Mammoths & Mastodons: Titans of the Ice Age - mammoths & elephants share 99.4% genes

Ancient giants return

Thousands of years have passed since the last mastodon nibbled on the alder in Alaska. But one is standing at the Anchorage Museum right now. Or rather, its bones are.

The immense skeleton is actually a replica, but there are plenty of real bones, teeth, hair and other parts of Alaska's pachyderm past in the exhibit, "Mammoths and Mastodons: Titans of the Ice Age," on display here through fall. Actual bits of mammoths -- the official Alaska state fossil -- include a tusk from one beast that rambled around St. Paul Island a mere 5,700 years ago.

There are also full-size replicas of several ice age giants, some nearly reaching the ceiling of the museum's third floor: a Columbian mammoth, larger than its woolly cousins; a short-faced cave bear; a homotherium -- popularly known as "saber-tooth tiger."

"These are very dramatic animals," said Daniel Fisher of the University of Michigan Museum of Paleontology. "You'll be thankful they don't survive in parts of Alaska today."

But when you see the life-size model of little Lyuba, the 45-inch long baby mammoth found preserved in Siberia, it's easy to wish that at least some of the Pleistocene's proboscideans didn't make it to today.

Lyuba suffocated in mud an estimated 40,000 years ago. Her excellently preserved soft tissues and material in her digestive tract supplied scientists with a trove of information. Her fortuitous preservation came about as a result of being infested with acid-producing bacteria that in effect pickled her as she froze in the permafrost.

Fisher is the guy who figured that out. Among the world's most prominent mammal paleontologists, he is the show's guest curator, a position somewhat analogous to being the director of a movie. He helped design and implement the exhibit, which originated with Chicago's Field Museum, finding specimens for display, corralling the latest research.

Various types of proboscideans -- mammals with trunks and tusks -- once flourished in every continent except Australia and Antarctica. They sported different teeth, different tusk configurations, different diets and probably very different lifestyles. Mammoths were grazers, like sheep or cattle, Fisher said. Mastodons were browsers, living on leaves and branches, like moose or giraffes.

Mastodon fossils have been found as far south as northern Mexico. Mammoths lived all the way into modern Costa Rica. Other proboscideans migrated into South America.

Then they died out. The most recent remains, those of a dwarf species, were found on Wrangel Island, 500 miles due west of Barrow. The last of the race would have been on Earth at about the same time as Moses was arguing with Pharaoh.

The exhibit employs fascinating video that makes it easy to understand things like how these giants differed from one another, how scientists sleuth out their lives and their world, what kind of environment they thrived in.

For instance, a common image of the ice age is of a world covered by glaciers. But, though it was colder than now, the age of mammoths also had ample fields, brush, forests and other forage. It had to; a big mammoth required 500 pounds of food a day.

The hairy giants were the biggest animal on the ancient Alaska landscape, sharing the terrain with a variety of other animals that are no longer here: steppe bison, horses, lions.

"They lived in small to medium-size family groups," said Fisher, "sometimes aggregating into herds. And they moved, possibly seasonally or over longer times, conceivably hundreds of kilometers looking for grasses and sedges."

Scientists know a lot about mammoths and mastodons because they only recently became extinct, relatively speaking, and fossils are abundant.

"There's an excellent record of mammoths in Alaska," Fisher said, in part thanks to the gold mining industry. "People working gold fields had to move the Pleistocene muck to get to the gold. They used hydraulic equipment to melt and remove the overlying deposits to gain access to the gravels. In so doing they exposed everything that was there: trees, plants, and lots of bones of animals that lived and died on that landscape."

Many of the fossils on display in fact come from Alaska; some are on loan to the Field Museum from the University of Alaska Museum in Fairbanks, including a beautiful skull showing the woolly mammoth's high cranium -- a feature that suggests (perhaps anthropomorphically) intelligence.

It would be one of many similarities they share with their hairless living relatives. A fact sheet from the museum notes that mammoths and modern elephants share 99.4 percent of the same genes.

"Mastodons are a separate lineage," said Fisher. "They split off 30 million years ago and are not so closely related. But mammoths and elephants are very close. Their common ancestor is around 7 million years ago and we think they were also similar behaviorally."

How did such successful creatures become extinct? Theories about disease or an extra-terrestrial impact have not stood up to investigation, Fisher said. But he was cautious in balancing the claims of researchers who think it was due to climate change and those who point to human hunters.

Both of those theories have grounds for credibility. Around 11,000 years ago, global warming swept the earth. Glaciers melted. Sea levels rose. Vegetation changed. Nomadic people began to congregate in permanent communities. Traders and manufacturers in the cities of Egypt and Mesopotamia began to exploit the breakthrough technologies of iron and writing at about the same time the tusk from St. Paul was attached to a living, breathing mammoth.

One of the most intriguing displays in the exhibit is not the massive animal bones, but art, hand-size carvings created by human beings who saw and rendered the images of the mammoths that were part of their world.

Some bones include spear points and other evidence of hunting. One such find, in fact, started Fisher on his road to becoming Mr. Mammoth. He had worked in other paleontological disciplines, but shortly after he arrived at the University of Michigan, some 30 years ago, a mastodon was discovered nearby. Every scientist in the area joined in the field excavation, including Fisher, though he said he was mainly there as an observer.

Then, a short time later, another was found. "No one else was available," Fisher said. They were all busy with the first mastodon. "So I went out and I was fascinated by the differences between it and the one I'd just seen.

"In the end I decided the differences had to do with the second one probably having been butchered by humans while the first was a natural death. I got to thinking about the topic and found it very intriguing."

If ancient humans contributed to the demise of the titans of the ice age, their modern descendents may be able to use what they've learned to help save the modern descendents of the mammoths. The final part of the exhibits deals with elephants, whose survival in the wild is seen as under threat at this time. Those who consider the largest land animal to be kind, wise and gentle -- as reflected in the tales of Babar, Horton and Dumbo -- feel concern for the giants. Worldwide efforts may help protect them from hunting; but protecting their habitat, or even having solid knowledge about how to do so, may be harder.

There's where the fossil record can assist, said Fisher.

"Some of what we've learned about the mammoths could help with conservation of their living relatives," he said, and gave an example. "Many aspects of the animal's diet are recorded in their tusks. Knowing that, we can look to modern day elephants tusks and essentially reconstruct details of individual lives without having seen the individual animal."

The exhibit will remain in Anchorage through Oct. 9. After that the mammoths and mastodons will lumber off to Denver, Boston, London and other cities on a five-year tour.

So, will my 500NE be inadequate for these? What about the 577 TREX?

"Around 11,000 years ago, global warming swept the earth. Glaciers melted. Sea levels rose. Vegetation changed." Oh no, not again!!!!!
Peter

If our ancestors killed them with spears and rocks, I have to believe your 500 NE will be fine.

I hope I live to see the return of cloned mammoths.

quote:

If our ancestors killed them with spears and rocks, I have to believe your 500 NE will be fine.

Yeah, but what did the PH carry?
Peter.

I love it!

I would use my 470 NE with Woodleigh Solids but since it is a K-Gun I am afraid the Combi Cocking device would doom me to extinction along with the Mammoth and Mastodon. Even worse my bolt gun does not hold 5 down..... There is no hope.

We are all doomed.

And even if you did, then you have to import the tusks. What a mess! I'll pass.
Peter.

There is plenty of evidence it was something Sudden and catastrophic, that caused the demise of these animals ,like a pole shift etc causing massive Tsunamis,and snap freezing .I get tired of hearing so called scientists waffleing on with the crap it was over hunting by humans .As though they are taking some kind of moaning pot shot at hunters in general .There a huge piles of remains of animals ,trees etc ,flattened forests which point to a huge disaster, not a few primitive humans wiping out huge numbers of animals

After seeing the destruction in Japan, I can accept that some sort of "Disaster" as a culprit / partial culprit for the demise of said beasts...I'm not for the human element having much to do with the large / mass prehistoric extinctions...Especially given that before Europeans arrived here on this continent buffalo numbered in the 10s of millions all the while being hunted by humans- same goes for the African continent.

Human over-population on this planet is a recent phenomenon and is now the culprit for species extinction where previously it was natural disasters. There were cases of certain areas having species extripated; Egypt, Yucatan, west-central Europe. However in prehistory the same factors that limited animal populations so limited humans, thus a balance was kept. Also, there was no form of organized mass transportation over long distances until sailing ships were perfected. Any large human migrations were kept at a minimum due largely to geographic barriers, rival clans / tribes and disease. Once the limiting factors were removed for humans we became the dominant species on earth and have been destroying our planet ever since!!

quote:

not a few primitive humans wiping out huge numbers of animals

No one said that a few humans wiped out huge numbers of animals.
As to the evidence, please educate us.11,000 years is instantaneous in geological time!
My comment about global warming was tongue in cheek! There is ample evidence, especially about the movement of these animals far from their normal ranges.
I assume that "so called scientists" is your name for anyone who disagrees with you Rush or Glenn Beck, all well known scientists who have had papers published in peer reviewed journals.
Peter.

Genetically isn't that about as close as humans are to chimpanzees?

John, yup! We tend to think that 99.4% is real close but it isn't really. First the number of genes in the human genome is in doubt. Secondly, we tend to think that more genes means more complexity. Not necessarily true either it seems. The important question is whether the aiming point for a frontal brain shot remains the same (you know, the broom stick through the ear hole trick)!
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
If our ancestors killed them with spears and rocks, I have to believe your 500 NE will be fine.

I suspect the unsuccessful PH's were using "push feed" rocks?

Bring on the Mammoths! Duh.. winning

quote:

I suspect the unsuccessful PH's were using "push feed" rocks?

LMAO. I absolutely love this

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Peter:

My comment about global warming was tongue in cheek! There is ample evidence, especially about the movement of these animals far from their normal ranges.
[QUOTE]

Pray tell, Where are their normal ranges?

SSR

Sorry SSR I only just saw your post. Tell you what, I will cover this when you and your fellow Americans have had your "thorough presentation and analysis of the scientific theory of evolution". That way we can be on the same page. Otherwise talking about genes, climate change tectonic plates etc.is just a complete waste of time. Check the Florida Times Union in Jacksonville (front page) if you don't know what I am talking about. Of course your usual source, Sarah Plain, will tell about how dinosaurs and humans walked the earth at the same time.
Peter

My goodness, how dismissive and arrogant. Apparently you cann't condescend to speak to us Plebian types.

I think that, if you will pull your arrogant ass out of the clouds many of us are quite knowledgeable about such things as genes,climate change, tectonic plates and such. Not to mention Paleobotany,spore studies, tree ring analysis,microclimate,gentic drift and species variability. As a matter of fact much original work in those and many other fields has been done here in the States.

So "cover" away my friend, we can follow if you speak slowly enough.

SSR

The evidence is highly suggestive that many species of megafauna, such as the mammoth, were wiped out by migratory human hunters.

But the rules don't change. It's just that, back then, it was all about spear placement, rather than shot placement!

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
The evidence is highly suggestive that many species of megafauna, such as the mammoth, were wiped out by migratory human hunters.

But the rules don't change. It's just that, back then, it was all about spear placement, rather than shot placement!

Right but I have read that a round nosed spear head would not penetrate nearly as well as a flat nosed spear head. I've also heard that the .45-70 Garret lever spear was a top notch mammoth killer.

One of my Geology classes went to a museum today, we were asked to estimate the size of a mastodon skull. I replied I don't know if he'll make B&C only one person got the joke but it was worth it.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
The evidence is highly suggestive that many species of megafauna, such as the mammoth, were wiped out by migratory human hunters.

Almost everyone still thinks the American Bison was almost completely wiped out by humans too, but Dr. Derr at Texas A&M proved several years ago, that to be FALSE.

So I personally have to doubt these pre-historic animals were killed off, by very primitive people.

SSR, you are right. My responsive was dismissive and arrogant. I apologize.
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
The evidence is highly suggestive that many species of megafauna, such as the mammoth, were wiped out by migratory human hunters.

Almost everyone still thinks the American Bison was almost completely wiped out by humans too, but Dr. Derr at Texas A&M proved several years ago, that to be FALSE.

So I personally have to doubt these pre-historic animals were killed off, by very primitive people.

Arron,

Do you have reference to that study I'd sure like to read it!

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
SSR, you are right. My responsive was dismissive and arrogant. I apologize.
Peter.

Sir

Apology accepted. I would enjoy visiting with you I believe. Gentlemen can disagree without beoing disagreeable and you have proved yourself a gentleman.

Thanks

SSR

EDIT

I was intempret in my language, my apologies to you.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
The evidence is highly suggestive that many species of megafauna, such as the mammoth, were wiped out by migratory human hunters.

Almost everyone still thinks the American Bison was almost completely wiped out by humans too, but Dr. Derr at Texas A&M proved several years ago, that to be FALSE.

So I personally have to doubt these pre-historic animals were killed off, by very primitive people.

no doubt...
no way could they have been clobbered by cavemen.
recent evidence concludes that it was entirely Bush's fault.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Almost everyone still thinks the American Bison was almost completely wiped out by humans too, but Dr. Derr at Texas A&M proved several years ago, that to be FALSE.

Not sure what he thought he was proving, but he sure as hell didn't prove that.

Unless he blamed only Christian Sharps.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Almost everyone still thinks the American Bison was almost completely wiped out by humans too, but Dr. Derr at Texas A&M proved several years ago, that to be FALSE.

Not sure what he thought he was proving, but he sure as hell didn't prove that.

Unless he blamed only Christian Sharps.

Ya, as a matter of fact he did prove that. Published, peer reviewed, and accepted!! But what the heck do I know?

Just send Dr. Easter (Ledvm) on AR, a PM and he can explain it to you. DNA can prove many things, including the American Bison was NOT almost exterminated by people. I'm just not well versed enough in the science to explain it.

quote:

Human over-population on this planet is a recent phenomenon and is now the culprit for species extinction where previously it was natural disasters. There were cases of certain areas having species extripated; Egypt, Yucatan, west-central Europe. However in prehistory the same factors that limited animal populations so limited humans, thus a balance was kept. Also, there was no form of organized mass transportation over long distances until sailing ships were perfected. Any large human migrations were kept at a minimum due largely to geographic barriers, rival clans / tribes and disease. Once the limiting factors were removed for humans we became the dominant species on earth and have been destroying our planet ever since!!

WE (our population explosion)...are the natural disaster.

quote:

Almost everyone still thinks the American Bison was almost completely wiped out by humans too, but Dr. Derr at Texas A&M proved several years ago, that to be FALSE.

OK...I am talking off the top of my head here and it has been a while since I heard the talk but basically:

By dissecting back through the DNA of todays Bison...and using mathematics...Derr's group showed that statistically with all the powder and shot that could be hauled to the American West at the time...hunters could only account for about a ~10% (again talking off top of my head) reduction in the herds.

DNA analysis reaveals it was tuberculosis & brucellosis introduction from the European cattle introduced which devastated the herds and accounted for the drastic decline in a felatively short time period. Then of course...it was the cattle rancher and farmer which prevented the re-colonization of the land by the bison.


Bison were immunologically totally naive to these diseases.

So basically hunters killed ~10% of the herds at the same time TB & Brucellois were devastating them. While they were at their peak lows...civilization converted there range to farms and ranches. So...in reality...it was disease...NOT powder and shot...that reduced the bison to almost extinction.

Maybe Oryxhunter 1983 (a student of Derr) will chime in and give us the real version of this study and correct my memory mistakes. I will see if I can prompt him to do so...as again...I was writing from memory.

And...yes I provided Aaron with that info...so when Oryxhunter chimes in...if I got something incorrect...I take the blame.

Very interesting! Had always heard that it was the market hunters. Thanks for the info.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Very interesting! Had always heard that it was the market hunters. Thanks for the info.

I would bet on Lanes memory if it came to it and the disease theory sounds likely to me. But the market hunters damn sure tried. It was a deliberate policy of the US Military to encourage hunters so as to remove a supply source from indian tribes.

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Almost everyone still thinks the American Bison was almost completely wiped out by humans too, but Dr. Derr at Texas A&M proved several years ago, that to be FALSE.

Not sure what he thought he was proving, but he sure as hell didn't prove that.

Unless he blamed only Christian Sharps.

Yessir...I reconfirmed the facts...they are as I stated above.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Cross L!

Is this theory published anywhere?

And, to be clear, it is a theory.

No doubt disease played a part in the near demise of Bison bison, but I will not discount the overwhelming role played by rifles chambered for center fire metallic ammuntion - until I see for myself what the author of this theory has to say.

Let us not forget that is has been "proved" as a fact, by certain academics, that guns cause crime.

And that sport hunting is causing the extinction of the African lion.

Forgive me if I have my doubts.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Is this theory published anywhere?

And, to be clear, it is a theory.

No doubt disease played a part in the near demise of Bison bison, but I will not discount the overwhelming role played by rifles chambered for center fire metallic ammuntion - until I see for myself what the author of this theory has to say.

Let us not forget that is has been "proved" as a fact, by certain academics, that guns cause crime.

And that sport hunting is causing the extinction of the African lion.

Forgive me if I have my doubts.

Sir...I am trying to save you from looking silly in the end.

Yes...it has been published. Dr. Derr is probably the world's foremost expert on bison for sure bison genetics...he is getting ready to map the genome.

I will get you the reference.

Hunter's killed ~10% a sustainable off-take.

TB & Brucella wiped out the bison.

Unless you enjoy enjoy your crow deep-fried with Cajun spices...I would wait to read the work before I commented more.

quote:

I will not discount the overwhelming role played by rifles chambered for center fire metallic ammuntion - until I see for myself what the author of this theory has to say.

This part was simple historic research and mathematics.

He first established through population genetics what the population was originally.

He then liberally calculated from historical data the amount of ammunition that could ever been hauled to the west.

Metallic cartridges may have taken out the survivors...but they would have hardly made a dent on healthy breeding herds.

Here is a good analogy:

Say you were sitting in the North Atlantic in a small boat with a few Sharps rifles when the Titanic went down...and...let's say you worked for a rival ship building company.

Then after it sunk...to eliminate all evidence...you and your crew sniped off the survivors.

The equivalent scenario to saying metallic cartridges wiped out the NA Bison...would be...for you to have come home and say I sunk the Titanic with my .50-90!

As an aside, There are numerous anecdotal reports from native sources worring about"the return of the buffalo" Quite possibly a reference to ongoing changes in bison herd dynamics prior to commercial hunting on a large scale.

I relize its anicdotal when its a european and a "reliable native source" when its not but does at least open the possiblity of contemporary reports that something was changing.

SSR