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I agree with you about the young animals. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | ||
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Lane, He was making a point of deflecting attention he has drawn to himself in the entire baby elephant issue and the lousy treatment he gave his customer. I agree. The croc and one buff were small and should not have been shot. However, neither were "illegal" or too small to shoot. The other buff was a dandy. Adam was crying "double standard" when he has exhibited his standards for treating a customer poorly then egging on some imitation lawyer to posting on his behalf. The whole thing stinks. If Adam were half the PH he claims to be, he would call out his PH and sort the mess properly rather than throw dust in the air to confuse the issue. | |||
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Having a point and making the point in a constructive way are two different things. We have plenty of examples on the Forum of late of folks that have a legitimate point to make but do so in a ham-fisted manner. What those folks forget (or apparently do not understand or appreciate) is that the manner in which a message is delivered matters . . . and a message delivered in an inappropriate manner alienates the listener, detracts from the underlying message and makes the deliverer look foolish, petty or worse. Do not expect the message to carry itself if the manner of delivery is botched and ill conceived. Mike | |||
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Mike, The more of your posts I read, the more I like and respect you. ___________________________________________________________________________________ Give me the simple life; an AK-47, a good guard dog and a nymphomaniac who owns a liquor store. | |||
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Yessir we are a world of political correctness these days for sure. The times of plainly stating a subject are over. I reckon that is how the USA has gotten in the shape it is in. Personally...I just prefer just saying the sky is blue when the sun is shining. But...those who understand psychology tell me that is why I am a surgeon verses an internist...when I don't like something I just cut it out instead of dinking with it for years with pills.  I guess we should all hire a publicist and buy a teleprompter.  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Lane, I don't like political correctness any more than you, but a litte reason and manners goes a long ways. We should all try to be more like Mike. Tom ...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men. -Edward, duke of York ". . . when a man has shot an elephant his life is full." ~John Alfred Jordan "The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." Cicero - 55 BC "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand Cogito ergo venor- KPete “It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages.” ― Adam Smith - “Wealth of Nations” | |||
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Many here over the years have been bashed, abused verbally, and even hated. Many have forgotten to be civil to one another. Explaining the problem, giving facts and not there stories. Sometimes much of the problems are client based. If one is going to hunt in Africa, it is my opinion, that you the hunter know the animals you are after. Know the difference between immature and mature. There are enough photos here and even video to know first hand what they should resemble. Too sum it up many have forgotten manners. Mike | |||
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You are truly clueless I fear. This has nothing to do with political correctness, plain speaking, psychology or anything of the sort, it has to do with manners and good sense. The notion that a good message poorly delivered detracts from the message is a timeless principle that has been with us forever. This is nothing new. Until you appreciate that fact, you will never be a good spokesperson for the issue that concerns you . . . and that is sad since the issue is deserving of quality attention. Mike | |||
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Well said. I have no problems to call a spade for a spade, but there are right times for doing it and there are wrong times for doing it. And it is also right ways to do it and wrong ways to do it. Adam commenting in ways like that in another hunters report where the hunter where totally happy about his hunt is both bad taste and disgraceful, showing zero respect for the persons involved in that hunting. If he feel there is a double standard with members here on this forum and he feels that people treat him unfair, he should start his own thread about this. Not coming with some childish ramble in other peoples hunting report. For me it is just another clue about what sort of person and agent Adam is. He should sit down with his lawyer friend meowing kitten and discuss tactics on how to save face on this forum. | |||
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Gentlemen above, I actually agree with you and publicly apologize for my bad taste in how I decided to try and call a spade a spade. It was very bad taste on my part to interrupt with Bill73 hunt report and was not professional in anyway! I apologize to Bill73 as well for my bad form in the way I tried to make a point. I should have started a new thread and brought this issue in a more professional manner. So apologizes all around. I don't Know Bill73 and hope he accepts my apology in my manners and understands it was not personal. I just want there to be the same standard and don't think it is fair that everyone jumps on me for one issue and then lets it slide with someone else! MJines you are a true gentleman and thanks for bringing me back to reality and will try to keep my emotions in check and handle this in a more proper manner. BulldogMaster, If I was trying to deflect attention from anything I would not have made any comments and kept quiet. I don't know how you come up with me treating a client poorly though? I was the one who actually stepped up to the plate and actually did something and several posters commented that I had gone above and beyond. Even with all this going on, I am still doing what I can to help the client behind the scenes and they final outcome is still not complete. I don't know about crying as you state, but I am calling a spade a spade and think that everyone should have the same standard and not just pick and choose who they can smear. The PH you mention, is not my PH and was employed by the outfitter. I did call out the PH and made a big stink to the outfitter who then fired him. I also took the outfitter off of my list. I did the opposite of throwing dust in the air and actually did dig deep to get everything and was part of the problem as I found out things that where not originally part of the problem and then became a problem, which I still handled even though blindsided. twoseventy and retreever, I agree 100% with you. Norwegianwoods, I also agree with you and have apologized for my manners. I also wish others on here would have manners and try to discuss an issue with manners and leave the name calling out and going out of their way to be disrespectful. Respect gets respect in return, but because of who I am I constantly have to try and be polite and respectful even when others are not. Will anyone admit that there are double standards on here though? I know I am a fun one for people to attack as we can see with 30 thousand some posts, and that is fine, but if the choir is going to sing a song to me about an issue, then I expect them to sing to the same issue with others. | |||
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Absolutely, unfortunately some folks determine their positions based more on what will stir the pot and result in the most controversy than what is fair. That is why I objected to a lot of the tenor on the All Gone thread, seemed to me to be more about beating the hell out of you than trying to objectively discuss the situation with all the facts on the table. Kudos for your post above. Mike | |||
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Adam,, It is refreshing to see someone admit that they were wrong and apologize on this forum. That is more rare than a 100 lb elephant. 465H&H | |||
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I really appreciate this post of yours Adam and it makes you come out to be a much better person than you did in some prior posts  I think you would come much better out of the All Gone thread if you posted there in this manner and enlightened us more around what you did regarding the PH and outfitter. I also think that the lawyer friend of yours did nothing to help you regarding peoples perception of you. Rather the opposite. I guess there are double standards here on this forum as it is on all other forums. And I have no problems discussing that as long as it is not started in someone else's thread, specially in a hunting report. If I was on a first time buff hunt and the PH told me to shoot the first buff(always trust your PH in my opinion) in Bill73's thread, I would be rather upset seeing it on the ground and probably demand a new buff. But it would be bad form in my opinion to say that in that thread as they seemed to be very happy with their hunt. If Bill73 had asked for our opinion about that buff, I would have given mine. | |||
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I think you should look in the mirror. Just like comments above...you are one of the most ardent bomb-droppers and displayers of poor manners. You insult me regularly...I just state the facts. Just like my initial post...I think Adam has a point. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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To me, these verbal attacks, justified or not are far and away the worst thing about AR. I once read somewhere that 90%+ of e mails and texts are misinterpreted. I think that ,at times ,someone makes a joke that is not interpreted as a joke by others. Things spiral downward from there. In other instances, I think there are some with too much time on their hands and they intentionally stirring the pot. On the other hand, there are those who are highly opinionated that are rude on the best of days. It would not hurt any of us to be polite in our responses to anyone here on AR. If we disagree, it isn't that hard to respectfully disagree. | |||
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Adam I don't think....nor do most people that the elephant was your fault. Wayne and especially Tim........yeah that's a different story. I agree there's a double standard as some of us pointed out with the lion/elephant thread. I'd also say the monitor lizard size corcidile and soft boss bufalo are less that flattering of that PH. But that's just my 2 cents. As MJines stated sometimes you have to know how to do it right......or perhaps just don't do it. Perhaps starting a thread on buffalo maturity would be a good move. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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BTW...I agree Adam's initial message was out of place on the hunter's Hunt Report (as as were some of Aaron & I's in earlier lion threads)...hence, the reason I started this thread...as I felt Adam had a point that was valid. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Adam, some people are great orators and journalists others are good PH's. If Obama is a great orator I will spend my free time and money with good PH's. Kudos for handling the situation so well. You will always be a target because you are a successful man. Mabe someday we can hunt together. | |||
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Adam I didn't see myself included to any apology from your post in Bal's report. You chose to use ME in your scenario. I actually have a reason to gripe after how you treated me and Richard when we were your clients in Tanzania. I see you catering to your clients on expensive hunts but any client should be treated decent and honestly no matter what the cost of the hunt. You did neither to me and my friend during and after our hunt with your company. Cry us a river because you feel you are being treated by a double standard. Poor Adam...I have no sympathy for you because I have first hand knowledge of how you treat some of your clients. | |||
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Agents and Outfitter pissing on each other on AR what a shame...you guys are like children. You all should piss on each other outside of a public forum. Is business this bad.... | |||
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Certainly unappealing. | |||
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Adam has gained a lot of respect by fronting up and apologising. Yes calling a spade a spade is a good thing. BUT I think Mike was refering to people who call a spade a BLOODY f****g spade - & that is where things start going pear shaped. Lane might want to consider this point. Yes there are double strandars in this world and in life and in our families. So AR is no differnt. Several month ago I drew a lot of flack from a few people for pointing out the bigotry of loving African hunting but hating Africans & the circumstances that these people had to hunt in. Everyone deserve basic human courtsey and respect. No one cares if you shoot a warthog with 5 inch tusks or a duiker with small horns. There are many photos of non-trophy imature impala on AR Hunt reports. But the really big game do attract more attention and scruitiny. They are special game animals and not the run of the mill. You are sure to scrutinise a Porche or a Ferrari more than a Ford or an Opal. You are sure to be more critical of a poor job from Holland & Holland than from Sabatti. This is all about perception of standards. I still think that the standards at AR are high - not perfect - but better than any other top hunting / shooting website around. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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I agree. I can look back at the vitriolic disagreements that Ray Atkinson and I had publicly on this very forum and while I feel that I was 100% correct and was able to substantiate everything I said I feel that the message was lost and I looked just as bad as Ray for lowering myself to that level. I still have no problem being honest, opinionated or calling a spade a spade but I try to not be so abrasive when doing so. | |||
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JJS you summed it up quite well. | |||
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He hasn't been on in a long time, but if there was anyone who could get a message across that would insult no one it was TCarr. Caleb | |||
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There is one member that I will not name. He posts a lot. He doesn't appear to be the sharpest tool in the shed. He is never rude. However, he get bashed by others all the time. It is embarrassing. I feel sorry for the guy. There is no need for it. We all need to watch our manners on line a little better. | |||
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Will has thick skin...he can handle it! ****************************************************************** R. Lee Ermey: "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." ****************************************************************** We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! 'What the hell could possibly go wrong?' | |||
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Thanks for the nice words about not being rude. Not only you who feels sorry for me, I also feel sorry for myself. If the shoe fits........ In good hunting. Andrew McLaren Andrew McLaren Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974. http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa! Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that: One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it. One cannot cure: Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules! My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt! | |||
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Andrew you dolt you don't have to own up to it. Besides I think Larry is referring to Lane. Wink. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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None of the above actually. The way the person in question is treated is absolutely awful. | |||
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Could be the subject of an interesting poll question.  Mike | |||
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I wonder how many of you guys who have criticized Adam have ever actually even met him. While that in itself doesn't disqualify a person from criticizing someone, it does help in judging a man's character when someone puts it in question, as many of you have. I've met Adam, spent quality time with him and I know he is a man of great character, who has done a hell of a lot of good work for people in Africa. If he could have prevented what happened with AllGone's safari, if he could have stopped those fatal shots from being fired on those immature animals...he would have done it. Instead the damage is done, he can't reverse history. So as a businessman he's tried to do the next best thing--that is make it right. Not a single PH, outfitter or booking agent on this board is perfect. No one. Everyone makes mistakes. You do the best job you can, to employ good people, you delegate responsibility, you exercise quality control and even in all that, sometimes a thing or two will go wrong. Adam's success and the good things he's done for the hunting industry, by light years far outweigh anything that's gone wrong. He's one of the good guys of the hunting industry. He gives back, he employs people who otherwise would be unemployed and he does a ton of beneficial work for communities. OK AllGone's hunt didn't go so well. Let Adam now resolve it, work it out, deal with it and make it right with only the people involved in the problem. I get the whole public forum thing. I'm a media guy, but I must say I'm a little surprised about the number of posts devoted to this thing. If we could focus this much attention on some of the more pressing problems of the hunting industry, we might be able to accomplish real change. | |||
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He wouldn't be Canadian by chance would he? "....but to protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not of soundness of heart." Theodore Roosevelt | |||
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