quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
I finally read the piece by Mahoney. I feel sorry about my comments regarding his portrayal on TAA (no offense to the Safari Classics team). It is a well written piece. I think I will revisit his other articles.

I don't plan to reread this thread, but might. Some fellas I respect on this forum have made comments I'd like to review. I know a few of those I respect, but may have not met, are also friends, yet have opposing opinions. It still bothers me about the Dr. Palmer situation, but he has been cleared on Cecil.

There might be a reason why he's now a bow hunter (felony conviction, but possibly a misdemeanor reduction), but it would require reading AR drivel over the past few pages. Yes, I should have read that before this post. However, Aaron has been convicted of a game violation in his early days. He has owned up to it and said so (Aaron, I'm not trying to throw you under the bus at all). I believe Aaron is a stand up guy. I only know him here and Facebook. I haven't had the pleasure of meeting him at the shows. I hope too one day. In fact, he scribed a very intelligent post regarding the hell his girlfriend was getting. I'd share a link, but it's late.

In the end, I think Dr. Palmer got screwed. He was the "proper American hunter" with a title that shot a cat with a name that relatively no one knew about prior. I'm not one to really trust news out of Africa, BBC, etc.! I believe I was one of many to say the same as the story broke.

In closing, I do think the man from the shadows said it well.

"Finally, we need to think very clearly about what we are going to say concerning two critical issues. Why is hunting relevant in our modern world, and do hunters really care about about the wildlife we pursue? Either we will answer these questions, or someone else will - an echo, surely, of Cecil's roar." (sic)

- Shane Mahoney

Why did you feel it necessary to throw Aaron under the bus?

Jeff

+1 Bwana. With friends like that....

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
I finally read the piece by Mahoney. I feel sorry about my comments regarding his portrayal on TAA (no offense to the Safari Classics team). It is a well written piece. I think I will revisit his other articles.

I don't plan to reread this thread, but might. Some fellas I respect on this forum have made comments I'd like to review. I know a few of those I respect, but may have not met, are also friends, yet have opposing opinions. It still bothers me about the Dr. Palmer situation, but he has been cleared on Cecil.

There might be a reason why he's now a bow hunter (felony conviction, but possibly a misdemeanor reduction), but it would require reading AR drivel over the past few pages. Yes, I should have read that before this post. However, Aaron has been convicted of a game violation in his early days. He has owned up to it and said so (Aaron, I'm not trying to throw you under the bus at all). I believe Aaron is a stand up guy. I only know him here and Facebook. I haven't had the pleasure of meeting him at the shows. I hope too one day. In fact, he scribed a very intelligent post regarding the hell his girlfriend was getting. I'd share a link, but it's late.

In the end, I think Dr. Palmer got screwed. He was the "proper American hunter" with a title that shot a cat with a name that relatively no one knew about prior. I'm not one to really trust news out of Africa, BBC, etc.! I believe I was one of many to say the same as the story broke.

In closing, I do think the man from the shadows said it well.

"Finally, we need to think very clearly about what we are going to say concerning two critical issues. Why is hunting relevant in our modern world, and do hunters really care about about the wildlife we pursue? Either we will answer these questions, or someone else will - an echo, surely, of Cecil's roar." (sic)

- Shane Mahoney

Why did you feel it necessary to throw Aaron under the bus?

Jeff

I had tried to make it clear that was not my intent. Was that not clear? It has been mentioned many times here, and Aaron has explained the situation to the extent he has likely worn out his fingers.

If I have offended him, I do apologize. I think Aaron is a great champion of our sport. I will address it with him on a different channel.

Why throw Aaron under the bus? It's what some do instead of standing together on our hunting issues. Maybe it helps those who do so to somehow gloss over their own imperfections? Just saying.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
R8 Blaser

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
I finally read the piece by Mahoney. I feel sorry about my comments regarding his portrayal on TAA (no offense to the Safari Classics team). It is a well written piece. I think I will revisit his other articles.

I don't plan to reread this thread, but might. Some fellas I respect on this forum have made comments I'd like to review. I know a few of those I respect, but may have not met, are also friends, yet have opposing opinions. It still bothers me about the Dr. Palmer situation, but he has been cleared on Cecil.

There might be a reason why he's now a bow hunter (felony conviction, but possibly a misdemeanor reduction), but it would require reading AR drivel over the past few pages. Yes, I should have read that before this post. However, Aaron has been convicted of a game violation in his early days. He has owned up to it and said so (Aaron, I'm not trying to throw you under the bus at all). I believe Aaron is a stand up guy. I only know him here and Facebook. I haven't had the pleasure of meeting him at the shows. I hope too one day. In fact, he scribed a very intelligent post regarding the hell his girlfriend was getting. I'd share a link, but it's late.

In the end, I think Dr. Palmer got screwed. He was the "proper American hunter" with a title that shot a cat with a name that relatively no one knew about prior. I'm not one to really trust news out of Africa, BBC, etc.! I believe I was one of many to say the same as the story broke.

In closing, I do think the man from the shadows said it well.

"Finally, we need to think very clearly about what we are going to say concerning two critical issues. Why is hunting relevant in our modern world, and do hunters really care about about the wildlife we pursue? Either we will answer these questions, or someone else will - an echo, surely, of Cecil's roar." (sic)

- Shane Mahoney

Why did you feel it necessary to throw Aaron under the bus?

Jeff

Mike you and Abe huh? Didn't realize you and he were best buds??? Some comparison I might add.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
R8 Blaser

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:

quote:

Originally posted by CharlesL:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
To repeat . . . for those a little slow on the uptake . . .

I may be a little slow on the uptake, but the reality is some people talk too damn much so I tune them out.

And just because it is repeated over and over and over and over doesn't make it right.

I am quite happy where I stand on this issue. As Abraham Lincoln said, be sure to put your feet in the right place, then stand firm.

Thanks. I agree, it is pretty much spot on.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Thanks. I agree, it is pretty much spot on.

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Why throw Aaron under the bus? It's what some do instead of standing together on our hunting issues. Maybe it helps those who do so to somehow gloss over their own imperfections? Just saying.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
R8 Blaser

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
I finally read the piece by Mahoney. I feel sorry about my comments regarding his portrayal on TAA (no offense to the Safari Classics team). It is a well written piece. I think I will revisit his other articles.

I don't plan to reread this thread, but might. Some fellas I respect on this forum have made comments I'd like to review. I know a few of those I respect, but may have not met, are also friends, yet have opposing opinions. It still bothers me about the Dr. Palmer situation, but he has been cleared on Cecil.

There might be a reason why he's now a bow hunter (felony conviction, but possibly a misdemeanor reduction), but it would require reading AR drivel over the past few pages. Yes, I should have read that before this post. However, Aaron has been convicted of a game violation in his early days. He has owned up to it and said so (Aaron, I'm not trying to throw you under the bus at all). I believe Aaron is a stand up guy. I only know him here and Facebook. I haven't had the pleasure of meeting him at the shows. I hope too one day. In fact, he scribed a very intelligent post regarding the hell his girlfriend was getting. I'd share a link, but it's late.

In the end, I think Dr. Palmer got screwed. He was the "proper American hunter" with a title that shot a cat with a name that relatively no one knew about prior. I'm not one to really trust news out of Africa, BBC, etc.! I believe I was one of many to say the same as the story broke.

In closing, I do think the man from the shadows said it well.

"Finally, we need to think very clearly about what we are going to say concerning two critical issues. Why is hunting relevant in our modern world, and do hunters really care about about the wildlife we pursue? Either we will answer these questions, or someone else will - an echo, surely, of Cecil's roar." (sic)

- Shane Mahoney

Why did you feel it necessary to throw Aaron under the bus?

Jeff

Larry,

I was not trying to throw Aaron under the bus at all. I respect him and what he does. I was merely pointing out the dichotomy. I apologized to Aaron and offered to delete my comment. My post has since been memorialized. I tried to make it clear that I was not attacking Aaron. I just thought it strange that Palmer was convicted by the Internet by having a prior violation. My brother was cited, and convicted, of shooting bullfrogs without a license. Where do we draw the line?

I was, in no way, trying to shame Aaron.

Hell, I respect Mike Jines and his opinions, but he said Palmer was likely guilty (or there abouts) from the beginning due to the prior conviction. Maybe Mike had forgotten some of the things he learned in law school.

I suppose I put things the wrong way. Larry, in fact, I was not trying to attack or put Aaron down, but pointing out what is glaring; the judgment of others with different values.

I wish I could be as smooth as KPete with my words. Speaking of, has he also been run off?

I suppose I'll be put on the asshole list now by trying to point out the discrepancies.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Why throw Aaron under the bus? It's what some do instead of standing together on our hunting issues. Maybe it helps those who do so to somehow gloss over their own imperfections? Just saying.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
R8 Blaser

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
I finally read the piece by Mahoney. I feel sorry about my comments regarding his portrayal on TAA (no offense to the Safari Classics team). It is a well written piece. I think I will revisit his other articles.

I don't plan to reread this thread, but might. Some fellas I respect on this forum have made comments I'd like to review. I know a few of those I respect, but may have not met, are also friends, yet have opposing opinions. It still bothers me about the Dr. Palmer situation, but he has been cleared on Cecil.

There might be a reason why he's now a bow hunter (felony conviction, but possibly a misdemeanor reduction), but it would require reading AR drivel over the past few pages. Yes, I should have read that before this post. However, Aaron has been convicted of a game violation in his early days. He has owned up to it and said so (Aaron, I'm not trying to throw you under the bus at all). I believe Aaron is a stand up guy. I only know him here and Facebook. I haven't had the pleasure of meeting him at the shows. I hope too one day. In fact, he scribed a very intelligent post regarding the hell his girlfriend was getting. I'd share a link, but it's late.

In the end, I think Dr. Palmer got screwed. He was the "proper American hunter" with a title that shot a cat with a name that relatively no one knew about prior. I'm not one to really trust news out of Africa, BBC, etc.! I believe I was one of many to say the same as the story broke.

In closing, I do think the man from the shadows said it well.

"Finally, we need to think very clearly about what we are going to say concerning two critical issues. Why is hunting relevant in our modern world, and do hunters really care about about the wildlife we pursue? Either we will answer these questions, or someone else will - an echo, surely, of Cecil's roar." (sic)

- Shane Mahoney

Why did you feel it necessary to throw Aaron under the bus?

Jeff

Larry,

I was not trying to throw Aaron under the bus at all. I respect him and what he does. I was merely pointing out the dichotomy. I apologized to Aaron and offered to delete my comment. My post has since been memorialized. I tried to make it clear that I was not attacking Aaron. I just thought it strange that Palmer was convicted by the Internet by having a prior violation. My brother was cited, and convicted, of shooting bullfrogs without a license. Where do we draw the line?

I was, in no way, trying to shame Aaron.

Hell, I respect Mike Jines and his opinions, but he said Palmer was likely guilty (or there abouts) from the beginning due to the prior conviction. Maybe Mike had forgotten some of the things he learned in law school.

I suppose I put things the wrong way. Larry, in fact, I was not trying to attack or put Aaron down, but pointing out what is glaring; the judgment of others with different values.

I wish I could be as smooth as KPete with my words. Speaking of, has he also been run off?

I suppose I'll be put on the asshole list now by trying to point out the discrepancies.

There are definitely reading comprehension issues, intentionally or unintentionally, among some on AR. I never said Palmer was guilty . . . in this most recent incident (he certainly was in the prior incident). I have said I will not give him the benefit of the doubt given his prior record. I have said I question his view of proper hunting ethics. I have said I do not view him as a role model or good representative for hunters and hope that younger hunters will not emulate him. I have said I think SCI was not only right in suspending him but should have revoked his membership after his felony plea for lying to game authorities. I have said give him his day in court but his prior conduct coupled with his ethical decisions in this instance make him someone I do not care to be aligned with. That is what I have said . . . and now said again.

If you happen to feel Palmer got a raw deal, that hunters should stand with Palmer, that SCI should have stood shoulder to shoulder with Palmer, that Palmer's conduct is defensible or excusable, that his prior hunting and fishing law violations are irrelevant, that so long as what Palmer did was legal that settles the issue, I might suggest you consider whether you are part of the problem and not part of the solution to saving hunting long term.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Why throw Aaron under the bus? It's what some do instead of standing together on our hunting issues. Maybe it helps those who do so to somehow gloss over their own imperfections? Just saying.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
R8 Blaser

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
I finally read the piece by Mahoney. I feel sorry about my comments regarding his portrayal on TAA (no offense to the Safari Classics team). It is a well written piece. I think I will revisit his other articles.

I don't plan to reread this thread, but might. Some fellas I respect on this forum have made comments I'd like to review. I know a few of those I respect, but may have not met, are also friends, yet have opposing opinions. It still bothers me about the Dr. Palmer situation, but he has been cleared on Cecil.

There might be a reason why he's now a bow hunter (felony conviction, but possibly a misdemeanor reduction), but it would require reading AR drivel over the past few pages. Yes, I should have read that before this post. However, Aaron has been convicted of a game violation in his early days. He has owned up to it and said so (Aaron, I'm not trying to throw you under the bus at all). I believe Aaron is a stand up guy. I only know him here and Facebook. I haven't had the pleasure of meeting him at the shows. I hope too one day. In fact, he scribed a very intelligent post regarding the hell his girlfriend was getting. I'd share a link, but it's late.

In the end, I think Dr. Palmer got screwed. He was the "proper American hunter" with a title that shot a cat with a name that relatively no one knew about prior. I'm not one to really trust news out of Africa, BBC, etc.! I believe I was one of many to say the same as the story broke.

In closing, I do think the man from the shadows said it well.

"Finally, we need to think very clearly about what we are going to say concerning two critical issues. Why is hunting relevant in our modern world, and do hunters really care about about the wildlife we pursue? Either we will answer these questions, or someone else will - an echo, surely, of Cecil's roar." (sic)

- Shane Mahoney

Why did you feel it necessary to throw Aaron under the bus?

Jeff

Larry,

I was not trying to throw Aaron under the bus at all. I respect him and what he does. I was merely pointing out the dichotomy. I apologized to Aaron and offered to delete my comment. My post has since been memorialized. I tried to make it clear that I was not attacking Aaron. I just thought it strange that Palmer was convicted by the Internet by having a prior violation. My brother was cited, and convicted, of shooting bullfrogs without a license. Where do we draw the line?

I was, in no way, trying to shame Aaron.

Hell, I respect Mike Jines and his opinions, but he said Palmer was likely guilty (or there abouts) from the beginning due to the prior conviction. Maybe Mike had forgotten some of the things he learned in law school.

I suppose I put things the wrong way. Larry, in fact, I was not trying to attack or put Aaron down, but pointing out what is glaring; the judgment of others with different values.

I wish I could be as smooth as KPete with my words. Speaking of, has he also been run off?

I suppose I'll be put on the asshole list now by trying to point out the discrepancies.

There are definitely reading comprehension issues, intentionally or unintentionally, among some on AR. I never said Palmer was guilty . . . in this most recent incident (he certainly was in the prior incident). I have said I will not give him the benefit of the doubt given his prior record. I have said I question his view of proper hunting ethics. I have said I do not view him as a role model or good representative for hunters and hope that younger hunters will not emulate him. I have said I think SCI was not only right in suspending him but should have revoked his membership after his felony plea for lying to game authorities. I have said give him his day in court but his prior conduct coupled with his ethical decisions in this instance make him someone I do not care to be aligned with. That is what I have said . . . and now said again.

If you happen to feel Palmer got a raw deal, that hunters should stand with Palmer, that SCI should have stood shoulder to shoulder with Palmer, that Palmer's conduct is defensible or excusable, that his prior hunting and fishing law violations are irrelevant, that so long as what Palmer did was legal that settles the issue, I might suggest you consider whether you are part of the problem and not part of the solution to saving hunting long term.

You are correct, there are some reading comprehension issues here on AR. As stated, I don't read through all the AR drivel as I would pleadings. I apologize for saying you thought he was "guilty (or there abouts)". However, I never said I was one to stand next to him in our fight for our rights. I don't want to hang our rights on Dr. Palmer, Nugent, or the others. I don't think they are good representatives of our sport. I do feel sorry Dr. Palmer lost his business due to the kneejerk reaction of the anti-hunting faction. My issue is that he was judged guilty by the Zim and Anti crowd/media, and some here, before any facts were discovered. I had posted about there being more to the story and let's what to see what shakes out.

I never said I stood shoulder to shoulder with Dr. Palmer, or that we, as hunters, should. If you recall, the Rules of Evidence, take a look at Rule 404(b). It is not relevant in the internet court, but please think about the all the outrage at the initial kill of "Cecil," but where do you find the retractions? Yes, they are on the back page, if at all.

What about the next hunter who gets caught in Zim with what he thought was a legal trophy? Some may think I have been posting as an antagonist here, but I'm merely trying to point out the differences. Palmer had been convicted of a prior charge (I still, as stated previously, question his DDS license or whether he could own firearms), but this was a bowhunt.

No, he is not an ideal "hero" for the hunting community. I had clients who were not "perfect" to protect the deer breeders in the state. I still fought the AG in Austin as a wet behind the ears lawyer and lost, but I didn't want to lose any rights for all of us, regardless of ideals.

Hell, I just became more of an asshole on the forum for defending deer breeder rights. Thanks to those that saved the "Three Amigos."

Marcus Cady

If you are adamant hunting is not closing down in Africa , I suggest you look at the SCI Safari Magazine publication 2001 -2010 , then look at 2011 to this last edition - count the number of BIG GAME adverts and articles , then look at the donations - these two aspects generaly are a reflection of the status of hunting and confidence index. The single biggest indicator of the status of big game hunting in Africa is the SCI donation program -
The October issue does not reflect one big game donation , and you will have to look realy hard to find any eye catching adds. Even if we deduct the reason that SCI is failing the hunting industry outside of North America , and exhibitors are tired of their treatment at the hands of the " inner circle of back slappers ", the confidence is at an all time low.

The cause of this is the strangle hold that africa is getting from politicians and the economic ripple affect of the anti hunter pressure groups.

The only 2 countries that will survive the next decade is Namibia and South Africa as hunting is now on private land. In the future free range DG will also be hunted , but it will never replace east africa and the other wild countries.

Cecil , Blood Lions , Malapati Elephant are the three nails in the coffin , our lack of ability to clean up , present a clean image , acknowledge all is not right in the industry , lack of cohesion , fragmented effort , SCI and DSC lack of vision are the coffin bearers - the anti hunters are waiting for the church bell to put us in the ground .

quote:

Originally posted by Safaris Botswana Bound:
If you are adamant hunting is not closing down in Africa , I suggest you look at the SCI Safari Magazine publication 2001 -2010 , then look at 2011 to this last edition - count the number of BIG GAME adverts and articles , then look at the donations - these two aspects generaly are a reflection of the status of hunting and confidence index. The single biggest indicator of the status of big game hunting in Africa is the SCI donation program -
The October issue does not reflect one big game donation , and you will have to look realy hard to find any eye catching adds. Even if we deduct the reason that SCI is failing the hunting industry outside of North America , and exhibitors are tired of their treatment at the hands of the " inner circle of back slappers ", the confidence is at an all time low.

The cause of this is the strangle hold that africa is getting from politicians and the economic ripple affect of the anti hunter pressure groups.

The only 2 countries that will survive the next decade is Namibia and South Africa as hunting is now on private land. In the future free range DG will also be hunted , but it will never replace east africa and the other wild countries.

Cecil , Blood Lions , Malapati Elephant are the three nails in the coffin , our lack of ability to clean up , present a clean image , acknowledge all is not right in the industry , lack of cohesion , fragmented effort , SCI and DSC lack of vision are the coffin bearers - the anti hunters are waiting for the church bell to put us in the ground .