The bullet above is not a North Fork Cup Point.

African hunting with North Fork Cup Point bullets: More than enough for anything?

Certainly more than enough for buffalo, hippo, rhino.

Would they be usable on elephant brain and body shots?

I plan to test the North Fork Cup Point .474/500gr against the .475/500gr Flat Point in the Steel Mistress: 1" of wood to 7 inches of water, repeated out to 9 feet.

Hypothetically, if the Flat Point is a 10 on a penetration scale, and the Cup point is a 7 or 8 (I'm guessing), could one use either bullet on elephant interchangeably? This assumes that most softs will be in the 3 to 5 range on penetration, and definitely not to be used at all on elephant.

I spoke with Mike brady about the Cup Point "Solid" regarding this misnomer for an expanding bullet.

We should not call it a solid as in "CPS." FPS is great for the "Flat Point Solid."

Casting about I first thought CPLE for "Cup Point Limited Expansion." Then no, CPU for "Cup Point Unlimited." Mikes quick rejoiner was "How about Universal, as in Cup Point Universal?"

Epiphany time like a lightning bolt! Perfect.

"CPU" for "Cup Point Universal." Use it on anything, even deer. It is a shallow hollowpoint of a big meplat. Expands slightly into a larger hammer and keeps on penetrating in a straight line with about 100% weight retention.

It won't be long before others are copying North Fork.

What brought this up was clarification of the .505 and .509/.510 wish list.

Just getting 100 boxes of 50 bullets per box spoken for is all that is necessary. Mike cannot invest in materials to just leave sitting on the shelf, not to mention the value added of his work, and the R&D time and energy needed to start producing the first .505's and .510's.

Cup Point Universal bullets.

Bridger Brass Flat Nose Bullets might be the way to go for "solids." We shall keep our fingers crossed on those too.

Why not let North Fork concentrate on CPU's? There is no other bullet like it out there, for now it is unique, and incredibly effective from field reports on buffalo. Some shooting of smaller meat animals for the pot using CPU's is needed to establish it as neither soft nor solid, but UNIVERSAL. There is nothing soft about a CPU. No failure possible.

So, let us all call Mike Brady at North Fork and leave him a credit card number for when the bullets are ready to ship. He has mine.

lb404 is a definite on this, and I am too.

I cannot speak for LB's total order, but I hope he and i don't have to buy 50 boxes each.

It's really simple, and a very generous thing for Mike Brady to offer to make these bullets, hopefully to reap benefits when they catch on, but the .505 and .510 sporting activity is pretty small in reality, "internet talk" aside.
Hopefully this will not be a limited run for the "I got mine" nucleus of dedicated Big fifty Fans. Make it happen guys!

Mike could have stocking inventory of these standards:

.505 525 grain: Classic .505 Gibbs
.510 535 grain: Classic .500 Jeffery
.509 570 grain: Classic .500 NE and Jeffery

Additionally he could stock the CPU in:

.505 500 grains
.510 500 grains

The latter two would be in the ballpark of .280 sectional density for those two calibers, and really do a number on game of any kind at slightly higher velocity than the classic weights.

As for 600 grain .505 or .510, this is totally unnecessary. That bullet weight is a modern concoction for the Barnes Original fragmentation grenades.

Make it happen guys.
Talk to Mike Brady:

email: http://www.northfork@vcn.com

phone: (307) 436-2726

Made in USA, shipped in USA, no problems at all getting them a few days after Mike sends them out the door.

quote:

Casting about I first thought CPLE for "Cup Point Limited Expansion." Then no, CPU for "Cup Point Unlimited." Mikes quick rejoiner was "How about Universal, as in Cup Point Universal?"

A PH who saw the NF CPS in action on buff and giraffe, upon seeing the expanded bullets and wound channel, dubbed them the "Shovel Nose Bullet".

I would use the Bridger solids on elephant head shots or the GS Customs FN solids, either one will work like a charm....

The North Fork cup point is my favorite Buffalo bullet, It even works fine on plainsgame, but I don't want an expanding bullet of any kind on brain shots for elephant, at least until someone else trys them...

I have talked with Mike at Northfork and he won't recommend his FN solid or Cup point for elephant brain shots. They were designed for use on Buffalo, albiet I would bet money his FN solid would work fine on elephant head shots..I know either would work wonderfully for body shots broadside...The Cup Point and FN solids need to be tried before judgement is passed on them, however....

500grains,
CPU's do a great job of shoveling through anything, you say?

Ray,
Other forum members here have certainly proven the GSC Copper FN to be up to elephant, and surely good enough for "any shot you want." I killed a cape buffalo with one shot from a GSC FN. It was a complete pass through on-side shoulder bone (humerus), atria of heart and out into the mopane thicket on the off-side. I wish I had more personal experience, but don't ...

Unless there is a very strange difference between North Fork and GSC copper and its temper, the North Fork FP should be identical to the GSC FN in performance, eh?

The Bridger Brass is harder than copper, agreed. If anyone COULD GUARANTEE a bullet for brain shooting elephant, it would have to be Bridger. I am hoping the Bridger solids will become available in all the calibers from .375 up. Still, I think it would take a steel drum full of sand to make either the NF FP or GSC FN deform at all. And they are much better than the FMJ "solids."

So what is available in a soft for .505 Gibbs, 500 Jeffery, and 500 NE? Woodleighs? Those are O.K. for the 2150 fps 500 NE. The lighter and faster ones in the Gibbs and Jeffery are totally unsuitable, as they turn inside out too easily ... they do hold together well but they pancake and stop too soon.

I will gladly be the field tester of North Fork Cup Point Universal bullets in .505 and .509 caliber, on elephant brain shots and elephant body shots. I've got a feeling that they will do the job even there.

If you want to get into hunting something really big like blue whales, then the Bridger Brass Solid in 30mm caliber will be the choice from the air, or a rocket propelled superpenetrator torpedo underwater.
Elephant are not too big or bad for a CPU.

I am not too proud to beg, just like Nelson Mandela.
I am begging you folks to call Mike Brady at North Fork and sign up for some .505 and .510 and .509 CPU's.

OK, I will take 10 boxes of the .509 shovel nose 570 grain bullet.

Hooray! Way to go 500grains.
I'll do the same: 10 boxes of .509/570gr Cup Point

Will anyone else step up to bat?

If so, call Mike Brady.

I am also interested in 10 boxes of the .505 caliber 525 grain Cup Point. That one has a SD of .294 and is the traditional bullet weight for the .505 Gibbs. It should be a real killer as a CUP.

Now how many will lb404 want?

We may be halfway or more to 100 boxes already between just the three of us.

It can happen.

Rip,
Apparantly you need to reread my post, I plainly stated that GSC was a good bullet for brain shooting elephant, even so stated in the first Paragraph so what @#$%^^& are you talking about... The GSC has been used on 100s of elephants with no failures by Johan Calitz, who talked me into trying them.

If you talk to Mike he will tell you that he used a softer metal mix and was not sure what his bullets would do on elephant, and was hesitant to produce them based on that.. I am content to let you shoot'em first, if you like'um then I will try um!

I field tested the Bridger FN, Northforks in soft, FN solids and cup points on Buffalo, before they were put on the market, along with the 350 and 450 gr. 375 and 416 Woodleigh RN, solids and PP, so its your turn on the elephants brains!! thats where it can get cheeky, I don't like playing silly games with thoes big boys, there is nothing to send home to mama and the kids if your bullet fails at the wrong time....So they need field testing on elephant..I am sure the Northforks will work on body shots broadside as I also stated.

I am in the game already with 10 boxes each for the Gibbs and the Jeffery, total 20 Boxes!!!!!

Ray,
Fair enough.

I get confused when "FN" is used to describe the "FP" by North Fork.

Also, I am glad to hear you say that there is a metallurgical difference between the North Fork FP and the GSC FN. I have not pinned that one down as yet. That is a start.

I will still gladly shoot elephant brains with North fork FP and CPU bullets as field tester.

Still hoping to have lb404 post which bullets he has decided on: weights?

This is a chance to be a founding member of the "North Fork Fifty Club."

It is polite to share such an honor.

The Club roster so far:

Leonard
Dan
Ron

lb404,
I assume .505/525gr and .510/535 for your selections?
We are half way to 100 boxes just between us three so far.

Batter up!

Ray needs to get busy turning a P14 Enfield into a classy .505 Gibbs so he can board this train.

Anyone thinking of rebarreling a CZ550 in 416 Rigby to 500 A-Square or 510 Wells (which is the easiest 50 caliber conversion going) would also benefit from this special run of bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
lb404,
I assume .505/525gr and .510/535 for your selections?
We are half way to 100 boxes just between us three so far.

Batter up!

Those are the weights Mike recommended. These bullets are already long for caliber. He did not feel anything could be gained with heavier bullets except on the double rifle and only for regulation concerns. He did say he would make the 570 gr. for the Jeffery and Gibbs if the demand was there. For me I am satisfied knowing that the regulation weights of bullets will be forthcomming.

I have not used monolithic solids and have never felt the need to do so, since Woodleighs have always been up to the task. I don't doubt that a mono would be "better" but it's hard to imagine ever needing more than four or five feet of penetration.

As for the NFs, I hadn't thought about the long for caliber problem with monos. So a 600 grainer would be overkill. Still and all, I'd certainly be willing to try a NF 570 grain .510" flat nose solid, if one was made, and made of suitable alloy, for elephant.

But for buff, I have 570 gain Barnes Xs and 600 grain Woodleigh PPs in .510", whichever I want. And I have to think that if you want a tough expanding bullet, it would be better to have one that will open up more than a CPU.

Plus, I'm not much of an experimenter, and I'm definitely of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school. All by way of saying maybe, but I remain to be convinced that this is the right way to go.

mrlexma,
If Mike will make the .509/570gr FPS, I'll take 10 boxes of those too.

Then why not the .509/570gr FPS as a mate to the CPU?

You know the old Barnes 570gr XLC and 600gr solid brass were .509" and do very well in my 500A2/.510JAB AND your 500A2 AHR. The .509/570gr FPS would also appeal to 500 NE, 500 A2, .510 Wells, and 500 Jeffery shooters.

Then a .505/570gr FPS and maybe Nickudu would get interested in that, as well as the .505/525 CPU?

This might be getting close to do-able if Mike would agree:

.505/525gr CPU
10 lb404
10 RIP

.505/570gr FPS
10 RIP
10 ???

.510/535gr CPU
10 lb404
10 RIP

.509/570gr CPU
10 500grains
10 RIP

.509/570gr FPS
10 RIP
10 ???

That would be 100 boxes if do-able.
So I will be "batting" for 50 boxes if some other batters will pinch hit for the other 20 boxes above indicated by "???".

Or would anyone else be wanting something different? Let's talk about it.

Most might be reluctant to take the leap of faith to a 500 grain CPU in .505 or .510. I am too, since the .505/525gr and the .510/.535gr seem most important in the CPU.

Unfortunately this is all, still, just talk, but I will confirm on 50 boxes if others will take up the remaining 50 and IF Mike agrees to the choices, which includes making some FPS in addition to the CPU.

Any suggestions?

SOME DON'T SEE THIS AS A PROBLEM???

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:


Any suggestions?

Get your checkbook ready! I don't know what these bullets will cost, but Mike is always reasonable. Assuming $65 for a box of 50, RIP's bill will be $3,250.00 plus shipping. That's almost enough to pay the observer fee on your next safari.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
SOME DON'T SEE THIS AS A PROBLEM???

Anytime a .500 Jeff bullet is recovered from a bushbuck at all, there is a serious problem.

The expansion on the bushbuck was perfect and as designed.

These highly modified Woodleigh softs have a sensor within adapted from the "on demand" technology of Wonder Bras. When it recognizes smaller game, it pushes up lead, exposing more and making the bullet more susceptible to expansion. No use having too much penetration and wasting energy???.

Ain't much to do this Saturday afternoon on a rainy day in Georgia.

BTW, Woodleigh calls its new invention "Timed Increase Technology Sensors".

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:

BTW, Woodleigh calls its new invention "Timed Increase Technology Sensors".

So the Woodleigh Weldcores should come with a listing of cup size along with BC and SD under the new TITS system.

BTW, speaking of cups, I shot the .474/500gr CPU today and got exactly 2125 fps with 109 grains of H4831SC.

Oddly enough, the .475/500gr NorthFork gave me only 2096 fps with the same load.

Good/equal accuracy with both, and the same Extreme Spread of 14 fps for 4 shots and a group of about 2" RLRL at 50 yards.

I cannot explain the slower velocity with the .475 FPS over the .474 CPU, except that the length of the CPU is greater than the FPS, and more shank lenght is seated, and more bands are present on the CPU.

I reckon the .509 diameter would be no detriment over a .510, and the .509 would be better all around if North Fork makes them similarly as with the .474.

CPU or CUP?: Cup Universal Point

I just received a shipment of bullets from DaveC of the ARF. At first blush there seems to be less than 1/8"difference(I will measure later) in the length of the 540gr. and the 570gr in the GS FN solids. If that difference is the same for the NorthFork bullets then there really isn't a need for two weights. Mike says the 535gr for Jeffery would be able to be driven a littlefaster and that a little faster speed is better for the Cup point expansion factor. I do like the look of these FN Soilds.

btt

RIP, as I read this thread, it seems that Mike at NF doesn't recommend his FP solids for elephant.

As I'm hunting elephant this year, that's a problem for me. I've pretty much settled on the 600 grain Woodleigh solid. If I were convinced that the NF FP solid was truly and significantly better, I'd switch in half a second. But Mike apparently doesn't think his bullets are hard enough for elephant.

And for reasons noted above, as far as the CUPs are concerned, I'm not (yet, anyway) a believer that they're "better" than the 570 grain Barnes X or the 600 grain Woodleigh PP (the latter at an impact velocity of 2,250 fps or less, as Woodleigh recommends).

I'll let you guys be the pioneers and I'll stick with the tried and true for the time being. And I will be watching your test results with the Steel Mistress with great interest.