I am looking for the opinions of AR members on what is good representative trophy sizes for the following animals.

Also what would be a great trophy.

I'm not really that worried how many inches it is, more the hunt, but would like to try for game that is at least representative.

Western Zimbabwe
Cape buffalo
Sable
Waterbuck

Limpopo South Africa
Bushbuck
Red hartebeest
Impala

Thanks

[ 08-08-2002, 20:50: Message edited by: NitroExpress.com ]

For buff there's a lot to consider but I would consider anything wider than 40" with a hard boss as a real trophy...with the emphasis on a hard boss.

For sable the same "magic" 40" and above for a trophy.

For waterbuck that magic number seems to be 30" but I think that might be tough in Zim...a more realistic number might be 28".

Western Zimbabwe
Cape buffalo <======== 35"-36"
Sable <======== 37"-38"
Waterbuck <======== 25"-27"

Limpopo South Africa
Bushbuck<======== 13"
Red hartebeest<======== 21"
Impala<======== 20"

These are I consider representative; you should always tell your PH you want TROPHY heads!

George

John,

Much of this trophy beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but your PH will know his local "inventory" -- and he will be orders of magnitude better than you in judging. He also does not want you taking too small animals. It reflects poorly on him.

I like to hunt the older animals; I like trophies with mass, and I don't value length quite as much as some seem to. Fortunately for me, many trophies are measured by combining the length of the horns and the circumference of th bases.

From the numbers I see, the average Cape buff shot in Zim has a spread of 39". Obviously that means some smaller are shot too. The older bull with hard bosses is a "better" trophy than a youngster.

For impala look at the shape of the horns. If you see that the horns lean inward at all, pass on that guy. You are looking for horns that are at least parallel at the tips, or better leaning away from each other.

I like the sable with "towering" bases. Tips can get worn easily, so good mass and a high thirty something will work.

The waterbucks can definitely have goodly mass, and will be in the high twenties.

I haven't hunted in Limpopo Province. Trust your PH on the bushbuck. Red hartebeest can have good mass when they are older, although they will wear the tips.Your PH will know what is the representative animal for his area.

Have fun, and take pictures!

jim dodd

For the Zim animals, I think George is right on "representative" specimens. If you hunt hard in decent areas, you should shoot a 38"+ hard bossed buffalo, 38-42" on sable and 27-30" on waterbuck. These are the ranges of realistic expectations for trophy animals. With luck, you may do better on one or two of the trophies.

On buffalo, I would rather take a worn out old dagga boy with a hard, smooth boss and worn tips than a young 45 incher with a soft boss.

Jim,
Not to be argumentative, but I seriously doubt a 39" average for Zim, generally. What "numbers" are you speaking of? Certainly, an individual Outfitter, with a strong group of "PH's" and good hunting areas may accomplish this, or even better it, but is 39" seems high to me for an average or representative figure, across the board.

Buff average 38"
Sable 38"
Kudu 53"
bushbuck 13"
Impala 21"

Based on the above my records show for last year that 60% of the Buffalo shot with the Safari Company I rep for were 40" and over...Largest being 46"'s. last year.

7 out of 13 Sable over 40"'s
8 Kudu out of 11 over 55"'s, the largest 62"
11 bushbuck, the largest was 18" and now #5 SCI.
6 waterbuck over 27"s the largest 33
7 Reedbuch, the largest was almost 16
A 14.7" croc
A 42 lb. elephant in the Omay (largest killed in the Omay last year)
A 26" an a 24" Impala and most were 22,23 inches.

A smattering for Zim in 2000, but actual records so as to give you some idea what to expect in a good Safari area...

We get 48 buffalo, 13 Leopards, 5 Lion, 10 Sable, crocs and hippo in one area above Mana Pools and part of the concession is actually in Chewore So. We hunt the Omay and Rifa area also and Chinhoyi....

I know the majority probably does not agree, but what about hair quailty.

Nickudu,

I don't know if anyone totes *all* the Cape buff shot in Zim in any year, but I was quoting numbers from the safari companies I work with or talk to. I expect that these are all outfits that would falll into the top echelon, so perhaps that biases the numbers up. But then again hunters on this forum seem to hunt with the good outfits.

Ray's sample comes in at 38" which generally agrees with what I claimed.

How about that qualification?

jim dodd

Nitro-I can only give you actual measurements from buffalo I have personally shot, or seen shot. My wifes: First one, 37", second, 40". Mine: 38", 40",40", 41", 43", and one pick-up, 45". Others I have seen shot: Two 38", one 39", two 40" and one 41". These were shot in Gokwe, Zm.
I hope this gives you an idea of what to expect from at least one area of Zimbabwe.
Good luck, JLS

We have shot 3 buffalo in Zim a 37, 41 aand a 46.

BigB

Jim Dodd: "From the numbers I see, the average Cape buff shot in Zim has a spread of 39"."

My response:

Jim Dodd: "I expect that these are all outfits that would falll into the top echelon, so perhaps that biases the numbers up."

As suggested, your numbers encompass a small % of the whole and those of a top operation. The minute you incorporate additional numbers the average starts to drop and will continue doing so until you get more in line with what George S suggested.

How's that for an answer?

[ 08-09-2002, 05:49: Message edited by: Nickudu ]

Nickudu,

I am just back from the sushi bar, and I am reading this thread with a wee dram of The Balvenie 15 year old.

Instead of average we should probably talk about the median. That statistic describes the number for which half the values are higher and half are lower.

Those who want can enter <median> in google.com and select a tutorial.

The median would probably mean more to us as a descriptive of the representative trophy.

Just looking at the numbers hunters have posted here, 39" is looking pretty good. But if you want a lower number, then you can stick with 36". <---humor

I will ask the African Hunter staff if they have a larger data set.

jim dodd

My guesstimate would be around 37.5" as an average trophy size, country-wide, while still agreeing with GeorgeS as to what constitutes a good representative trophy. I don't profess to know more than Jim Dodd, he's been around a heck of a long time. However, I do maintain that a 39" buffalo is a damn good one and most certainly not average.

[ 08-09-2002, 16:45: Message edited by: Nickudu ]

Nickudu

The Outfitter/PH said the representative heads taken is in the 36" to 38" range, with the best taken on the property being 42 1/4".

So a 39" would be great.

And I'm looking for good bosses. There's nothing like a buff with heavy and solid bosses. Here's hoping.

Nickudu,

Profess away, it is good for the dialog if nothing else.

My 60th birthday is next week, and I hope to keep going to Africa. I got interested reading John Hunter's book Hunter when I was in the 7th grade in 1955. It only took me until 1977 to actually set foot on the continent.

Back to Cape buff representative trophy in Zim. I pulled a book off the shelf, Lou Hallamore's In the Salt. Lou sez:

"Today, buffalo over 40 inches are not normal, they are the exception. I do not care whether you are in Botswana, Tanzania or Zimbabwe there are very few companies that average over 40 inches. Now I am talking buffalo in plural, nor four of five on quota, but 20-30. Recently in the Omay I measured 20 or so buffalo and the average was just under 39 inches. This may not be outstanding, but it is darn good. Amongst the horns was a 45-incher, lots of 40s and of course plenty of 37s and 39s. As a professional shooting buffalo evey year I know that one is very lucky to shoot even one buffalo over 45 inches. In 18 years of hunting in fact I have never shot a trophy exceeding 50 inches and probably only shot five or six over 45 inches."

On trophy quality he later says:

"I have taken many 38-39-inchers with superb bosses and they look brilliant."

I think this is the buff that your hunter will try to find for you.

jim dodd

You have got to love an old Dagga boy with large thick well formed bosses. It adds so very much character to him! I'd gladdy give up an inch or two for a better boss.
Vince

Here is Don Heath's reply to my query on the median buff size in Zimbabwe.

"Average spread is 38" in Zim

Cheers

Don"

Don is the editor at African Hunter, as well as being a wildlife biologist, PH Proficiency Exam examiner, etc. He has access to a lot of data on hunting in Zim.

jim dodd

Jim Dodd,
That same book sucked me in about 5 years after you. Still got it. Well, at least Lou Hallamore concurs that 39 inches is "darn good". Omay is a pretty strong buffalo area and is, afterall, only one area and in tandem with a 20 buffalo sampling is a thin foundation on which to base a Zim-wide average. I've gotta stick by my "SWAG", for now. Hey Jim, a Happy 60th Birthday to you and many, many more.

Nick

Nick,

The first time I read it, it was a school library book. A few years back I found a copy in a used book store. Cost me $9 as I recall.

Thank you for the birthday wishes, and the same right back at you.

jim dodd

Jim,
"My" initial copy WAS the Library copy. Damned if I didn't try to return it every Sunday for months, but it was always closed. Then I found my present copy at a yard sale ($1.00) and, low and behold, I caught the Library open shortly afterwards. I was a bad boy, let me tell ya.