JudgeG and I returned yesterday (Saturday). I had a great trip, took eight animals including a buffalo. Ray Atkinson and Pierr'e Van Tonder are the greatest. Even though we did encounter problems they were handled well. I am currently editing my pictures and will post them as soon as I can. This was my first trip to Africa and it was worth the money, the effort, the long flight, and all else it took to put it together. I learned the following:

1. TuffPaks are wonderful.

2. Swift A-Frames are wonderful also.

3. So are Winchester Fail-Safes.

4. Africa is cold as hell in the morning.

5. Anyone who books a hunt in Zimbabwe is taking a large risk. More about this later, as I am sure that JudgeG will elaborate.

I learned a lot more also, and will share it in a full report when I get my pics posted. It is good to be home, but I miss Africa already.

The suspense is killing me! Hurry up with the pictures and stories.



I am glad you and Ernest made it back safely.

1115,

Glad to hear that you got a buffalo!!!

Looking forward to the pics and story. I hear that someone stole the video camera . Hope you got plenty of stills.

Welcome home, and welcome to post-safari depression syndrome .

Jim

Yes, I a, anxious for you to elaborate on the Zimbabwe situation. I have a considerable sum tied up for my next safari. jorge

Welcome home, I hated the hiccups but things happen that are sometimes not in our control...and we'll make it up to you...

As I am leaving for Zim in 3 weeks, I too would like to hear about any problems...



450D

Ray,

Believe me when I say that there is nothing that needs to be made up. Zim has its risks, and that is part of hunting there. I had a great trip. Pierr'e did everything he could to make it a success. Here is my take on what happened. The local natives control the concession. They wanted a cow taken, but allowed me to take a bull. It became obvious after I got my bull, that the head tracker was intentionally leading us away from the herd, and was making no effort to get a bull for JudgeG. Pierr'e saw this, and after two days of riding around in the cold with no success we were told that another bull could not be taken there, and we had to go elsewhere in the area. At this point Pierr'e called a halt to the hunt and we left. JudgeG was refunded for the hunt and all was handled as well as possible. When we got to Vic Falls, we were told that this is a common scam that is being run on hunters. Unfortunately not everyone has a PH as competent as Pierr'e and they go on hunting after maybe one or two bulls are taken when a group hunt takes place, and leave Zim believing that they just had "bad luck". Poaching is rampant, and the locals would rather kill the buffs and sell the meat, than wait for their share of a trophy fee that never comes from the government. No one can control that sort of thing in a country run my someone like Mugabe. I have already booked with Pierr'e for next year, and at the present have no intention of ever hunting with anyone else. My only dissapointment was seeinf the frustration that my good friend went through. He was kind enough to insist that I have the first opportunity to take a buffalo, since I had never done so before. Thank you for a great trip.

Congrats on you hunt sounds like you had fun.

All Outfitters and PHs are GREAT when things go smoothly(as in any businees) The true benchmark is how a Outfitter, PH react when things go south.

It sounds like they stood up & got it done.

AAaahh! Who-da thunk it!... What area did you hunt. As I too am entering through Vic. I am concerned about the area and problems you encountered.. Thanks......450Dakota

Sorry to hear about the Judge's bad luck. It is good to hear you got your buffalo. Hopefully Mugabe will meat his end soon, he should have been thinned from the herd a long time ago.

Sevens

1115, Ray-I don't understand why they would direct them away from a buff. What is the upside for them? Thanks, Bob Butler.

Most interestingly, while visiting a small hunting ranch in Limpopo Province, I had supper last Thursday with a P.H. from South Africa who thought he had bought the exclusive rights to the buffalo licenses in the particular Zimbabwe block(s) in which 1115 and I hunted. He was quite amazed and alarmed that we had hunted on "his" concession. He is an experienced P.H., fluent in the languages of the area and he got duped, too.



I must be clear that I do not believe this was the fault of the safari company, the P.H. that I had (Chris Walker), the "visiting" P.H. with us, Pierre van Tonder (who refunded my money cent for cent) or the booking agent. The scam is on the local level, apparently. The best plans were made and contracts were signed. Pierre even drove 1700 k's to check out everything. Welcome to Zimbabwe, I guess. Can't say that Ray didn't warn me, can I?



The "upside" (for the crooks, that is) is that the local thug "landowners" are getting full payment for multiple hunters when they only have limited licenses. I know that for a fact now that I've found the "other" licensee of the block.... and what were the chances of meeting him some 1000 K's away in another country????



But I got my money back, so I can't complain too much.



Next year... the Selous with Pierr'e. Been there, done that... It worked. "..nuff said".



For you folks going to Zim... I'd still go, but I'd make sure my trip insurance covered such a thing, if possible. I'd also be pretty darn clear that my booking agent and P.H. were solvent enough to be able to do what mine did (and without my asking)... just sit down and write out a check back to me for my whole safari. You can't ask for more than that. Ray and Pierr'e are the best!

Ern,
Haaa, just wait until you line up your sights on that 80 pound elephant you saw last year, and Pierre whispers in your ear, "Ray went up on trophy fees $10,000 last night!!
shoot quick, before he gets away"

Could the problems on this hunt have been avoided by hunting with a reputable local ZIM safari company rather than using a visiting PH from TANZ? This question is not intended as a criticism of Pierre, but someone who hunts ZIM 270 days per year and has an established reputation would not likely run into the same thing, or at least is what I am telling myself.

The hunt was set up with a safari company that is very well established in Zimbabwe. (I'll release its name privately, if one wishes). Pierr'e was really just going along as a friend as much as a P.H. We had the full-time service of a native-born resident of Zim P.H., too.... with 25 years of experience. Chris Walker is his name. A good man, I believe. He got screwed, too, I'm sure.



I'm not a cop... 1115 is...



1115 figured out who was doing what to whom immediately.. and Pierre and I discovered why 1115 is a homicide dectective extrodinaire'. He has a 6th sense about this kind of stuff. We just confirmed the fraud (and 1115's intuition) later when we met the S.A. fellow who confirmed everything.



There is no way to protect against such a thing unless you have a good court system.. and Zim surely doesn't. The safari company has promised a full refund to Pierre/Ray (who have already re-imbursed me). I honestly believe that they will come through. I met the owner and he seems to be an honorable man (solvent, too), albeit, in an unhonorable land. As I said, the fraud is on the local level, not from Bulawayo.



Hey.. it ain't all bad. Zim ain't crowded, for sure!



1115 and I had the Victoria Falls Hotel (not to mention the whole Falls the next morning)practically to ourselves. What a hotel and what a wonderful place for dinner. No one there but us and three other tables with just a few folks each. Forty folks just standing around to serve you.



When we went to see the falls, we saw two Chinese ladies... and that was it!



Damn, can Mugabe screw up a country!



500Nitro... I don't think this would have happened on "Government" concessions. You kind of know whose palm has been greased, there. This was just a local "big shot" selling what he doesn't have to multiple, unknowing buyers.



Heck, it was 1115's trip anyway and he got his buff..



And as Lars said, "What's time to a pig?"

Judge

Sorry to hear of the stuff-ups.

I don't understand in your post, how can a South African outfitter own concession rights in Zimbabwe?

I thought only Zimbabwean registered outfitters and PHs could operate in the country?

Maybe I wasn't quite accurate or clear as to whom I was referring.



I'm, of course, not speaking of Pierre. When I was writing about the fellow I had supper with in RSA, I was talking about someone other than van Tonder. Pierre doesn't hold himself out to be a Zim P.H. I was refering to a guy named "Mons"??? I don't remember his last name.



His company (or the company for which he hunts)(which probably is a Zim company.. I don't even know the name).. through a partner or corporation or strawman... hell.. maybe through a bribe... "bought" the hunting rights/licenses for the concession from the new landowners... or so he thought. The land was "owned" by a communal group who seized it.. apparently relatively recently. The whole thing is a mess.



I, too, thought all Zim P.H.'s had to be Zim residents, (and I think that's the law) but a couple that I know who hunt there have RSA passports. I guess someone looks the other way. I even saw one listed on the Nitro Forum who I KNOW has an RSA passport and not one from Zim... who knows?

I'm sorry for your troubles.

Zimbabwe is not a place I would plan to visit for any reason, at least not now or for the forseeable future.

According to the latest government edict, which may have hit the press while you were away, private ownership of real estate in Zimbabwe will soon be a thing of the past.

Zimbabwe to Nationalise All Land

It's unclear from the press reports how this edict will be implemented. But it appears that the state will simply expropriate legal title to all of the land in the country without paying any compensation to those whose land is confiscated.

Apparently, the state may lease the land to "vetted" private persons for 25 years (in the case of wildlife conservancies) or 99 years (for farmland).

These are obviously the worst sort of communist tactics, and remind me of measures used by the Soviet Union under Stalin.

Of course, we all know how well that turned out. In Zimbabwe, I fear it will get a lot worse before it gets any better.

Does Chris Walker not hunt for Ronnie Sparrow ?? Who was arrested last year for illegal hunting in Zim ?

http://www.trophysafaris.com/zimbabwe/outfitter.htm


http://www.sokwanele.com/wildlifeandenvironment/wildandenvarchive/CFU_SAhuntersarrested_july2003.htm


I am not sure I understand the logic in going through a South African Outfitter for a hunt in Zimbabwe,Tanzania, Moz etc etc unless they are the actual concession owner. No slight on Pierre as he did the right thing in the end and sounds like he was caught quite unaware as you were. If this hunt was done for example through HHK, Roy Vincent, Russ Broom, Roger Whittall or John Sharp ( and a host of others)I doubt there would be any problem. I am looking for an Elephant hunt in Zim next year and going through a SA Outfitter to me makes no sense - maybe I am out to lunch. Zim is not the problem, its people taking advantage of the situation there, whether they be South Africans or Zimbabweans. This situation is not endemic to Zim as I am sure we all remember Alex Walker in Zambia, Van der Mullen in SA & Tanzania and the list goes on...

Shaka:



I'm not trying to make fun about your comment, but no one, no matter how reputable, "owns" anything in Zimbabwe any more except... who Mugabe and his goons so wish. That is the point of my post. (I temper my remark with the simple truth that John Sharp is probably big enough to just go beat the crap out of anyone who crosses him... maybe there is a purposefull and intiminating agenda in the cut-off shirts??? Works for me!)



Before I went to Zim I discounted numerous "stories" of problems as the regular crap that dribbles out on the internet every winter/spring.... but this is my story, this time.



There are lots of principled folks in Zimbabwe and I'm sure John Sharp, etc., are among them... I just wonder how long they can continue in a country where there is anarchy, no thought-for-tomorrow and unbridled greed by the ruling party/president.



Still, there are good men out there with guts and hope. God bless them. If you wish to support them in their effort to give a good product for a fair price, have at it! Hell, I've been married more than once. Zim might be like a woman... you just can't live without them (or in this case "it"). I'd darn sure go again if my funds weren't transfered until the product was produced. As I and Lars say, again, "What's time to a pig?"



Heck, I'd venture to say that because of so many folks hesitation to hunt there, discounts abound... and the vast majority of safari bound guys get great value for their dollar. As an example, four of us had a night's stay in Vic Falls, a booze cruise on the Zambize, a private tour of the Falls, an amazing dinner at one of the world's great hotels, transfers to and from the airport, breakfast, a private room... all for less than $200 each. Look at the prices for other countries. Zim is a great bargin if you don't get screwed. Assessing the odds, it is probably a good risk.



If you re-read my posts, you will see that Pierre and Ray weren't the principals, another company/P.H. was. I probably talked Pierre and Ray into this mess. In any event, since three of my friends have hunted with the subject Zim company this very year with no problems (albeit on "government" concessions and not very recently "seized" properties), I thought I'd done my homework... You may have even listed one of the companies in your list, btw. While I've said that Pierr'e gave me a check "in full" as a refund, I'm not such a bastard to accept it without deducting his expenses, since I was a party to the foolishness, too... and I did get feed/wined/dined pretty darn well.



While I know nothing but good things HHK, Sharp, et al., I'd not bet $.10 for their survival in Zim for any extended period.... at least as long as Bro. Robert is still calling the shots.



I'm not pissed at anyone.. Just sad that such a great place has been so screwed up. You pay yo' nickel and yo' takes yo' chances.

JudgeG

I realised you weren't referring to van Tonder. It was self-evident from your posts that he was using a local Zim outfitter and also a Zim national PH on your safari as is the usual and legal custom for outfitters from outside Zim if they want to take clients there.

I was just interested in the 'other' South African outfitter who claimed to have rights there that you met. It is interesting how all the various parties in that country IMO twist the laws of the land to their own gain and then cry foul when they get screw. 'No honour among th*****' it is said! It seems to be gold-rush territory to all sorts after so long being denied to them. And we all know what sorts gold-rushs attract (along with legitimate sorts as well).

You saw my PM. I'm not surprised the Zim outfitter you used has mixed-up deals of this sort if I had the outfitter right (?).

But I glad you came out of it OK and with your deposit intact. Good hunting in the future.

And you are right. Deals can be done there but one has to take the risk along with the discount.

I am a little confused and this is not intended as a criticism, but didn't a hunt on seized land raise a red flag? Maybe I misunderstood and this was not a hunt on seized land, but that is what I got out of it.

If Ganyana is reading this thread, perhaps he can shed some light on the nature of the scam.

Thanks.