Age this lion

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26 April 2012, 09:41

jdollar

OK, Brad, and his real( documented) age is????

26 April 2012, 09:51

lavaca

And I'm sensing a "Gotcha".

26 April 2012, 11:05

ozhunter

I would have thought it was old (7 to 12) with its broad nose, pail colour,droopy lips, darker nose, nicks in its face and hair fully around the ears??
I would shoot it provided that was also what the PH thought, it was a good hunt and I had the $$$ .

26 April 2012, 11:12

mouse93

Oz my thoughts exacty - old lion - tho it does not matter much, since I would not shoot any lion unless I would have to.

26 April 2012, 12:22

Bwanamich

Based purely on what the 2nd pic exposes, and assuming no dependant young in tow, BANG!

Other pics from different angles or showing the entire body might indicate the contrary. If you have them, post them.

26 April 2012, 14:24

mboga biga bwana

6,5 years old BANG !!!

26 April 2012, 14:34

Aspen Hill Adventures

Though he does not have much mane his face has an 'old' look to me. I would shoot him.

26 April 2012, 17:23

Aaron Neilson

quote:
Originally posted by Bwanamich:
Based purely on what the 2nd pic exposes, and assuming no dependant young in tow, BANG!

Other pics from different angles or showing the entire body might indicate the contrary. If you have them, post them.

One very distinctive characteristic gives away his elderly state - his sunken eyes! I would like to see his whole body too?

I think he has a beautiful mane personally. I start lion hunting May 24th, if I see him

26 April 2012, 17:33

BEGNO

I really don't know, but if the PH said shoot, well, he wouldn't get any older.

26 April 2012, 18:14

505 gibbs

I'm still waiting for the expert before I reveal further info....

26 April 2012, 18:34

daleW

based on his k-9 profile....young cat 3-4

26 April 2012, 18:42

tygersman

quote:
Originally posted by BEGNO:
I really don't know, but if the PH said shoot, well, he wouldn't get any older.

Well said. Me too.

26 April 2012, 19:21

fujotupu

I doubt there is anyone on this forum who could truly judge a lion's age "on the hoof" to within a year unless he stumbled across the weaning pride and kept tabs on it thereafter.

At face value, the pictured lion is a shooter and would guess it to be over 6 but less than 9yrs

26 April 2012, 19:27

Wink

There is something I don't understand about these "age the lion" threads. If I were to post some pictures of young women and ask you all to tell me if they are over or under 18 years old, what would be the point? Of course I am assuming that some of you have previously seen a young woman.

26 April 2012, 19:28

Aaron Neilson

quote:
Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
I'm still waiting for the expert before I reveal further info....

Hey Brad, rather than always being a shit-disturber, try being part of the solution man! Just when I think maybe you're trying to offer some useful/helpful info, out comes you're under-lying motive, trouble!

If you have further info, please tell us, hopefully we can all learn from it. Without trying to turn this into another shit-slinging argument, that really accomplishes NOTHING!!

26 April 2012, 19:36

Aaron Neilson

quote:
Originally posted by fujotupu:
I doubt there is anyone on this forum who could truly judge a lion's age "on the hoof" to within a year unless he stumbled across the weaning pride and kept tabs on it thereafter.

At face value, the pictured lion is a shooter and would guess it to be over 6 but less than 9yrs

Fujo - You are absolutely correct, and certainly not with any real frequency! Could some do a better job that others as being fairly correct, more often than others - yes I think so. But, always correct - hell no! Nobody on the planet can do that, especially under real-life hunting conditions. Not some lion lying under a tree in the Serengeti, that you've studied, photographed and observed for the past 3 months.

Exactly why I am so stead-fast again the Tanzania LAW that says 6 yrs old or lookout, trouble is coming. I believe the optimal age is 6 yrs plus, and everyone should strive for that, period. But there's a reason IMO that Dr. Begg and the Niassa Carnivore Project have been so successful since 2004 - with their points system.

26 April 2012, 19:49

505 gibbs

quote:
I doubt there is anyone on this forum who could truly judge a lion's age "on the hoof" to within a year unless he stumbled across the weaning pride and kept tabs on it thereafter.

At face value, the pictured lion is a shooter and would guess it to be over 6 but less than 9yrs

good post

quote:
Hey Brad, rather than always being a shit-disturber, try being part of the solution man! Just when I think maybe you're trying to offer some useful/helpful info, out comes you're under-lying motive, trouble!

If you have further info, please tell us, hopefully we can all learn from it. Without trying to turn this into another shit-slinging argument, that really accomplishes NOTHING!!

Aaron Neilson

Hey Aaron, stop being such a self righteous, stodgy old curmudgeon. You take yourself, your cause and this forum entirely too seriously and it borders on rediculous. There is nothing wrong with having a little fun (even at your own expense sometimes) and stirring the pot. Besides, I was actuallly hoping Lane would scan this youngster into his super computer and spit out a DOB.

quote:
Fujo - You are absolutely correct, and certainly not with any real frequency! Could some do a better job that others as being fairly correct, more often than others - yes I think so. But, always correct - hell no! Nobody on the planet can do that, especially under real-life hunting conditions. Not some lion lying under a tree in the Serengeti, that you've studied, photographed and observed for the past 3 months.

Exactly why I am so stead-fast again the Tanzania LAW that says 6 yrs old or lookout, trouble is coming. I believe the optimal age is 6 yrs plus, and everyone should strive for that, period. But there's a reason IMO that Dr. Begg and the Niassa Carnivore Project have been so successful since 2004 - with their points system.

Aaron Neilson
Global Hunting Resources

preserved for posterity.

26 April 2012, 20:22

lavaca

Man, I'm really bad at judging cats.

26 April 2012, 20:59

Dave Fulson

Straight to the Wildlife Gallery, left turn, mouth slightly open. Have just the spot picked out.
Dave

26 April 2012, 21:00

whelenite

I admit to knowing absolutely nothing about aging lions, but am a pretty good ager of whitetail deer. It would be very helpful to see more of the body, but he just does not look old in the face to me.

Under 6, NO SHOOT.

26 April 2012, 21:21

Andrew McLaren

Het Brad,

How big are those picture files? My connection her is very slow - but normally I can manage a picture or two. These seem to be downloading forever, and the best that I could do is getting up to just the eats of the first picture. Any hope of compressing them into a JPEG format, just for the benifit of the few of us with inherently slow Internet connections?

Keep well.

Andrew McLaren
Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974.

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Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com

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One cannot cure:

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26 April 2012, 21:38

MJines

In my opinion, this thread really highlights the absurdity of folks calling out others for shooting lions that are perceived to be "too young". Fact is that even when folks have the luxury of staring at several pictures for as long as they want, the opinions are all over the map. Compare that to sitting in a blind in dim light, with fleeting glimpses, at the tail end of an 18 or 21 day hunt, running on a few hours of sleep . . . just too many variables in my view to suggest that someone should be judged or ridiculed after the fact.

26 April 2012, 21:59

wtnut

Mike my thoughts exactly. Good post!

26 April 2012, 22:35

Bwana Bunduki

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
In my opinion, this thread really highlights the absurdity of folks calling out others for shooting lions that are perceived to be "too young". Fact is that even when folks have the luxury of staring at several pictures for as long as they want, the opinions are all over the map. Compare that to sitting in a blind in dim light, with fleeting glimpses, at the tail end of an 18 or 21 day hunt, running on a few hours of sleep . . . just too many variables in my view to suggest that someone should be judged or ridiculed after the fact.

26 April 2012, 22:43

Dave Fulson

Well said Mike, agree 100% !!

26 April 2012, 22:43

465H&H

quote:
Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
quote:
Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
I'm still waiting for the expert before I reveal further info....

Hey Brad, rather than always being a shit-disturber, try being part of the solution man! Just when I think maybe you're trying to offer some useful/helpful info, out comes you're under-lying motive, trouble!

If you have further info, please tell us, hopefully we can all learn from it. Without trying to turn this into another shit-slinging argument, that really accomplishes NOTHING!!

Aaron,

Lighten up man! I think the thread is valuable to show just how difficult it can be to age a lion. 505's post appears to accomplish its purpose.

465H&H

26 April 2012, 23:05

505 gibbs

quote:
Het Brad,

How big are those picture files? My connection her is very slow - but normally I can manage a picture or two. These seem to be downloading forever, and the best that I could do is getting up to just the eats of the first picture. Any hope of compressing them into a JPEG format, just for the benifit of the few of us with inherently slow Internet connections?

Keep well.

Andrew McLaren

Andrew,
Would do, if I had any idea how to do what you ask, unfortunately I do not. My apologies, perhaps if you tried about 3am when none of the other villagers were tying up the party line.

27 April 2012, 03:41

ledvm

6-7 year old if in a hunting area. If he is a park lion...maybe a little older.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.

27 April 2012, 03:48

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
6-7 year old if in a hunting area. If he is a park lion...maybe a little older.

Lane,

What is the difference between a hunting area and park in aging this lion? Not a gotcha question. Just trying to learn.

Todd

27 April 2012, 04:04

chilcotin hillbilly

I know nothing about lions from Africa but he looks well past his prime, I would guess eight if I had a gun to my head.

27 April 2012, 04:17

Matt Graham

quote:
Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
and just for giggles, admit whether you would shoot him or not...

might depend if he was chewing on my foot!!

27 April 2012, 04:32

SteveGl

OK; I'll bite. Young ... maybe 3 1/2 years, based solely upon jowls condition (whether or not that's even a determinant).

27 April 2012, 04:56

jdollar

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
In my opinion, this thread really highlights the absurdity of folks calling out others for shooting lions that are perceived to be "too young". Fact is that even when folks have the luxury of staring at several pictures for as long as they want, the opinions are all over the map. Compare that to sitting in a blind in dim light, with fleeting glimpses, at the tail end of an 18 or 21 day hunt, running on a few hours of sleep . . . just too many variables in my view to suggest that someone should be judged or ridiculed after the fact.

i agree 100%- but it sure doesn't stop some folks here from hammering the hell out of others for doing just that.

27 April 2012, 05:01

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
6-7 year old if in a hunting area. If he is a park lion...maybe a little older.

Lane,

What is the difference between a hunting area and park in aging this lion? Not a gotcha question. Just trying to learn.

Todd

Based soley on the one picture...I believe this lion to be "aged"...based on facial features, the color of his body coat and the atrophied appearance of his skin that I can see.

The shear odds of finding a lion in a hunting block >7 are not great. Life in a hunting block is harder as well...but mainly the fact that their just ain't many 8 and above lions roaming hunting blocks. I have seen some teenage park lion that were still fairing fairly well.