I am planning a trip to Africa in 2011 and bought a new heym safaris 500NE. Through study on forums and research it appears the Heym is much like a shotgun in handling and is not bad in recoil. Even though I have never fired one, I believe with practice it could be mastered. The loads it is regulated with are the hornady 570 grain therefore that is the load I will use. If anyone has some good advice on shooting techniques and skill development it would be greatly appreciated.

You should post this on the double rifle forum here at AR. You will find that there are light loads that will shoot to regulation in your rifle.

And that is a good thing, since recoil will be stout and you will be best served working up to it.

Learning to tolerate recoil is just a matter of time and discipline. Time to do the necessary shooting and the discipline to go do it.

Start with the reduced loads, which will still provide stout recoil. Shoot a few and move on to your other African rifle... Come back to the range no later than a week later and shoot the same number as before and a few more... repeat, and begin working in a few full house loads... repeat working in more full house loads...

I would guess that ten to fifteen full house loads per session is as many as you'll be able to work up to. That is fine. You won't feel the recoil with an elephant or buff standing in front of you!

But frequency of practice is critical. Lay off a month and you'll be nearly starting over. Three and you might as well start at the beginning. Shooting a heavy recoiling but less expensive to shoot rifle will help keep the costs down as well.

Here is a start at reduced loads, but fellows who have 500's will have some cast bullet loads that will be lower in recoil and cheaper to shoot. Light loads: There is a "rule" that most double rifles follow, it is often called the "75% rule". When you have found the load that matches the load your rifle was regulated with, take a bullet that weighs 75% of the full bullet weight. Here 570grs x .75 = ~425grs. Load that bullet over the powder charge that you use for the full house loads. You should be close to shooting to regulation. Might need to tweak the load up or down a grain or so, but most rifles will be close.

Best of luck. What are you planning on hunting?

JPK

I regularly shoot a .458 Lott with 500 grain bullets at 2250fps without any recoil issues. There is a noticeable difference when i shoot the .500 Nitro with full house loads. But take the very good advice given by JPK and you will have no problem. Also make 100% that the gun fits you properly, that is half the battle won.

The Heym is a beautiful rifle, i am sure that you will love it

quote:

I would guess that ten to fifteen full house loads per session is as many as you'll be able to work up to.

What is this, some kind of comedy routine?

Unless this guy weighs 300 lbs. and the rifle weighs, 15 lbs., he'll be punch drunk after 10 and probably hospitalized after 15.

Poor old Larry dislocated his finger with the first shot from his Heym 500. But don't let that scare you.

But JPK gives some good advice. Have fun with your new toy.

So you guys are saying that my 11 lb 500 Jeffery that's coming in next week is going to hurt?



Chuck

There is no doubt that the 500NE Heym double rifle will let you know you have fired a REAL rifle. That being said, the 500NE is, in my opinion, the best chambering for serious double rifle hunting for dangerous game from Buffalo to elephant.
With the advice JPK gave you, if followed, will have you shooting it well in no time. There are others, too, who own 500NE double rifles that will help you with some useful loads that will cut cost, and let you practice far more than factory ammo will. Go to the double rifle forum on AR and post this, and I think you will get a lot of help in short order.

Good luck, and congratulations on you new Heym.

Welcome to the wacky world of double rifles, and to the DRSS!

JPK
Thanks for the good advice.
I will be going for cape buffalo, sable and elephant if it is possible to find one that needs to be removed due to crop raiding. It doesn't matter cow or bull. Maybe a kudu might run across our path and for that my 340 weatherby should be sufficient. I will post the original message on the double forum.
By the way, does a caste frying pan over the head help get one used to recoil because my wife is threatening to do just that after buying this rifle.
Zig.

You might want to consider loading only one barrel at a time for a while when practicing. If you double that rifle, amazing things will happen. There is much pro and con discussion about which trigger first. I doubled a 470 once and ever since have learned rear trigger first works best for me. Have fun with your rifle!!!

Too late now, brother man. Money done gone.

But just go ahead and pull the trigger and see how you feel, anyway.

If you feel fine - keep on pulling that trigger.

But if you feel as though you have been hit by a Mack truck, then please send me a PM describing your symptoms in clinical detail.

I will then prescribe a cure. I will magnanimously offer to take that God-awful, smack-down, double rifle pain machine off your hands for fifty cents on the dollar.

Seventy five if raised, but not a penny more.

Just kidding. See my comments in the below thread for useful advice:

How to Shoot a Big Bore

Just ignore the part about cycling the bolt.

The .500 NE does kick a bit. However, if you reload, you will find that using RL 15 powder SIGNIFICANTLY reduces felt recoil over other powders. My double seems to shoot the powder pretty accurately as well.

Geronimo

lol ahahahahaha punch drunk after 15 rounds your kidding me...

i used to shoot 20-40 rounds in a session with my searcy 500 nitro

and 15-20 rounds with my 700 nitro

and now with my ryan breeding 505 gibbs shooting 600 grain bullets at 2250-2300
i regularly shoot 10-25 rounds depends how much time i have.

heck i accedently doubles a 577 nitro with wet hands with no ill effects at 1 of the drss shoots at camp coolie tx

quote:

RL 15 powder SIGNIFICANTLY

Is that the case? I use RL15 in all of my big guns and I really like it. I'm glad to hear that about the powder.

700grains said it all, recoil is really in your head. None of these big rifles kick as bad as people think. I can easily shoot 50 rounds from my .577 or .600 if I could afford it. Especially the latter. I have a Searcy .500 too and I am sorry but I have no idea why people are worried about recoil in these calibers. All they may take is some getting use to. No more.

Beat me up now, internet hero's

-with my 577 Tyrannosaur I am done after 15-20 full house loads in one session. And the recoil shooting an 800 grs bullet at 2460 f/s or a 750 grs at 2600 is WAY bigger than the 500NE... So you should be fine shooting at least 20-30 rounds in a session.

quote:

Originally posted by buffalo:
-with my 577 Tyrannosaur I am done after 15-20 full house loads in one session. And the recoil shooting an 800 grs bullet at 2460 f/s or a 750 grs at 2600 is WAY bigger than the 500NE... So you should be fine shooting at least 20-30 rounds in a session.

Actually I was exaggerating a bit. I must admit that 15-20 full house loads with the above combination is enough to make me tender and my head aching..

quote:

Originally posted by koboko:
700grains said it all, recoil is really in your head. None of these big rifles kick as bad as people think. I can easily shoot 50 rounds from my .577 or .600 if I could afford it. Especially the latter. I have a Searcy .500 too and I am sorry but I have no idea why people are worried about recoil in these calibers. All they may take is some getting use to. No more.

Beat me up now, internet hero's

"Recoil is all in your head" - that is correct. My head hurts when hit with that kind of recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

"Recoil is all in your head" - that is correct. My head hurts when hit with that kind of recoil.

That is very FUNNY!

I have been doing load development on my 500 MDM the last couple of weeks. Probably a bit more recoil than a 500 Nitro, although not 100% for sure as I have never shot a 500 Nitro. But my 500 MDM is a .500 caliber, Winchester M70 21 inch barrel, and weighs 8.5 lbs. I am shooting 550 gr solids at a tad over 2200 fps, 510 gr Solids at 2300 fps and 470 gr bullets at 2425 fps. Seems the 550s and that mass has a bit more recoil hitting my cheek, rattling the brain around a bit. I find that 3 Excedrin solves all my issues. So the key to recoil might be found in a bottle, who knows? dogcat is on to something I think!

Feels a little like this looks!

Michael

As someone who boxed in his teens in N.Y.C. I can tell you getting a headache after getting knocked around is not a good sign lol. Seriously, if there are any M.D.s online I encourage them to chip in. My suggestion is add weight (mercury recoil reducers) a muzzle brake, shoot with a lead sled, or god forbid go to a lighter caliber . Of course I'm the one who is having his 375 H&H rebarreled to 500 Jeffery, but I will take my own advice if I show any signs of a headache after shooting it.

Regards,

Chuck

quote:

Originally posted by Zigfreed:
If anyone has some good advice on shooting techniques and skill development it would be greatly appreciated.

Here are a few pictures showing some different techniques employed when firing a .500 Krieghoff.

Okay...




Okay again...




Looking good...



Poetry




Not so poetic - this chap was advised to work on his technique.

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:

quote:

Originally posted by Zigfreed:
If anyone has some good advice on shooting techniques and skill development it would be greatly appreciated.

Here are a few pictures showing some different techniques employed when firing a .500 Krieghoff.

Okay...




Okay again...




Looking good...



Poetry




Not so poetic - this chap was advised to work on his technique.

Zig,

Dan McCarthy, one of the most observant and experienced elephant hunters to ever post here, very graciously let me shoot his two .500's in the winter of 2007 in Salt Lake.

I only weigh 132 pounds but I could still shoot Dan's, Searcy and Hambrusch reasonably well on my first try.







I shot four rounds from each. First two shots were most accurate!

As you can see, I was bundled up for winter, not in a T shirt or open collar shirt for African hunting.

I had a bit of a wrench in my neck for a couple days after, and i can normally shot a box full of full power 450 Dakota.

The 500 kicks. 8 rounds was my limit or else I would have developed a flinch.

The more expensive and somewhat lighter Hambrusch had much less felt recoil than the Searcy. Just fit me better. Something about the cheek weld.

Andy

Shoot the round regulated for your rifle all the time. The "reduced" loads and work up in a double is horseshit advice.

Technique? There are a few things:

Actual hands holding the rifle, the shoulder and the body and leg stance.

The hands: Hold on to the rifle with a very secure grip - I mean really hold it as if it is a very precious thing that someone [recoil] wants to pull from your hands and dump it on the ground.

The shoulders: Look at the first photo posted by David Hulme. See that the shoulder to shoulder axis makes about a 45 degree angle with the rifle? OK, but keep the body in that position and push the stock contact - here right for a roght-handed shooter - forward. This will make a 'cup' or 'notch' between the front of your chest and the actual shoulder knob. Make sure the stock is held there, right in the notch - which puts the stock against muscles - not bone. Now pull the rifle back into the shoulder tightly and attempt to 'lock up' the right shoulder in anticipation of the recoil: As if you want to prevent the shoulder being pucked backwards by the recoil.

Body: More weight on front foot and lean forwards a bit - you can see this in the second photo.

The combined effect is the recoil first moving the shoulder back, and only then beginning to push the whole body back.You have a progressive transfer of recoil energy to your body, and the whole thing is manageable!

Lastly, what NEVER to do: Do not hold the rifle a little bit away from the shoulder or even lightly in the shoulder. NEVER stand with your shoulder against a tree or wall to prevent being pushed back and then fire the rifle. A 500 NE will break your bones if you do this!

Shoot many light loads and few full loads for practice. Enjoy!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

S... with his .500 NE, 570 grains, at 2025 fps. Let me know what that won't stop, and, I'll use a
ENOUGH GUN?

Piece of cake. I loved this double...

Has anyone had stopping problems with the .500 NE, using this load? Do I need 600 grain barnes round nose, @ 2150 fps, instead?

If you watch the short movie of the Big Bore association shoot of 2008 that I filmed you will see me firing the 500 NE in the begguining of the movie the recoil was less than expected bur the gun fitted me well as well I suppose that was a big plus.

Big Bore Association AGM shoot 2008

If I had the money I would get a 500 NE anytime.

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Shoot the round regulated for your rifle all the time. The "reduced" loads and work up in a double is horseshit advice.

If you know double rifles, you will know that there is more than merely one choice that shoots to regulation. For instance the "75% Rule" loads will shoot to regulation, as will the regulation load. That is two, for starters.

JPK

I have a 458 Lott and a 470AR in the 8-9 lb range. My 500NE has significantly more recoil. It is not abusive but is manageble with proper technique.

I do not subscibe to the reduced load plan. I shoot my regulation load (with RL15) and that's it.

For me, I find that I must hold on tight and get a firm cheek weld. If not, I get whacked. You must focus on the task at hand and strive to make each shot a good one rather than just tossing rounds down range.

Just as important, for me anyway, is to develop a shooting rhythm. Mount the rifle, get a sight picture, shoot. The more time you take trying to get a better picture, the more chance you will start anticipating the recoil and start flinching.

The previous posters have given you a wealth of info based on their experiences. So,grasshopper, you must seek your own path.
Good luck and good shooting.

Gun fit is as important here as with any shotgun. Butch Searcy told me that if a double fits you correctly you don't even need sights you point and shoot like a shotgun. (We were discussing theory and emergencies i.e. you loose a front or rear sight) I completely believe that.

Felt recoil is also a product of gun fit good or bad as well as gun weight, as has been discussed. I have had and thouroughly shot two 470 doubles-Rigby and Searcy and two 500-3" doubles Merkel and Heym. In my opinion a true Dangerous Game Double Caliber starts with the 500 and goes up in caliber if you are talking about stopping at all.

It has been quoted on this site that the killing power is noticable as you go up in caliber and the 500 is an authority with properly placed shots. Not to say I haven't killed members of the big five with my favorite cartridge the 416 Rigby in my favorite bolt gun the Dakota 76 African.

A person will not remember the severity of the recoil or the recoil at all, in most cases, unless he has an ill fitting double. Shooting "full house loads" at the range will wear on you and even cause you to develope a flinch if you do not take precautions to avoid it.

The 470 class cartridges will put a real hurt on a buffalo but the 500 will crumple or send them looking for cover as best they can. However, as we discussed shot placement my Tanzania PH Paul Horsley told me the week after my wife and I hunted Masiland and killed two buffalo with two shots each with my 416 Rigby a gun brought a 577 and gut shot a 45" bull that got away. About 5 days later it was found in the park and after almost 10 days of negotiation with the game dept. they were able to go in and recover the skull and horns. Not something I'd be proud of.

As far as I'm concerned enjoy your 500 with range loads and make sure it is regulated with your hunting loads and shoot them occasionally and hunt what you want you will get hooked in a hurry!

Zig,

Sent you a pm...

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by 700 nitro:
lol ahahahahaha punch drunk after 15 rounds your kidding me...

i used to shoot 20-40 rounds in a session with my searcy 500 nitro

and 15-20 rounds with my 700 nitro

and now with my ryan breeding 505 gibbs shooting 600 grain bullets at 2250-2300
i regularly shoot 10-25 rounds depends how much time i have.

heck i accedently doubles a 577 nitro with wet hands with no ill effects at 1 of the drss shoots at camp coolie tx

Some folks have already done brain damage, and simply do not notice the effects after a while. Maybe that is why you don't notice the recoil of the 700NE, what cha thank?


Just kidding you 700 Nitro! One can normally get used to about any recoil if he simply puts his mind in the right place, and holds the rifle properly. The one thing one needs to do is, get off that bench, and go stump shooting, from hunting positions. The double rifle only regulates properly when shot off hand anyway, and the felt recoil will be far less when standing on your hind legs!

MacD37,

Here, Here, I totally agree with your suggestion to get OFF THE BENCH! To many people spend far to much time on the bench even with 270's, 30-06's, 7mm's, 300's etc. This not only makes you much more sensetive to the effects of recoil but does you no good in shooting when in actual hunting positions.

That's what we call it too, "stump shooting" take a walk in the cow pasture and shoot cow chip at an unknown distance a snap shot at a badger hole mound or a running ground squirrel or a rabbit. It's a heck of a lot of fun and that type of shooting actually serves you well when you hunt. We even carry a set of shooting sticks and practice a first shot off the sticks once in a while. But don't fall into the trap of using them all the time either.

You mentioned your Ryan Breeding loads; I found my "pleasure" curve peeks with a 600 grain bullet at 2350. That will wipe the grin off my face after a half dozen shots out of my Granite Mountain 505 Gibbs and I'm looking for something a bit smaller to shoot like a nice little 416 Rigby. The gun fits me perfectly but after three car wrecks-all when I was rearended, and 30 years on my frame since I started shooting big guns all take a toll. But how I still love it all.

Mac, I guess this is just the long way around saying I'm with you, right on and rock on!

They kick, trust me.

I have always been one that does not put a death grip on rifles. I had shots a 458 thousands of times. Never phased me. When I shot my first round with my Heym 500 NE, it whacked me so badly that it dislocated the middle finger in my trigger hand. My entire hand and forearm turned black. Needless to say, that scared the hell out of me.

Listen to what Mike (retreever) has to say about holding the gun. It makes a hell of a lot of difference.

I have a Searcy 500 double that kicks very little when shot standing up!Off the bench it is a bastard-of coarse!Fit is very important,I could not imagine how much of a difference it could make till I had my first custom rifle built.I have a modest 4 African Safaris under the belt but agree that the 500 class brings the weapon into a superior category as a stopping weapon goes.

I was interested by larryshores comment about his Heym 500. My Heym 500 has the most felt recoil of any double I have owned or shot and it, in my mind, has to be due to configuration of the gun. Personally I don't feel the quality of the new Heym's is up to the quality of the tradition of "Heym" but that's another subject.

How a rifle and the stock "fit" a shooter are critical. I have owned multiple doubles, including several .500s and three .470s. Without a doubt the one that whacked me the hardest was the Heym. There was simply something about the stock design that, for me, resulted in significantly more perceived recoil. I traded the rifle for another and moved on.

If you folks don't mind me asking, what do you think a good weight for a 500 NE is, assuming the stock is a good design and fits the shooter?

Regards,

Chuck

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
If you folks don't mind me asking, what do you think a good weight for a 500 NE is, assuming the stock is a good design and fits the shooter?

Regards,

Chuck

11.0 to 11.5 pounds!

Thanks Mac!

Chuck

It is certainly a matter of personal preference here as to how much weight you want to carry. I much prefer a muzzle heavy double; any gun actually. Thus, I have a forward balance point which helps me swing, get on target faster and helps also helps reduce felt recoil. My 500's are 11.5 to 12.75 lbs. Some say to heavy but I'm 6'3" #240 and they work great for me and I shoot them well at that weight. Fit is a matter of personal preference, one component of fit is weight. Most people will tell you a 500 class rifle-double or bolt-should be no less than 10 lbs to 12.5 on the heavy end. As general parameters this is a good range but if you are buying a double and it is on the light end and recoil does noticably effect you plan to have weight added, or my best suggestion is to look for another gun, as rebalancing a double is a matter of manufacture more than a bolt rifle.