I was just reading comments on the 318 WR and thought of the old English rifle of my friends in 333 Jeffery Rimeless. It has English proof marks and load information (300gr and Cordite) right on the bell of the barrel, and all the ususal stamps, but no makers ID, such as Jeffery. It is on a banner Mauser action, but has the thumb-cut, however it has the stripper slip guides removed, or they were never there [?]. The barrel is 27 inches long with a barrel band express rear [one up, and two folding]. The front sight is not a band, but a regular ramp with a hood that folds down, but is attached. It appears to have a longer [extended] magazine well. I do not know how many it holds.

Does this sound like a common 333 Jeffery. What do you all know about its performance on game. The rifle was supposedly a return from Africa and was bought from a shop in England. He plans on taking it back on safari.

My reprint copy of the 1936 ICI/Kynoch catalog lists the following ballistics:

250 gr bullet (sec den = .322) at 2500 fps
300 gr bullet (sec den = .386) at 2200 fps

Bullet diameter is .333 inches. From reading the old books (Taylor, etc.) it apparently had a very good reputation on game.

I can't help with the questions about the rifle.

see: http://www.kynochammunition.co.uk/

-Bob F.

The cartridges are odd looking. Theyare much shorter than a 404 Jeffery, but they are as round on the rim. He has 10 original bullets 5 solids and 5 soft points.

I believe it's the same case, shortened and necked down. Its performance was legendary because of the sectional density of the 300 gr. bullet. If someone knows where you can get 300 gr. .338's, the Winnie could match it, though the pressure might be higher. Killer cartridge!

I have Barnes originals in 300 grain for the 338. I have two cherised boxes for reloading. Interesting we needed a 338 Win Mag when the 333 Jeffery was already there.

Anyone have any pictures of a Jefferys rifle in this caliber? I would love to compare.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 333_OKH:
Interesting we needed a 338 Win Mag when the 333 Jeffery was already there.
QUOTE]

Pshaw! Any ballistically knowledgeable person knows that there isn't anything new that has come out since WWII. Everything that we have now was done before. It just wasn't always on the market when we were looking, is all. Besides, the NIH (not invented here) syndrome prevails as well as the makers' need to sell new toys.

Woodleigh makes 300 gr bullets in .333" and .338" diameter. (Soft point round nose and FMJ in both calibers.) I have two boxes of the .338" 300 gr RN SP Woodleigh bullets on my components shelf. I have a new .338 Win Mag in the works (Ruger M77 MkII). When I get it back from my gunsmith, I plan on trying some of the 300 gr bullets.

A lot of people don't remember this but Winchester originally offered a 300 gr load in the .338 Win Mag. If memory serves me correctly, the muzzle velocity was 2430 fps for the factory load. The 300 gr bullet in the .338 WM was one of the reasons (I think) that Winchester standardized on a 1-10" twist rate for the .338 WM.

http://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/

-Bob F.

Well if that is the correct loading for the 300 gr. .338, it shows that once upon a time, the majors had a lot better sense than they seem to now. If someone would be so kind as to find a load that performs like that and publish it here, he will have done the African hunting community a major service. A 300 gr. Woodleigh at 2400? Die, giraffe, eland, (fill in the blank here), die! You ought to be able to shoot one in the brisket and find an exit hole under his tail. Whaddaload!

Well, I can't find a handy reference right now that shows the original Winchester 300 gr factory load for the .338 Win Mag. However, IMR lists load data for the 300 gr Winchester Power Point (no longer made) in .338 WM.

http://www.imrpowder.com/data/rifle/338winmag.php

338 WINCHESTER MAG
BBL: 24" PRIMER: WINCHESTER LR TWIST: 1:10"
300 GR. WIN PPT SP
DIA: .338" COL: 3.330"
IMR 4350 64.5 gr 2410 fps 53,800 CUP
IMR 4831 68.5 gr 2480 fps 54,000 CUP

That's right in line with the 2430 fps I recall for the 300 gr Winchester factory load. Yep, my .338 Win Mag is going to be my poor man's .333 Jeffery!!

One note of caution regarding the charge of IMR-4831 shown above: I worked up a load for a friend's .338 WM using the 250 Nosler Partition. The powder charge was 69.0 grs of IMR-4831. (Ruger M77 MkII, 24" barrel, Winchester WLR primer, W-W brass, COL: 3.30") The average muzzle velocity was 2651 fps (10 shots). So, 68.5 grs of IMR-4831 with a 300 gr bullet might be a little stiff. Still, at least this data provides some guidelines for working up a load wth a 300 gr bullet in the .338 WM. As always, reduce the charge and carefully work up.

-Bob F.

Here is an original 333 Jeffery from 1908 (apparently the first year of production of the 333 Rimless Jeffery cartridge. I bought it and a Jeffery in 375 while I was in Zimbabwe, so it was probably one the first 333 Jeffery rifles in Africa. It even came with 8 boxes of still sealed Kynoch 333 Jeffery ammo.

It is the Model 3, built on a "standard" Mauser 98 action with slightly reduced magazine size and capacity to 3 rounds in order to make it trim in the mid section.This model was favored by John Taylor for it's handling qualities.I would like to think that Pondoro might have even handled this rifle at some point in time, but that is obviously just a matter for daydreaming . The regular model had a slightly larger magazine area, but not what I would call a "drop box". Could it be that your friend has a Magnum Mauser action on his rifle?

As you might guess, these rifles are some of my favorites due to the history associated with them. It was worth all the red tape involved with the import process.

Jim

I need a 333 Jeffery like a hole in the head. I have a 333OKH and a 338 Win Mag, but the old girl just looks like a logical addition to the 33 caliber collection. I guess I would need a 318 WR too huh?

Still hoping to get pics of another 333 Jeffery magazine rifle.

quote:

Here is an original 333 Jeffery from 1908

Thanks for the photo! You must have been posting as I was? That rifle is much trimmer than my friend's. It is not a magnum length action on his Mauser, but it has the Mauser banner on the front ring. Is your's with a ladder sight or leafs?

Great rifle and I would love to see more pics of it anytime you want to post them.

Wot? Yer don't have a .318? And yer call yerself an African hunter? Fershame, don'tcherknow. Ev'ryone who goes t'Africa needs a .318, by Gadfrey! If 'twas good enough for Pondoro and Isaak Dinesen, 'tought t'be good enough f'you and every other shootin' johnny on the Dark Continent. 've had Professional Hunters 'bsolutely drool over mine 'n' its a mere W.W.Greener. 'n' when they see the exit hole, yer should see their knees shake with envy!

.

quote:

Originally posted by 333_OKH:

quote:

Here is an original 333 Jeffery from 1908

Thanks for the photo! You must have been posting as I was? That rifle is much trimmer than my friend's. It is not a magnum length action on his Mauser, but it has the Mauser banner on the front ring. Is your's with a ladder sight or leafs?

Great rifle and I would love to see more pics of it anytime you want to post them.

333OKH,

It actually has the "Long Range" rear sight, with 1 standing, 3 folding, and a folding ladder graduated to 1000 yards. On top of that, it has a "cocking piece peep". It was sighted for the 300 grain load. Here are a couple more photos per your request.



Alf,

If my rifle is any indication, George was wrong in his claim. Groove diameter was actually less than .333 in the central area. Near the muzzle and chamber it was slightly larger than in the center from years of cordite and poor cleaning, but still not more than .333. Of course, as you WELL know, "standardization" was just a word in some of these early barrels .

Good to hear from you. I haven't been posting or reading much on AR recently. I hope that all is going well with you and with your family in RSA. Any new "toys" recently?

Jim

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Mbogo375

Be proud of that rifle. It has a few features different than other Jeffery rifles I have handled and it is perfect looking piece of history.

The barrel appears to have the H&H profile first used when they introduced the 375.

The stock has a deeply curved pistol grip more common later on.

The wood! What type of wood is that? It is deeper in color than most English walnut, and looks a lot like a black to me...I love thewood on the butt of this rifle. It is exactly the type of stock I am tryin to find a blanks for. Can you take a shot of the right side of the butt for viewing?

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quote:

Originally posted by 333_OKH:
Mbogo375

Be proud of that rifle. It has a few features different than other Jeffery rifles I have handled and it is perfect looking piece of history.

The barrel appears to have the H&H profile first used when they introduced the 375.

The stock has a deeply curved pistol grip more common later on.

The wood! What type of wood is that? It is deeper in color than most English walnut, and looks a lot like a black to me...I love thewood on the butt of this rifle. It is exactly the type of stock I am tryin to find a blanks for. Can you take a shot of the right side of the butt for viewing?

333OKH,

Thanks for the kind words. I believe that the wood is still a variety of European walnut. As to which variety, I can not answer with certainty (Turkish, Circassian ???, I can't really say). Age and oil contribute to the darker coloration .

Here are a couple more photos.

Jim

Fabulous gun and wood and sights and and and.....

Keep it, dont ever sell it, but if you want to PM me!

.

quote:

In WW1 the Brits found out that the 333 Jeffery did exactly what the 338 Lapua is called on to do today.

Excellent history...do we know more about this use and the guns?

I found two boxes of Win. 300 grn powerpoint bullets, boxes of 50. I sent them to my pal in Namibia. He loved them for their expansion and penatration without the meat damage of the lighter bullets. He couldnt belive Win. would stop making such a great bullet.