouldn't be as big of a deal as it might on the softs, since your solids are likely going to be follow-up and sometimes at a running target. In my opinion bullet placement on buffalo with the first bullet is key.

I had the same issue with loads for the .416 rigby. got frustrated and changed up my bullets to northfork solids and softs after hearing all the great things. both shot at the same spot right off the bat. just another option to consider.

For Cape buffalo, I wouldn't worry too much if my 50 yard POIs were 1.5 inches apart, although closer would be better.

If I was going to use your .416 for other game at 100 or more yards, then I'd worry. In that case, I would not want the loads to hit more than an inch or so apart at 100 yards.

If you're not a handloader, you'll have to spend some cash experimenting with various factory loads.

Better to be a handloader!

Switch to Barnes and the problem will go away.

Why don`t you use the Woodleigh solid instead? I will never shoot a DGS in my rifle again-they foul my bore like crazy.However, they are very accurate and deadly.I dropped a big Makuti buff at 200yds with an older Hornady solid.I still see the shot and the buff's reaction play out over and over again in my head.Also lunged another Makuti buff with another Hornady solid.The bullet zipped on through like nothing anchoring my buff.People awe in amazement when they see those buff mounted.

Agree, if using Woodleigh Softs, why not Woodleigh Solids ?

What do they do at 50 yards?

Realistically, you will not be asked to shoot a buffalo at 100 yards.

Realistically, you don't want to shoot a buffalo at 100 paces.

Realistically, buffalo hunting is about getting close . . . Much closer than 100 yards.

If the variation between the groups is halved when you cut the yardage b half, you are ready to go hunting.

thanks for the replies guys, i will try to get some 410 fmj woodleighs and if i cant, i'll speed up the 400 DGS a bit to see if they come up a bit.

On a side note, i agree that the dgs/dgx bullets are horribly fouling. I spent the better part of the afternoon yesterday with a can of wipe out.

thanks again.

Dead eye

Re the Can of Wipe Out, suggest you get a Bottle of WIPE Out Patch Out - which is essentially the same as the foam but in liquid form.

It does the same job but with less mess (and the foam turns into a liquid anyway after a few minutes) and if you need to "foam it up a bit" you can do so with a brush (which I do anyway just to keep it working).

Hope that helps.

.

quote:

Originally posted by Dead Eye:
and if i cant, i'll speed up the 400 DGS a bit to see if they come up a bit.

If that does not work...try slowing them a bit to allow recoil to raise the barrel a little more before the bullet exits.

You do not need solids for buffalo.

I have given up using solids except for elephant.

I'm with shootaway shoot both the Woodleigh 410gr SP & 410gr FMJ. likely one will require .5 to 1.5grs more grains of powder (SP) than the other to get them to shoot to the same point of impact. The Woodleigh's are easy to regulate.

Barnes

If you don't get where you want with handholding, I would first forget about Solids as Saeed suggested. During my journey with trying to match softs and solids with (2) 416 Rigbys I could not beat Norma 400 grain softs and solids. They are Swift A-frames and Barnes solids. At 100 yards they group 3/4" or slightly less (when I'm on my game) of an inch center to center for the two groups.

Good luck

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanna:
On buffalo I'd be more concerned that I was sure where the soft was going to land. Is the POI is a bit different on the solid, as long as you know what it is, it wouldn't be as big of a deal as it might on the softs, since your solids are likely going to be follow-up and sometimes at a running target. In my opinion bullet placement on buffalo with the first bullet it key.

+1

This goes to show how rifles can differ.

Many years ago, we built a 416 Rigby Improved.

The year before, I hunted with a 416 Weatherby, so I decided to start off with the same load I hunted with.

The rifle had a 1.5-5 scope on it.

I loaded 3 rounds with Trophy Bonded Bear Claws, and fired them.

THey went into one ragged hole!!?

I took the same 3 empties, and loaded them with Barnes Super Solid bullets, with the same charge.

I fired them at the same target.

Imagine my astonishment when I looked through the spotting scope and saw that all six bullet went into a groupd of less than 0.7 of an inch!!

I stopped load developement right there and then.

And that rifle has had nothing but the same load.

I used it to shoot a number of buffalo, two elephants, two lions and many plains game.

I have had the same experience as the other posters with Barnes solids and Swift A-frames. They shoot to the same POI in my 416.

quote:

Originally posted by Dead Eye:
My 416 rigby shoots 410 Woodlieghs and 400 DGSolid handloads into small little 100 yrd groups but unfortunately they are 3" apart. The woodleighs are 3" directly above the DGS. What would you do with this situation designed to kill buffalo in 6 weeks... Would sighting in the WL's 2" high and the DGS 1" low at 100 yrds be a decent option? I havent shot them at 50 yrds but the difference should be half... Thanks for your input!

Of course this is a personal thing, but I would sight in the softs the way I wanted my rifle to shoot them, and leave the solids at home! If you are not hunting elephant you simply do not need solids at all! I also would change the softs to North Fork softs as well! ............................................................................

Me...I like solids. Especially big flat point monolithic solids like North Forks, CEB BBW #13s, and, to a lesser extent, Barnes Banded solids with flat points. In big calibers, .458 & >, they hit as hard as a soft. I especially like them in the brush (Jesse). But then again...I tend to do a lot of things the old way.

DEad eye, Dean and I are jut going to shoot softs for the whole hunt. I can't see why we can't kill a buffalo with swift A frames. Todays bullets I think all you need is a soft. The guys who have hunted with Zambezi hunters have told me your only going to shoot 100- 150yards max if that helps and still want to shoot solids. I would think the buffalo would be shot at less than 100 yards

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
You do not need solids for buffalo.

I have given up using solids except for elephant.

That sums it up!

In my experience, the North Fork Softs and Solids shoot POA or close enough....

Speeding up the bullet flattens the trajectory. The point of impact at 100 should come down. The rifle also has less time to rotate due to the shorter time the bullet spends in the barrel, which also lowers the point of impact. Different BC numbers also influence trajectory. The answer is to fiddle with speed but not to the detriment of terminal performance.

I would be perfectly happy with my Softs hitting 2" high at 100 yards and my Solids hitting 1" low at 100 yards.

Go Hunt.

Dead Eye wrote:

quote:

thanks for the replies guys, i will try to get some 410 fmj woodleighs and if i cant, i'll speed up the 400 DGS a bit to see if they come up a bit.

Gerard wrote:

quote:

Speeding up the bullet flattens the trajectory. The point of impact at 100 should come down. The rifle also has less time to rotate due to the shorter time the bullet spends in the barrel, which also lowers the point of impact.

Dead Eye,

As I have stated and Gerard has reiterated...all you probably need to do is SLOW the solids a bit.

Solids don't require the speed of a soft any way to be effective. They are to achieve deep straight-line penetration.

If you slow the solids and get the loads closer...sight your rifle dead on with the solids at 25 yds. Then shoot both at 100. The solids will likely be the same at 25 & 100 which will be dead on. If the softs are then an 1" or 2" high at 100...I would consider that perfect. That will give you a good kill zone for plains game you might wish to take at > than 100 yds. It is easy to remember for that first shot (esp if you practice a lot ahead of time) that your softs are slightly high which probably won't make that much difference anyway.

Then for the rushed follow-ups with the solids...you can just snap-shoot as they will be dead-on.

After my first Buffalo hunt when I was told to bring solids, I swore them off and never again used on Buff.
Ele yes, Buff no!
My .416Rigby shoots factory Norma with Barnes Solids 400gr to same point (1/2-inch) as my fiends hand loads for me of 350 gr TSX at 50 and 100.