BBC NEWS this morning

Zimbabwe elephants poisoned by poachers in Hwange
Elephants in kenya There has been a rise in elephant poaching in some African countries
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Poachers have used poison to kill 41 elephants in Zimbabwe's Hwange National Park, an official has told the BBC.

Zimbabwe Parks spokeswoman Caroline Washaya Moyo said it was suspected that cyanide was used to poison salt pans but tests are still being carried out.

She said it was Zimbabwe's worst case of elephant poaching.

There has been a rise in the killing of elephants and rhinos in parts of Africa in recent years, mostly to feed demand for horns and tusks in Asia.

The horns and tusks are used in traditional medicine in parts of Asia, even though scientists say they have no beneficial properties.

Five of the suspected poachers have been arrested, Ms Washaya Moyo told the BBC's Focus on Africa programme.

She said touching the poisoned carcasses posed a danger to any animal or human.

She said the Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management Authority had reminded people who live near the park, in western Zimbabwe, not to eat the meat of any dead animals they find.

Some poachers were found with a large haul of tusks and cyanide earlier this year.

Two years ago, nine elephants, five lions and two buffalo were poisoned.

BBC article

That's going to hurt the business of the South African PHs who hunt the park unless I miss my guess.

It is absolutely disgusting how bad the Elephant poaching is in Zimbabwe and all over Africa at the mo.I just returned from the Zambezi valley,and found about 20 poached elephants in 10 days. But one poacher was shot dead by National parks a few days before I got down there.They got him while chopping out ivory of 3 ele's they had just shot.3 other poachers got away though.Parks are going their best with the limited resources they have in the field.

The same thing that happened to all the black rhinos in Zimbabwe can happen to the elephants. Parks is going to have to get very aggressive on the ground if this is to be stopped.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Barnard:
It is absolutely disgusting how bad the Elephant poaching is in Zimbabwe and all over Africa at the mo.I just returned from the Zambezi valley,and found about 20 poached elephants in 10 days. But one poacher was shot dead by National parks a few days before I got down there.They got him while chopping out ivory of 3 ele's they had just shot.3 other poachers got away though.Parks are going their best with the limited resources they have in the field.

You have no idea how many PH's are telling me this exact story. Way too many. Not just in Zim, but Mozambique, Zambia and Tanzania as well.

I was in Mozambique last month, a place I had visited 11 years ago. The difference in Elephant numbers was absolutely shocking. After a few days I asked the PH about the Elephant numbers. Apparently the poaching there was pretty heavy. Poisoning and shooting.

It was heartbreaking to see the difference a decade made in that area.

The penalty in Moz for poaching is so light, there is no reason for them to quit. Get caught, spend 2 months in jail, go out and do it again.

The prices they are getting for ivory in the bush has doubled in the past few years. I am unsure of the exact figures, but lets say it was a hell of a lot more than I expected.

Cows calves ... anything with teeth. When a calf will bring $100, why not kill it?

This is a disaster. An absolute disaster.

Even if you apply rule .303 to every poacher caught throughout the continent it won't make one iota of difference because for every one you catch & shoot, there'll always be 1000 more queueing up to take his place simply because of their poverty & the money available for doing it.

Commercial poaching won't even begin to slow down until Govts worldwide agree to catch & properly punish those at the top of the trade no matter who they are, what rank they hold, how much money they have or whether they hold diplomatic immunity or not....... and (IMO) that will NEVER happen.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Commercial poaching won't even begin to slow down until Govts worldwide agree to catch & properly punish those at the top of the trade no matter who they are, what rank they hold, how much money they have or whether they hold diplomatic immunity or not....... and (IMO) that will NEVER happen.

When the Chinese 'own' the govt. of these African countries, it will continue.

All the progress made in Elephant conservation over the past 40 years is being erased in one decade.

I have said before, if you ever want to shoot an Elephant, do it now! In 3-5 years, Elephant hunting will be over.

Sad indeed. Pete, I am sure the Chinese are financing the poaching teams and providing the cyanide or is it pretty easy to buy in Zim? I know Parks is doing their best but I have to think the Government is complicit in this as well....

Peter
Steve
Wendell

The outlook you folks give is grim and downright sickening...thanks for sharing your views/experiences on this!

Sad indeed

Yes there be no elephant left very soon.All these African Government's need to wake up now,as do CITES, cause whatever they think they are doing, it certainly is not working!!

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:
Peter
Steve
Wendell

The outlook you folks give is grim and downright sickening...thanks for sharing your views/experiences on this!

Sad indeed

It is indeed very sad.

The truth is, you get precisely the same sad information from anyone on the ground.

Makes me even more sad that the government is not doing anything to stop this, but rather encouraging it.

While people from outside the country are donating sizeable amounts of money to set up watering holes for these same elephants.

I will not pay any more money for conservation in Zimbabwe any more.

the ONLY conservation practised in Zim is done by the outfitters. the government there is a big part of the problem( i.e. corruption), definitely not part of the solution.

Until you kill the Asian demand for ivory, rhino horn, cat parts, bear gall bladders, etc., it will not stop.

Money will always be the driving force and until demand is curbed or acceptable alternatives are presented the problems will continue. It is as simple as that.

this whole thing reminds me of the drug problem. as long as there is a demand, there will always be a supplier. the Chinese need to enter the 21st century and realize there is not medicinal value in animal body parts. but the chance of that happening is slim to none!

"Hwange doomed"
Hwange is probably one of the safes places for Ele with its high populations.
The Head light should read "Africa's Elephant doomed"

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
When the Chinese 'own' the govt. of these African countries, it will continue.

Unfortunately, a very true statement

I may be wrong but I understand that ivory is popular among the new middle class in china as carvings and chopsticks, not as any medicinal stuff. The average middle class chinese does not know that an elephant must be killed in order to get the ivory but rather believes that they fall off and grow a new pair every year or something.
I suspect that a large part of the demand could be killed by educating the chinese people about the facts. Is there anyone doing this?

tough trying to educate about 1 1/2 billion Chinese.

In response to snowhound and Peter...

I WILL DO IT!!!
Don't know how...BUT I WILL DO IT!!!
MARK MY WORDS!!!

Hunt Africa now if you can. As the United States continues to commit suicide and the safety net it has provided for the rest of the world for the last 70 years or so collapses the wolf packs large and small will come out. The Chinese have to have massive amounts of cheap natural resources or their economy will collapse. They have no other option than to invade Africa. Not militarily but with with bags of cheap American dollars and "consultants" first and then when they own the African governments with direct enforcement of their dictates. If the Chinese want the African ivory they will have it until there is no more to have! No one can stop that now.

In this transition period though there will be chances for more adventure and hunts. My suggestion is to use the time wisely.

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:
In response to snowhound and Peter...

I WILL DO IT!!!
Don't know how...BUT I WILL DO IT!!!
MARK MY WORDS!!!

Well basically we need to educate a couple of chinese celebrities who can do the talking and translate a few poaching documentaries to mandarin to put on the chinese version of youtube. The problem would be if the chinese authorities are opposed to such information being spread otherwise it should be doable.

I don't know how I will do it right now...But I assure you I will MAKE A STAND and give this tragedy the EXPOSURE it needs via a new website I will prepare and via social media...and EDUCATE these folks in a professional fashion.

I will create the atmosphere and bring this to the forefront and give it the attention it demands/needs!

I may NOT change the majority but I will do my part to at least IMPACT more had I not chosen to do anything!

No one owns me nor pays me and I have no board of directors to please...nor do I have to adhere to any political-correctness!

If I have to fund the whole she-bang myself I will no matter what the limited funds I have...IF THERE IS A WILL THERE IS A WAY!!!

My daddy didn't call me hard-head for nothing

There is one thing I will solicit though...And that is info/details and pictures, etc. that I can use in my quest!

Thanks...I'm gonna start a new topic here and present this here so folks can send me articles and photographs and suggestions I can use!

IGNITING CONTROVERSY...The good, bad, and ugly...I'm committed!!!

Regards,

Roland

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:
Until you kill the Asian demand for ivory, rhino horn, cat parts, bear gall bladders, etc., it will not stop.

BINGO!

The problem isn't ignorance, it's apathy and the Chinese culture.

A culture who doesn't value the life of a newborn baby girl can never be concerned about the life of an Elephant.

They know. They just don't care.

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
The problem isn't ignorance, it's apathy and the Chinese culture.

A culture who doesn't value the life of a newborn baby girl can never be concerned about the life of an Elephant.

They know. They just don't care.

Granted Wendell...I'm familiar with their culture...YET, I just can't stand by and do nothing or trust any one else to do it the way I know I will...I'll say this though...I WILL STIR THE POT for sure...I WILL CAUSE CONTROVERSY and bring it to light in some way, fashion, or form

How many partake of it that I don't know...but I have the will and determination to do something that will impact some at least if not more!

I'm going into this jumping in with both feet and arms swinging and I'll take my hits no matter what...BUT I WILL GET UP AND TAKE A STAND

Give em hell!

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
Give em hell!

Hey that's my middlename bro

I watched some documentary where they did undercover filming about the ivory trade in china.
The sellers of carved products claimed that 90% of the market was illegal ivory sold under false legal papers and that the customers were mostly ignorant about where ivory came from. This was stated by the chinese ivory traders themselves.
To not give a shit you must first be aware that there is something to not give a shit about.

They do care about pandas so why not elephants?
Does the WWF have anything going on in china?
I think it is a start to spread this knowledge and I will chip in what I can.

I believe I saw that same documentary awhile back too.

I have to agree with everything said. Main thing is, education and go after the top heads ( not just China , but also Japan and Fillippines according to NG ).
In Africa on the ground, no one wins. Too many people and no money equals poaching anything for a buck. Can't blame them, they gotta eat just like everyone else, thanks to their corrupt governments

Roland,

The bright spot in modern life is the ability of the internet to give determined people, like you, the ability to reach millions with their message. God knows I'm not prone to optimism, but all it takes for a HUGE change is to change the fashion of using animal parts as a status symbol. When beaver felt hats went out of style in Europe the beaver trade in American stopped over night.

If there is some way to transfer the need to be seen as wealthy and powerful from ownership of Ivory trinkets to anything else the illegal market for Ivory would change drastically. Even better, if Ivory trinkets could be cast as " so yesterday" by a good advertizing campaign the market for Elephant ivory would shrink rapidly.

THIS IS HUMOR.... DO NOT TAKE THIS TOO SERIOUSLY!

Imagine this: In the face of the shortage of women in china.... An advert with a HOT Asian Babe with lots of cleavage showing saying something like " I would never ever want to be with a man that has parts of a dead Elephant in his house" or something to that effect. Poof over night Ivory could go from "gotta have it" "to hide it in the closet and never ever buy any more.

God Speed on your attempt to save the Elephant.

Boarkiller and Els we're thinking along the same lines

Roland

Received the following information from the parks investigating officer:

quote:

The poisoning of elephants took place in the Tsholotsho Communal areas bordering Hwange National Park. Actually it is in Matupula and Gariya concession. We have managed to arrest the suspects and were remanded in custody for trial on the 20th of September 2013.
Tell your agents not to panic. In the Park everything is under control. I hope the arrest of the suspects have sent a clear message situation is under control.

quote:

quote:

Originally posted by snowhound:
I may be wrong but I understand that ivory is popular among the new middle class in china as carvings and chopsticks, not as any medicinal stuff. The average middle class chinese does not know that an elephant must be killed in order to get the ivory but rather believes that they fall off and grow a new pair every year or something.
I suspect that a large part of the demand could be killed by educating the chinese people about the facts. Is there anyone doing this?

Having spent ten years living in China I feel you are a little wide of the mark. They know very well where ivory comes from. The "average middle class Chinese" is very well educated and has a solid grasp of world events. The fact is that it is a non-issue for them. Dealing with elephant poaching in Africa is not even on the bottom of their extensive to-do list. If there were a direct link between ending poaching and the acquisition of control over natural resources you would see demand from China turned off immediately. But there aint, so you won’t.

quote:

Originally posted by martin pieters:
Received the following information from the parks investigating officer:

[QUOTE]The poisoning of elephants took place in the Tsholotsho Communal areas bordering Hwange National Park. Actually it is in Matupula and Gariya concession. We have managed to arrest the suspects and were remanded in custody for trial on the 20th of September 2013.
Tell your agents not to panic. In the Park everything is under control. I hope the arrest of the suspects have sent a clear message situation is under control.

Oh great ... problem solved.

Typical African response.

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
Having spent ten years living in China I feel you are a little wide of the mark. They know very well where ivory comes from. The "average middle class Chinese" is very well educated and has a solid grasp of world events. The fact is that it is a non-issue for them. Dealing with elephant poaching in Africa is not even on the bottom of their extensive to-do list. If there were a direct link between ending poaching and the acquisition of control over natural resources you would see demand from China turned off immediately. But there aint, so you won’t.

I'm sorry to hear that.
In your experience, how can they be influenced?
So they don't care about elephant poaching. Fine. What do they care about?
What does the up coming middle class want to be associated with, and perhaps more important, what do they not want to be associated with?

China is taking over southern Africa lock, stock, and barrel. They have become the new parasite in Africa and there is no stopping them and there will be no return to "normal" - whatever that is in Africa these days. You're not going to educate a billion Chinamen about immorality of ivory anymore than you are a billion Africans about the dangers of aids.

The demand will not stop, nor will the poaching. The poachers are not the problem and even if they were, there a few hundred million willing to take the chance.

TIA

From a scientist friend of mine:

Steve,
WRT a post on AR concerning the poisoning of Ele in Hwange, Cyanide compounds are used in the extraction of Gold from its ore. There are heaps of yellow cyanide waste all over Zim, probably RSA and any other country which mines Gold. Consequently, there isn't a hope in hell of preventing access to it.(The other means of extracting it uses Mercury) Both of those substances are pretty nasty.

quote:

Originally posted by snowhound:

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
Having spent ten years living in China I feel you are a little wide of the mark. They know very well where ivory comes from. The "average middle class Chinese" is very well educated and has a solid grasp of world events. The fact is that it is a non-issue for them. Dealing with elephant poaching in Africa is not even on the bottom of their extensive to-do list. If there were a direct link between ending poaching and the acquisition of control over natural resources you would see demand from China turned off immediately. But there aint, so you won’t.

I'm sorry to hear that.
In your experience, how can they be influenced?
So they don't care about elephant poaching. Fine. What do they care about?
What does the up coming middle class want to be associated with, and perhaps more important, what do they not want to be associated with?

Will send you a pm.