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I am a neophyte here, having never shot anything larger or more dangerous than a squirrel, but growing up in the 70"s I read all I could about African hunting, and it seemed to me that due to loss of habitat, poaching, and political unrest, the age of the African hunt was over forever. For 20 years I ignored the shooting sports (marriage, career, kids, etc), then recently got back in. Via this forum I see that hunting is alive and well in Africa, and that at least 4 of the big 5 are still present in populations sufficient to allow legal hunting. ( I assume the rhino is still 100% protected??) How did this happen? Are the populations on the rise? Was money from hunters themselves contributary to the rescue of hunting habitat and species? Thanks for any help understanding this, Paul | ||
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Paul, Real simple answewr to your question. Hunitng has saved African wildlife from the maw of extinction. The safari hunting industry has assigned value to animals where they are otherwise considered a nuisance. It is more profitable to sell an elephant to hunter that to kill it for it's ivory. With out hunting and the funds that it derives outside of parks there would be no wild animals left on the contienent. Of course we've recived no credit for from your average soccer mom or various NGO's and so called conservation groups. But the numbers are out there and the truth is that hunters are responsible for the ever increasing numbers of wildlife in Africa. Oh and just by the way there is limited hunting of both species of rhino both black and white. And yes..The funds to bring these animals back from the brink were nearly 100% from hunters. Greg Allyn | |||
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Paul, Surestike has put the truth in a nutshell. Wild animals and their habitat were saved by the hunters and a couple of governments that helped set the example of what good coordinated management can do. The Campfire Program in Zimbabwe showed how the local population can benefit from hunting when the PH's and hunters share the rewards and the South African government, through the respect of private property, allowed large farms and ranches to to leave the bush as it is when hunting provides revenue for the owners. By the way, even Kenya has reversed course and just recently passed a law allowing limited hunting. Let's hope the trend continues. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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Paul, What the others have written above is the truth. Having been to 22 african countrys, I can add that the amount of wildlife in "huntable" countrys exceeds the amount of wildlife in "non-huntable" countrys to such a degree that it isn't even compairable. Giving wildlife a value is the only way for animals to survive in africa. Wild animlas in africa that have no potential of bringing in cash to the community will end up as poached bushmeat, or as voodoo/witchdoctor fetishes. That's just the way it is. The result of no legal hunting, that would otherwise protect the wildlife (from the fetish market in Lome, Togo) :    | |||
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quote: Well, the glory days of old are gone and gone forever, but there is still hunting. Lots of changes and restrictions along with permanent camps, mostlyu. | |||
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You say the good old days are gone. THE GOOD OLD DAYS ARE RIGHT NOW Something to think about. Brooks | |||
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and yes there is still a fair amount of hunting to be had in Africa. But it is nothing at all like the hunting there in the '50s and '60s or even into the '70s. There is no more Big 5, now just the 4 remain. Try getting a lion and an elephant on one hunt..it's possible but very unlikely if your standards of trophy quality are anywhere above shooting the first thing you see. What's there is much better than nothing at all, but the entire experience is not on a level with days gone by, IMO. Not with all the airline and customs hassles, nor the need to avoid most activity around the major cities like Jo-Burg or Dar. | |||
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John, I have to disagree with you. It's still easily possible to hunt the Big 5......even the original Big 5 as the Black Rhino has now been re-introduced back onto the quarry list. (They will be obscenely expensive for the first few years though) Why is it difficult to take good Lion and good Elephant on the same hunt? A 21 day licence in Tanzania allows the client to take 1 Lion, 1 Elephant, 1 Leopard, 3 Buffalo, plus Hippo, Croc and a whole lot of other species as well. It would be expensive, but not particularly difficult. Good African hunting has always been expensive and it still is but if you add on the factor that in the "old days" the average DG hunt was over a considerably longer time period than it is now, you could easily argue that hunting standards in many African countries have not declined a great deal......changed perhaps, but not declined by much. If a client gave me a big enough budget, sufficient notice and sufficient time I could easily put something together that would pretty much guarantee he would take all of the Big 5 (including the Black Rhino) and a hell of a lot more besides - All on the same (two country - 3 destination) hunt......and the client certainly wouldn't be shooting the first animal he saw.........apart from anything else, many African countries have extremely strict minimum size limitations.  As with many things in life, it's more a case of time and money......sadly, most of us lack one or the other or both.  | |||
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Steve- I agree that if given plenty of time and money, anything is possible. But, where do you hunt black rhino on a free range concession area? Yes, in TZ one can pull off the big four, but to get it plus a nice lion and the rest of the "glamour" species you'd better plan on 30 days...or more! Even then it's not a sure thing. The hunting for many species is so limited these days that even if you have enough time and cash the outfitters don't have the permits. Look at what's happened in Botswana...how many situtunga are each outfitter allowed? How many lions, now that they have re-opened hunting for them? How about leopard or sable or even kudu? Your in good shape if you want an elephant and/or a buffalo, but what else? All in all, there is still a lot of great hunting to be had, no doubt of that. But it isn't like it used to be, not in so many ways. | |||
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On the other hand, average Joes like me or you can hunt Africa with a little luck, whereas back in the 60's it was as likely as a trip to the moon. Imagine taking a 45 day safari + 1-2 weeks travel time and returning home expecting to still have a job! The old fashioned safaris are possible, just like you can still drive a vintage car if you have the time and patience, BUT the new version of the safari experience ain't bad at all! | |||
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Absolutely. However, even if someone has the money and time to do a prolonged hunt, there is no guarantee of great success. Lots of factors enter into the equation, and I was reminded of this just this past summer. A good friend made his once in a lifetime trip to Tanzania for the 21 day experience. He booked with one of the "top" outfits and was in a couple of the "best" areas. He never took a lion, nor did he see one with any kind of mane past crew cut length. He did take three nice buffalo and a leopard, plus several very nice species of plains game. His trip was a great experience for him, but was his failure to take a lion somewhat typical, or just an aberration? I myself have made several trips for a lion and was successful on one occasion, luckily! | |||
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Paul,the good old days for those with the substance and courage to hunt as much as they will are certainly gone. However what is left is more accessible to the means of the average family raising guy than ever before. Most everyone can get a small bite of what's left you could say. Karl. | |||
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quote: No, today's experience isn't bad, but it is sure a step down from the 'ld days. If you have done them both and you cannot tell the difference, then I think you missed something on your early trips. Just my opinion. | |||
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quote: I think, "big enough budget" is the significant part of the statement! "Average Joe's" made the trips in earlier times also, once the Trans-atlantic flights became common. We didn't get to stay 45-60 days unless it was at retirement time, but we had some fantastic hunts for the oney, relative to our income compared to today in my opinion. Trophy fees alone today make the total expense of the past look like a paupers vacation expense in an alley, so to speak. | |||
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John, As I said it's all about money. Inexpensive hunts can still be had in Africa......and that has always been the case, but it's also always been the case that if someone has the money to spend on a good quality extended hunt they will have a hell of a good time........sure they might not get everything they want, but that's always been the same and is why it's called hunting and not shooting. The mistake some people make is that the opt for the cheapest offer and then are less than happy that they were disappointed in some way. Quality has always only come at a price... What astounds me is that so many people not only fail to realise that simple fact of life they also fail to recognise bad quality when it almost bites them on the ass. If someone wants a top class hunt in a top class area etc they have to pay for it. | |||
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John, I apologise for not answering your post entirely before. I forgot to say that one of the areas we use in TZ has excellent sitatunga hunting, (we can even see them from the camp) but it does require an additional charter to get there. As to the Rhino hunting, I'm sorry to say that it's all fenced.......although one of the PHs who freelances for us tells me that when he was hunting in Mozambique last year for us, he saw some fresh B. Rhino spoor. There's been rumours of the odd one up there still for a while, but I don't know anyone who's actually seen one there. | |||
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