New Gun Calibre Advice

02 January 2011, 10:55

Beretta682E

I am getting another cz550/american hunting rifle modified rifle. I have one in 375 H&H with a trijicon scope simply love the gun - the best firearm i have ever bought. Taken it to africa and throughly enough using and shooting it.

Have bought another 375 and now have to decide what calibre to build the rifle on - i am left handed so i have to buy a 375 build another calibre on the platform.

I think I have narrowed my choices down to

404 jefferies
416 rigby
450 rigby
458 lott

which one of these would make the best complement to an existing 375 h&h

primarily hunting buffalo - i think i will use by 375 for everything else

availability of ammunition

recoil - i shoot the 375 well - much better than my 7 mm remington which i hate - i like a heavy gun

flexibility to shoot other plains game - primarily eland - if they show up while hunting buffalo

thanks in advance

02 January 2011, 11:47

ozhunter

404 or 458Lott
The 458 if a number of Ele are to be taken in the foreseeable future and you don't mind heavy recoil.

02 January 2011, 12:28

Karl S

450 Rigby

02 January 2011, 15:00

Will

416 Remington.

It has a big enough KO value, has greater penetration than the bigger stuff, and pretty much all one would ever need.

-------------------------------
Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.
---------------------------------------
and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR
_________________________

"Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped.
“Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped.

red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com
_________________________

If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go.

02 January 2011, 15:21

grandveneur

458 lott is imho the best complement in this case ! The calibers .458 are the best all round cartridges for big game ! Personally i prefer the 460WM !

02 January 2011, 18:34

maki

I was in exactly the same place a few years ago. I went with the .404J. I figured the .416's were too close in trajectory to the .375 and that if I didn't get a .458, I'd have a slot left for a big double.

Dean

02 January 2011, 19:36

Will

quote:
Originally posted by maki:
I was in exactly the same place a few years ago. I went with the .404J. I figured the .416's were too close in trajectory to the .375 and that if I didn't get a .458, I'd have a slot left for a big double.

Dean

HUH?

02 January 2011, 19:41

Frostbit

quote:
Originally posted by Will:
416 Remington.

It has a big enough KO value, has greater penetration than the bigger stuff, and pretty much all one would ever need.

Did you choose that over the .416 Rigby because of the difference in ammo cost?

______________________
DRSS
______________________
Hunt Reports

2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112
2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012
DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191
Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771
Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141
Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141

02 January 2011, 19:43

venda axe

quote:
I was in exactly the same place a few years ago. I went with the .404J. I figured the .416's were too close in trajectory to the .375 and that if I didn't get a .458, I'd have a slot left for a big double.

IMO having a similar trajectory as the 375 with more knockdown power is a good thing. My vote would be for the 416 Rigby, although the 458 Lott would not be a bad choice. Both of these have fairly accassable ammo.

02 January 2011, 19:50

Lhook7

quote:
Originally posted by Karl S:
450 Rigby

Ditto!!

02 January 2011, 20:08

Tim Vining

416 Rem is a good choice. Will K.O. any animal. Ammo availability is good.

02 January 2011, 20:36

jjs

quote:
Originally posted by Beretta682E:

primarily hunting buffalo - i think i will use by 375 for everything else

availability of ammunition

recoil - i shoot the 375 well - much better than my 7 mm remington which i hate - i like a heavy gun

flexibility to shoot other plains game - primarily eland - if they show up while hunting buffalo

thanks in advance

Since you noted Buffalo/Plains Game, I would rule out the 458s. I have a 404 Jeffery and really like this chambering, however, I like slimmer, trimmer, and reduced weight.

I am done with 10+ lb bare rifles, they are a pain to carry all day. My 404 Jeffery is 8.25 lbs bare and is a pleasure to carry. Loaded to a nominal 2400 fps, it works very well on Buffalo and PG. With solids it would work just fine on Elephant.

Best of luck on your choice...

02 January 2011, 21:44

Sevens

404 Jeffery is a very nostalgic caliber and, I hear, mild in recoil yet still very effective on game. Hornady also has factory loads for it now!

I think the 416 Rem Mag and 458 Lott would be the easiest conversions since their case is based on the 375 H&H (i.e. same bolt face). They will also have the advantage of you'll be able to hold 5, maybe 6, down in the magazine.

Since you said primarily buffalo hunting, using the calibers listed, I'd give the 404 Jeffery the nod. Even though it's not listed, the 416 Rem Mag seems like a good contender, especially once you consider ammo availability and magazine capacity.

03 January 2011, 00:01

Will

quote:
Originally posted by Frostbit:
quote:
Originally posted by Will:
416 Remington.

It has a big enough KO value, has greater penetration than the bigger stuff, and pretty much all one would ever need.

Did you choose that over the .416 Rigby because of the difference in ammo cost?

Well, for one thing I killed most of the critters with a 416 Remington. It works. It gives you more in the mag than the Rigby.

And I converted to the last 416 Remington from a .375 H&H CZ 550 Magnum. You put a new barrel on it, chamber it, and away you go. No mess. No fuss.

And with 1 up and 5 down, what's not to like? Goose bump good.

03 January 2011, 00:04

Will

quote:
I am done with 10+ lb bare rifles,

Everyone comes around eventually!

03 January 2011, 00:57

Cross L

Will,

I came across an article where you talked about building a 416 Taylor. Do you still like it?

SSR

03 January 2011, 01:02

cable68

FWIW, when I wanted something bigger than a 375, I went with the 404J.

03 January 2011, 01:09

Will

quote:
Originally posted by Cross L:
Will,

I came across an article where you talked about building a 416 Taylor. Do you still like it?

SSR

Then you know I built it on a CZ 550 Medium (7mm Rem Mag). With a drop magazine plate I can get 4 down.

I did it for the reduced weight: 7.5 lbs. Love that rifle.

03 January 2011, 02:20

MARK H. YOUNG

Beretta

For your purposes I think I'd pick the 416 but in the Remington variety for all the reason's Will has mentioned. The Remingtom has similiar ballisics to the Rigby, is cheaper to shoot, recoils less plus offers a larger magazine capacity. To me the Rigby offers nostalgia only unless you want to try and load it beyond 2400 fps and then you get into some serious recoil.

Mark

MARK H. YOUNG
MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES
7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110
Office 702-848-1693
Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED
E-mail markttc@msn.com
Website: myexclusiveadventures.com
Skype: markhyhunter
Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716

03 January 2011, 10:05

wombat

All you mentioned are fine-if you already have a 375 a 458 Lott is very effective and ammo readily available.I have seen the 458 Lott in action on elephant,feral donkey and brumby.It is very effective-you could not go wrong.

03 January 2011, 10:10

ozhunter

"You could not go wrong with the 458LOTT."
Unless you dislike the heavy recoil.

03 January 2011, 12:50

Marty

What a horrible dillema! If you don't think the 375 will do what you want, move up to the 404 or 416. Then sell me the 375 at a bargain price!
Seriously, if elephant might be on the menu, moving up could be justified, the 375, 404 and 416 could all be considered versatile.

03 January 2011, 17:33

daleW

Wwhy not the .458 win mag.? It has an excellent KO value and 5,000 ft/lbs at the muzzle.

It is easy to shoot. And you can always get ammo/brass/bullet for the .458 win mag cheap!!.

I belive the .458 win mag is the best choice in the 400's.

But your .375 is an excellent choice as well.

03 January 2011, 18:22

Larry Sellers

FWIW - I would go with the .458 something. The 404 and the .416's are too close to your .375, so if a new gun is in order go up a step or two.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

03 January 2011, 19:17

Will

quote:
Originally posted by daleW:
Wwhy not the .458 win mag.? It has an excellent KO value and 5,000 ft/lbs at the muzzle.

It is easy to shoot. And you can always get ammo/brass/bullet for the .458 win mag cheap!!.

I belive the .458 win mag is the best choice in the 400's.

But your .375 is an excellent choice as well.

The 550 Magnum is just too much gun bulk for the 458 WM. If going to the 458 WM get a smaller platform.

03 January 2011, 19:18

Will

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
FWIW - I would go with the .458 something. The 404 and the .416's are too close to your .375, so if a new gun is in order go up a step or two.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

I have the different opinion that the 416 Rem MAg is not close to the 375 H&H.

03 January 2011, 19:34

daleW

quote:
The 550 Magnum is just too much gun bulk for the 458 WM. If going to the 458 WM get a smaller platform.

Will,

You can purchase another rifle other than the 550 magnum.
Example: You can purchase a quality new .458 win mag african safari grade for under 2k from several rifle manufactures.

Why even deal with the 550?

dale

04 January 2011, 01:02

maki

quote:
Originally posted by Will:
quote:
Originally posted by maki:
I was in exactly the same place a few years ago. I went with the .404J. I figured the .416's were too close in trajectory to the .375 and that if I didn't get a .458, I'd have a slot left for a big double.

Dean

HUH?

Yeah, that was a bit vague.

I'm a minimalist when it comes to hunting rifles. Kind of along the lines of "beware the man with only one rifle", except 1 rifle won't really be good for what I want to do. I am also a bit of a recoil wuss and have to keep working at it to handle the heavier cartridges. Basically, I've got a small collection of hunting rifles that have enough ballistic overlap so that if one rifle goes sour, another one is on hand to do the job well, if not perfectly.

When buffalo entered the picture, I got a .375, I like it and it taught me how to manage recoil. Then I figured elephant might come along one day. I wanted something a bit heavier (but still with relatively little recoil). I also figured I'd like to try a heavy double. In the end, I settled on a .404J and a .470. For what it is worth, if I were starting over, I'd skip the .375 and .404j and go wth a .416 bolt and a big double. But I'm not and I do like rifles I'm currently working with.

Dean

Dean

04 January 2011, 01:08

Will

quote:
Originally posted by daleW:
quote:
The 550 Magnum is just too much gun bulk for the 458 WM. If going to the 458 WM get a smaller platform.

Will,

You can purchase another rifle other than the 550 magnum.
Example: You can purchase a quality new .458 win mag african safari grade for under 2k from several rifle manufactures.

Why even deal with the 550?

dale

I think he wanted a 550 because he can get it in a left hand version (???).

04 January 2011, 01:11

Will

quote:
Originally posted by maki:
quote:
Originally posted by Will:
quote:
Originally posted by maki:
I was in exactly the same place a few years ago. I went with the .404J. I figured the .416's were too close in trajectory to the .375 and that if I didn't get a .458, I'd have a slot left for a big double.

Dean

HUH?

Yeah, that was a bit vague.

I'm a minimalist when it comes to hunting rifles. Kind of along the lines of "beware the man with only one rifle", except 1 rifle won't really be good for what I want to do. I am also a bit of a recoil wuss and have to keep working at it to handle the heavier cartridges. Basically, I've got a small collection of hunting rifles that have enough ballistic overlap so that if one rifle goes sour, another one is on hand to do the job well, if not perfectly.

When buffalo entered the picture, I got a .375, I like it and it taught me how to manage recoil. Then I figured elephant might come along one day. I wanted something a bit heavier (but still with relatively little recoil). I also figured I'd like to try a heavy double. In the end, I settled on a .404J and a .470. For what it is worth, if I were starting over, I'd skip the .375 and .404j and go wth a .416 bolt and a big double. But I'm not and I do like rifles I'm currently working with.

Dean

Dean

Sounds like an excellent plan. Can always goose the 404 up in velocity if need be.

04 January 2011, 01:11

ledvm

If I already had a .375 H&H...I would get a .458 Win Mag. In your list...I guess the Lott or maybe the .450 Rigby...not too familiar with that round.

Any case...if you have a 3-7-5...and are going up...and plan to keep the 3-7-5...go to at least 4-5-8!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.

04 January 2011, 01:20

Russ Gould

The 375 and 404 are from a critter's perspective the same thing.

You need to get something a lot bigger. The 416 is an "in-between" the 375 and 458s. Doesn't really make sense.

I would opt for the 450 Rigby despite the ammo problem because this action is big enough and long enough to take it. Just make sure the stock is reinforced and properly bedded. You can always load the 450 Rigby down a bit, but you can't push the 458 Win Mag any harder.

The 458 Lott or 470 Capstick would be the runners up.

This action is way too long for a 458 Win, and if you want a 458 Win, just go ahead and buy one to start with. (I think CZ will sell you a 450 Rigby so I am a little puzzled as to why you bought another 375).

04 January 2011, 02:13

cable68

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
FWIW - I would go with the .458 something. The 404 and the .416's are too close to your .375, so if a new gun is in order go up a step or two.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

On the other hand, having 2 versatile chamberings is nice insurance in case Murphy comes along as an uininvited safari guest.

04 January 2011, 04:14

JabaliHunter

.375H&H and .458Lott - what a fantastic duo in an identical pair of rifles

Add a .30-06 or .300Win Mag and you have a 3 rifle battery for the entire planet!

04 January 2011, 12:59

Idaho Sharpshooter

CZ's in: 375 H&H and 458 Lott
Searcy in 470 NE

done...

Rich

06 January 2011, 23:26

Bwana Nderobo

I love my 416Rem. In an 11lb Win 70, it kills everything and anything you point it at. Easy conversion, too. oh, and, accurate as all hell.

Phil Massaro
President, Massaro Ballistic Laboratories, LLC
NRA Life Member
B&C Member
www.mblammo.com

Hunt Reports- Zambia 2011
http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1481089261

"Two kinds of people in this world, those of us with loaded guns, and those of us who dig. You dig."

07 January 2011, 06:06

DLS

quote:
Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Beretta

For your purposes I think I'd pick the 416 but in the Remington variety for all the reason's Will has mentioned. The Remingtom has similiar ballisics to the Rigby, is cheaper to shoot, recoils less plus offers a larger magazine capacity. To me the Rigby offers nostalgia only unless you want to try and load it beyond 2400 fps and then you get into some serious recoil.

Mark

You can also go with a 416 hoffman if you want to go beyond 2400 fps. I easily get 2510 with mine, using RL15 and a 400 grain trophy bonded sledgehammer. It'll go faster than that, but I started losing accuracy and it does kick like hell with that stiff a load. A 400 grain bullet at 2500+ kills stuff good!

07 January 2011, 06:22

FOsteology

The .375 H&H and .458 Lott made the most sense to me, and is the route I went.

07 January 2011, 08:54

GunsCore

quote:
Originally posted by JabaliHunter:
.375H&H and .458Lott - what a fantastic duo in an identical pair of rifles
Add a .30-06 or .300Win Mag and you have a 3 rifle battery for the entire planet!

Or just a 416 and a 30-06 for the entire planet.

07 January 2011, 09:57

jdollar

man, all this discussion/dissension gives me a headache. glad i just use whatever rifle the outfitter has in camp that is appropriate for the task. so far, has worked fine for buffalo, hippo, croc, leopard, and a LARGE assortment of plainsgame. and if a plan comes together this fall, should work for a tuskless elephant.