This is sure to cause some disagrements!

I'll go first, I prefer bait:

I enjoyed the mental game of out-smarting the cat and causing him to make a mistake.

I was excited to check the baits in the am, see if they were hit, judge track size, and develope a game plan, etc.

The anticipation of seeing him in the tree, hearing the dassies and baboons go crazy when they see him.

Seeing a wild Leopard in the bait tree!

I don't want to run after a pack of dog's and take a rushed shot at a pissed-off cat.

In my opinion, the dog's hunted the cat, not you....you just made the shot.

I enjoyed the solitude of the blind and I do not want to hear a bunch of dog's yapping.

By the way...I'm NOT knocking a dog hunt, it's just not for me.

Well stated, I agree completely.

Kyler

Wolfgar: Great start to the debate. Hope to read everyone's true feelings. Have to follow in on this, since I posted on your other thread. I will hope to convey some reasons why I chose my path forward. The Boddington on Leopard video certainly shows some great footage of baiting successes.

First, I really want to hunt leopards, and have all my life, but also can't afford the time or money to make several unsuccessful trips before getting one. Some people may go 2 or 3 times or more; if you can, great! Just to say I hunted them is not wholely satisfying, tho, and I do want to get a good one. I am Average Joe working man; don't make a lot of money and this is taking more than two years of savings and vacation time, and lots of begging to get my wife to go along this time. It will be a family trip with wives and grand-daughter along, no matter what.

I love the practice of baiting, and do it for bears all the time - Spring or Fall. I have gotten it down to an art form and am very successful here for anyone I take out. Pretty much a slam dunk for success. I would not even consider running them with dogs. The leopard hunt will include all the baiting aspects I like, finding the right tree, getting them to hit, looking at spoor around it, and judging the animal, then turning out if it is a good one. A large percentage of hunters on baits don't have a clue what the PH is doing anyway, unless he explains the how and why of it, and are just content to sit in the camp chair in the blind reading a book, then the PH says "He's in the tree, and you shoot". I have the paitence of Job for certain things, and that would be all right, but I'd like better odds.

I only use predator calls for mountain lions, and hunt them with my muzzleloader once they follow the deer down to the winter ranges. Pretty nerve racking, but fun. They are actually quite timid, and running them in snow just doesn't interest me at all. Using a snow machine to get there without working sucks also. Don't find that of any interest at all either. A leopard is certainly no mountion lion, tho!

I've dislocated my foot and ankle, broke my leg in 3 places, had 5 knee surgeries, and dislocted the hip all on that one leg. I'm losing weight, working out, and will be in good enough shape to be responsible for whether or not I can keep up with the dogs. Walking in on a pissed off leopard at close range in the rocks, once bayed, is certainly more exciting and challenging to me, than shooting an unsuspecting cat in a tree, bopping a floating hippo, or shooting your ele at 60 yards or buff at 100. Everyone likes something different about the hunting experience, that's why its so great.

If I am successful, I'll try to write an entertaining story, add in some pics, and hope some of you read it. I'll certainly read yours.

BLANK --- you should have a PM about a CD.

Well I have done 3 bait hunts RSA, Namabia and Zim, now I am going to try the dog thing. I got my Mt Lion with dogs and it wasn't a walk in the park. I want my Leopard and I think the dog thing will help me to that end. You are still doing the baiting thing, but when a good fresh track is found in the morning you can then take off and try to see the cat and see if it is a good one, you don't half to kill it just because you have treed it. I will know better as to which one I prefer in 6 months.

Having done a lot of hunting with hounds in the past I think it would be an awesome experience to do the same with hound / leopard hunt.

Hounds hunt by scent, not sight, and there to me is something special about picking up a cold track and listing to the hounds sing as they figure the track out.

I feel like a total participant in these hunts, one with the pack, and will always enjoy them. They are far more challenging than any baited hunt. Baits are about you not being smelled, so there is some challenge but nothing like those challenges that terrain, weather and raw physical participation following a trained pack of hounds and the chosen quarry present.

Well, I agree with you about the bait in the tree, is very exciting, I will however defend the point of hunting with dogs is just another form of hunting. It is a adventure in itself too! To a point your right about the dogs do most of the work. The bait which is put out is to concentrate the leopard to your position too! The dogs just are a replacement for the bait.

For dog hunting alot of people enjoy the hounds barking and trailing the cat which can be heard from a good distance. The training of a good cat dog takes time and paitence, these dogs are bred for this type of work, and the dogs love it. They know when they get on the truck or turned loose what their job is and go for with and try to accomplish it. You still have to hunt to find a hot track to put the dogs on and the dogs are a tool which you use to help you. Sometime the cats win, not all cats are treed or cornered and sometimes we just have to bring the dogs back. The dog runners or trainers get attached to their dogs and some dogs loose in this exchange too! A good cat dog can run into the thousands.

It is the same for the people who listen to the sounds in the night of a good racoon dog barking and trailing until his quarry is treed, or a mountain lion, bear, and leopard. What about the beagle chasing rabbits in front of the gun is that not hunting! MAny of us enjoyed the outtings with our grandfathers beagles and many of us were brought into this wonderful sport of hunting running beagles for rabbits as kids and was are first exprience along with squirrel hunting.

When you come face to face with a angry mountain lion, bear, or lepoard it is thinking of one thing to kill these pest (dogs) including you if he gets the chance. Yes it is taking a shot in a tree is it no different then someone sitting in a blind and shooting it out of a tree too. The results are the same. It is just another form of huntng which has been going on for century's from the days when man and dogs became friends they had a common bond of hunting and friendship.

Dog hunting is a sport just different and people get a different type of enjoyment from it. It maybe working and listening to the dogs work. It maybe not your cup of tea but others like the taste. As for me I enjoy both types and look at it in different perspectives when doing each.

I have never hunted for leapord this way but have done my share of bear and mountain lion . I would consider a dog hun as well a baited hunt for leaopard if I ever get a chance.

Blank,
That was a great reply, and you sound like a great guy! I guess what it all boils down to is which type of hunt you like, the solitude of the blind or the excitment of a dog hunt.
Did you book your hunt yet? I'm a working man too, and I totally agree with you as I also had to kill one this trip, because who knows when I will be back.
338,
Great post too, and I enjoyed hearing your comments.

I've done two baited hunts, and agree the time in the blind is to be savored. Mornings, evenings, the sounds of the bush are wonderful. Those that think blind-hunting leopards is "boring" are really missing out IMHO. I would like to try leopard with dogs, but likely never will.

That said, and with due respect, your other post was in regards to wanting a "180lb leopard". If you are really not into hunting with the dogs, don't let anybody talk you into it, but recognize that you may need to compromise on your trophy expectations in consideration of the [your] experience. Or plan on multiple leopard hunts, which is okay too. We all make these decisions when deciding where to hunt, whether we realize it or not.

Regards, Bill

Hello Bill,
Just read your post. I'm not planning another trip yet, but posted this to hear about diffrent areas. The PH I used this year also said that those big ones are rare, and most cats are 110-130lbs. They are out there, but smart, probably shot at, trapped etc...
Next time I go back, I will still use the same PH, but hold out for a big one, and if I don't see him, I'll go home without it...I did get my cat this year which I am very thankful for, so I will just go back to hunt and hopefully get a monster.

I suppose I'm one of the lucky ones. On my first trip to Zimbabwe I booked a package hunt that included Leopard. It was from a blind and it was successful. I have also killed one Leopard over dogs in Zimbabwe and have been on numerous hunts with dogs in Zim since the days when it was experimental. I find it hard to keep up with the dogs and would never choose it as my preferred method of hunting Leopard but that is because of MY physical condition not because of the method of hunting. I actually prefer the blind method and to me the excitement of laying there in the dark waiting for the Leopard to come is more appealing than following the hounds. I have also hunted Lion over bait and while it was not successful on any occaison once we found the next day after sitting in the blind for hours that the Lion had been sitting behind the blind (which had no back,DUMB DUMB) watching us. Definitely makes the hair rise on the back of the neck. They are two totally different methods appealing to a different set of emotions in each person and would again depend on what YOU as the hunter want from the experience. To me sitting in a double blind and waiting for the cat to come and then creeping up barefoot to the shooting blind in total darkness with the attendent snakes and baddies all round is the height of suspense and I would always choose that method,but I know others prefer the dogs with the same fervor. To each his own way.

I have done a couple of blind hunts and if the one PH is correct it wasn't as exciting as one would think because he said I snored. I have heard of other hunters and PHs saying the same about hunters and sometimes PHs if they tell the truth. I guess that is one of the reasons I am trying the dogs in April.

Wolfgar,

Each to his own but out smarting the leopard and having him come to the bait in daylight is what makes leopard hunting exciting for me. Listening to the forest, hearing the babboons etc. go crazy as the leopard approaches, the eerie silence just before he gets in the tree is what leopard hunting is supposed to be about in my mind.

Some people have the impression that this type of leopard hunt is often unsuccessful but conducted in a good leopard area it can offer 90% or better rate of success. When this hunt is in a marginal leopard area or an area where the the leopards have been hunted very hard it can be a crap shoot.

Dog hunts are not 100% successful nor do they always produce a huge leopard. The leopard just simply sometimes escapes.

The 4 types of leopard hunts we offer are tracking with Bushmen, tracking with Bushmen and dogs, bait at night and bait in daylight only. Each hunt has its own appeal and I'd like to try them all but the bait in daylight would always be my first choice.

Mark

well i really prefer to don my loin cloth and run them until their kinda tired out then just wrestle them to death

Butch,

The first part of your post is providing me with a mental picture I don't need.

Mark

having spent many cold nights in blinds on 2 different hunts in Zim. i was ready for a change. bought a donated hunt at the SCI convention in 2005 in Botswana using dogs and Bushman trackers. bottom line, this was the most exciting hunt of 5 different African safaris. after the dogs and trackers bayed the tom up in thick blackthorn, i started in and the leopard immediately spotted me and charged. i dropped him at 10' with a load of buchshot to the chest and then shook like a leaf in a whirlwind for 20 minutes!!! it just get anymore exciting than that and it sure beat the hours of endless waiting and freezing in a blind. jerry

Nothing like being in the blind when the cat jumps into the tree! I've killed one leopard over bait and one cougar with dogs. I have no problem with the dogs, but the bait seems to be more interesting.

I've hunted them both ways. Two unsuccessful hunts with baits, and one successful hunt with dogs. I've also done mountain lion hunts in the US with dogs. They are very different hunts, but both are exciting for different reasons. With a little luck, I'm going back to hunt over baits this year. I'd really like to see one climb into a tree.

I haven't hunted leopard with dogs, but would love to do so. I used to run coons, bobcats, and coyotes with dogs, and it was a great hunt; I think running a leopard would be very exciting.

There is an excellent account of Craig Boddingtons hunt with dogs in this months Sports Afield.It also has a good buffalo safari article and an article on renown PH Tony Sanches-Arino.

what breed of dogs are used to run Lepords ???

Tristian got his pack from Wade Lemon who runs mt lion and black bear with his dogs in the SW US...check his web-site. Tristan also has a couple of Jack Russell's they turn loose when the leopard comes to bay .... they seem to really distract the leopard.

I was just watching his promo video and shows Dick and Mary Cabela taking 3 hugh leopards and includes two sequences with bow hunters...pretty intense. The 1st bow hunter puts an arrow in at about 10 yards and after the leopard realizes he's been shot he turns and charges (the noise he makes is 'interesting) and Tristian who has stepped in front of the client hammers him with one shot from his SxS 9.3x74R --- leopard crumbles at the shot and rolls within a few feet of Tristian and the client.

Wade Lemon is from Utah and runs dogs for mountain lion and black bear in both Utah and Nevada. I have met and talked with Wade; most recently a couple of months ago. He has a lot of his dogs all over the western US and across the pond. I have one friend here who is a fanatic hound man and cat hunter and it seems that dogs get sold and traded back and forth all of the time. He has had some of Wade's dogs himself. By the way, I grew up with relatives hunting cats with the dogs and I will hunt leopard that way without question. They always kept a big tom (cougar) caged to train their dogs with. It is not a cake walk as pointed out above and downright dangerous. I have even seen many years ago horse riders rope cats (cougars) out of trees for more excitement than shooting them and then trying to get the lariat off and let the cat go. Try that one on. Craig Boddington's articles in Sports Afield and in SCI's publications point out that dog hunting most likely occurred long before bait hunting, and that bait hunting was a more recent innovation. However, each to his own and in his own right.

By the way, a very Merry Christmas to all of you on this thread and God Bless. We are all indeed blessed and fortunate to be allowed to hunt and dream of hunting and share this world wide community on line.
Now, Blank
I would love to hunt leopard in just about any fashion and there is no right or wrong answer to this question or technique. I am really REALLY curious about your own experiences with predator calling for mountain lion. I would like very much to do this and have practiced some along the deer winter ranges at the base of the Beartooth Mountains west of town. I haven't had any success to date. Any and all advice you would care to pass along I'd soak up like a sponge. I have killed on lion about 25 years ago in self defence and I have been on all of one hunt with running dogs. It wasn't all that exciting to me and we left the cat to his own business up in the ponderosa pine. I would much prefer to outwit them with a predator call. There is only the vaguest information out there in the literature or on cyberspace that details this hunting style. Here recently I found a story that states mountain lions are much more easily called (if they're in the neighborhood) with lion vocalizations as it offends their territorial boundaries. Nevertheless, any pointers with a predator call would be much apprectiated.
I'm sure that several of guys are aware that African lions have also been called to the gun through the years. There was video on recently with Elgin Gates ? doing the trick back in the late 50's or early 60's.
Lots of cats in Montana, I can tell you that, and close to town here too.

quote:

Originally posted by DB Bill:
Tristian got his pack from Wade Lemon who runs mt lion and black bear with his dogs in the SW US...check his web-site. Tristan also has a couple of Jack Russell's they turn loose when the leopard comes to bay .... they seem to really distract the leopard.

I was just watching his promo video and shows Dick and Mary Cabela taking 3 hugh leopards and includes two sequences with bow hunters...pretty intense. The 1st bow hunter puts an arrow in at about 10 yards and after the leopard realizes he's been shot he turns and charges (the noise he makes is 'interesting) and Tristian who has stepped in front of the client hammers him with one shot from his SxS 9.3x74R --- leopard crumbles at the shot and rolls within a few feet of Tristian and the client.

What is the name of that video and where can it be purchased??

If you are a hound man and have spent time hunting foxes, coyotes or coons with hounds and like the music of trail hounds, I'm sure you'd like hunting with dogs. If not, you'll like a blind hunt better. Personally I have a sneaking suspicion a blind hunt can be really boring at times, but would love to have a chance to do either or both. Me, I think the hound hunt, coming upon the leopard cornered and a pack of hounds barking treed sounds like an exciting way to take one, but some people just don't get interested in hound hunting.