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| One of Us |
Great article in October issue of the American Rifleman by Joe Coogan titled, "Guns of the Professionals". Starts with a discussion of Harry Selby's, John Kingsleey-Heathe's and Wally Johnson's choices of go-to rifles, a bit of discussion about Coogin's own choice and then, probably to fill words, a discussion of shotguns on wounded leopards. That article hit home to me because I wounded a leopard for the first, and hopefully last time, last year, when he decided to exit the tree right as I shot. It was a dicey follow up, but long story short, my PH flattened him at 6 yards with buckshot from a shotgun. I was completely embarrassed to have caused all of this, especially with trackers with whom I've hunted before. I sat in the skinning shed and the results were, only four pellets hit the leopard, all in the head, close to his eye. Of the four, only two penetrated the skull. It was enough, but ... All's well that ends well, but that's too close of a margin for me, so I tend to agree that a shotgun is not the best choice. That said, I was right there with a rifle, with scope removed, and it was so fast when he came that I never caught up with him to get off a shot. Best advice is don't wound a leopard and I'll never shoot another with my usual rifle for buffalo. It always worked fine in the past, but the scope doesn't have a big enough objective and i had to wait too long for enough light. So I bought a leopard rifle specific to the purpose that I will use next time. No more leopard follow ups. | ||
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| One of Us |
With leopard, the scope can be more important than the rifle, the caliber, the bullet or anything else. Only shot placement is more important and, of course, it's tied to the scope. | |||
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My problem was he was standing and I decided to shoot. At that point he jumped out of the tree. I should have just brained him while he was laying on the branch. | |||
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Some of us will swear by a 12 gauge shotgun on a wounded Leopard follow-up to a rifle. Its one thing if the Leopard is found motionless giving the opportunity of a well aimed shot and another if it is a preceding grunt and full charge at a reduced distance as you had mentioned. The pattern of the pellets at close quarters is pretty tight and if pointing in the frontal direction of the charge will hit it in the face and if not a DRT result, will definitely give you the opportunity of an immediate second discharge. More importantly is to select the right shell (high brass) for these situations and if you know what you are doing, can even wire several pellets together like bunches of grapes which will produce a cluster pattern and very lethal. | |||
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Fulvio, I get it that it's a trade off. I'd rather have a rifle, but I had one and couldn't get off a shot. If it was up to me, someone would have been hurt. I've never seen anything that fast. I've read about it, but wasn't prepared for just how fast it was. The shotgun did the job, but just barely. Lacing the shot together with wire is a great idea, but this shot was through brush and that could have presented issues. Anyway, I never want to create that situation again, so I have a new rifle with a new scope to avoid that situation. But this was all on me. | |||
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Shit happens even to the best so don't dwell on it. When Murphy decides to apply his law one just has to accept it and make the best of a bad deal.  | |||
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Nah and shit happens and you have to take the rough with the smooth. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Wonder how a tungsten shot shell would have performed ? I haven’t used them personally but the penetration reports are impressive. | |||
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Joe Coogan knows his shit from long experience in Kenya as a resident hunter and as PH in Botswana and Tanzania. He apprenticed un der Harry Selby. He is a wealth of knowledge on African hunting and history. I had the pleasure of doing a five day photo safari with him in Tanzania before the park thing got way out of hand. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Interesting conversation. I have a question about it. You say you will use a dedicated gun with a better scope. If the cat moved just has you shot and that caused the poor hit how would a different gun have changed that? To my way of thinking the best gun and scope in the world would not have changed anything in that situation. Just curious because I have no experience with cats and want to learn. | |||
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Guy Whittall, Tanya Blake and a third Zim PH (name escapes me) all had issues this year on wounded leopard along with a tracker in Zambia last week. There are two types of people in the world: those that get things done and those who make excuses. There are no others. | |||
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I would think that a tungsten pellet buckshot load would work very well as a leopard stopper. I know that the F shot sized hevishot worked wonders on coyotes- both longer range and better effective patterns. If I could find some .32 TSS, that would probably be ideal for leopard, and might even do for lion. Soft lead buckshot has been known to fail on leopard. I do think after talking with various PH’s that having a mixture of options in the follow up group is better than just one or the other. I shoot a lot more shotgun personally, so if I had to get in a short range charge situation, I’d feel better about a shotgun than a rifle, but with even modest distance then the rifle becomes preferable to me. If I was a PH, it would be a choice based on the circumstances rather than empirical choice of follow up with shotgun for leopard, rifle for everything else. | |||
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APEX makes Wild Boar predator loads w TSS. Number 4 buck TSS would be equal to OOO buck lead. | |||
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Elk Hunter: Bigger objective and higher magnification would have made a difference because I could have shot earlier (watched the cat for some time) and could have shot past an interfering branch that I wasn't willing to try to shoot around with the lower magnification. | |||
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Thanks for the kind words, Fulvio, but still my fault. I could have brained him easy. He was laying on the branch sideways, but looking in our direction. A branch blocked his vitals and I'm not a fan of shooting cats lying down anyway. But with a good rest, and I had it, I can put a 400 grain bullet from that rifle within a 1" circle everytime. So I could have, and should have just brained him. I don't need any more full mount leopards anyway. | |||
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| Administrator |
I have no idea how many leopards I have shot. Most with my one rifle, which is used for everything. I also use bullets which some so called experts do not recommend. The leopards I shot have not read any of these. They all died with one shot. Leopards are shot off a rest. At short distances. No idea why people wound them. Same about shooting animals lying down. I have shot many animals lying down, including leopards and buffalo. Again all died. | |||
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Interesting and I normally follow up at night with a low-power scope and a tracker shining a torch in front of my sight picture. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I find this discussion of rifle vs. shotgun for leopard follow-up to be a very interesting topic, one I’ve debated several times with knowledgeable people that have a different view than my own. For me personally, there is no question I’d take a shotgun over a rifle every time if following any wounded cat and the reason is very simple… I have a shotgun, a 2 3/4” Beretta A390 with 26” IC barrel that I’ve shot approximately 30,000 shells through. From ducks to doves, sporting clays to rabbits, quail & pheasants; I’ve shot pretty much anything you’d use a shotgun for with that old Beretta. So, it’s instinctive and easy for me to hit things with, even those moving extremely fast. I don’t need to think, just point and pull the trigger. A 1 1/4 oz. load of TSS in 4 buck (547 grains) would penetrate deeply I believe and cause massive damage. More importantly, I know I’d hit my target under pressure when fine motor skills are gone and instinct takes over. And I’d have very quick follow up capability. My own view is that hitting a charging cat with the first shot is probably more important than anything. 547 grains, whether going 1,250 or 2,200 fps, is going to have a big impact on stopping or turning any cat. | |||
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Agreed if you are using your shotgun then you would do well. The PHs that have been harmed using shotguns stated they fired too early and it boils down to preference and situation. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I understand the better scope would allow you to shoot earlier and see better, however, unless I am reading your original post wrong the cat moved just as you shot. Even in the middle of the day with perfect light with the best gun and scope if the cat moved just at the shot you are going to get the same result so I still don't understand what a different gun and scope buys you. If the bullet hit a branch that you did not see I understand that a better scope would have let you see that branch but the cat moving was not in your control. | |||
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I’d say, in tough situation, shooting early can be a more of a problem but I think most of a time you just react and the timing ic pretty tough to time Welcome to dangerous game 101 | |||
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Sounds like a good application for a SxS 10 gauge with 20" barrels and quad ought tungston buckshot. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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Too many of the shotgun stories with bad endings that I’ve heard boil down to the use of questionable ammunition. Not all shotgun shells loaded with buckshot are created equal. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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I completely agree with this. I’m not one who thinks bigger is necessarily better. I’d rather have a relatively light, compact & quick pointing shotgun than a long 3 1/2” behemoth that doesn’t swing or point quickly at short range …But above all, I’d want a stout load of TSS! | |||
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Chuck, While not a 10 gauge, I have a SxS Chapuis 12 gauge, smooth bore with rifle sights. I bought it a number of years ago. thought it might be a good follow up gun with one barrel of buck and a sabo in the other. Never used it for that, but did establish that it is a lousy gun for doves. | |||
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Saeed, You are totally correct. No excuse. Hard to believe I screwed up but I did. Not normal. | |||
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| Administrator |
We all do. Here is my worst screw up on leopard, and it could have turned nasty. We were putting up a leopard blind. One of those pop up ones. Best postion was on a slope. And guess what? As we were actually putting the blind up, the bloody leopard turns up less that 50 yards from us. No way to shoot as he was in the bush. We hastily popped the blind up, and sat in it, and let the truck leave. No sooner has the truck left, that the leopard was on the bait tree!? Trouble was he was not clear to me. So I had to move inside the blind to get a clear shot. Just as I did, he starting to run. I fired, as the cross hairs were in the right place. He jumped off, and started walking on away from us - we could see him clearly, but from my position no clear shot!!?? He actually stopped and licked himself, and then disappeared in the grass! As we were trying to get a clear shot, the bloody blind tumbled down the slope!! Hilarious situation if it was dangerous! We were saying "what happened? Howe was your shot? May be I should not have shot" We untangled ourselves, and went to look. We found some blood, but not much. It was getting dark, and we wanted to find him if possible before it became totally dark. One of our trackers started talking, and the word KUFA was mentioned. Sure enough, he was lying just inside the grass from the clearing he was walking on. Relief all over! | |||
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Wow. That’s a hell of a story Saeed! | |||
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The very first leopard I shot. Sitting in a blind, with a 270 Ackley. Leopard comes up the tree, which was perfectly situated with open sky behind the leopard. It was still too dark to see clearly, but his silhouette against the sky was clear made the shot easy. I just put the vertical crosshairs line down his shoulders, and the horizontal crosshairs in the middle of his body and fired. We heard a thump as he fell, and no other sound - like running. It was too dark to go look, so we sat for a bit to get lighter. He was stone dead where he landed. | |||
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Great stories, Saeed. Kufa is the best word to hear on any followup. | |||
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Shot a leopard. It dropped dead under the tree in a dry river bed. Lots of dry leaves. We buried the leopard under the leaves, took a leave with blood on it, and dropped it on the river bank. Only me and Alan. Soon the truck came. We were on the river bank, wafer them. Alan told the trackers the leopard ran off that way, and mentioned it is probably wounded and still alive. It was hilarious! The trackers were pushing each other to go first. After a bit, we decided to go to where it landed and take the tracks from there. One of the trackers stood on the buried leopard, and slipped. He looked down and saw it, jumped about 10 feet high! Then he be brave and wanted so many pictures of him carrying it! | |||
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oops, sorry for the last one. Tried to delete. I was going to say, that Saeed's story about a supposed wounded leopard was hilarious. Cruel, but hilarious. I've told this story elsewhere on this forum, but I shot a leopard on the ground, that ran toward a dense palm thicket (which is a nightmare to track anything in, let alone leopard), but then he doubled back and died in some tall grass. The car came with the trackers and game scout at the sound of the shot. My PH told me to follow his lead and he stood looking really concerned over the blood trail that ran to the edge of the palm thicket. The head tracker arrived and after surveying it, said something along the lines of "May Allah be with us." Then while the trackers were getting ready to go in, the PH took the game scout, who was a very tall Masai, put his hand on his shoulder and said, "Let me show where he came from". As he got to where the leopard was lying dead in the grass, he slid his hand between the scout's shoulder blades and pushed him over the dead cat. When he saw spots under his feet, the reaction was hilarious. But cruel. Reminds me. Anyone know where to get a good rubber snake? I'm going back next year. :-). | |||
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The only explanation I have for why that cat doubled back and didn't continue to run in the direction he was headed is that he was with a female and had just bred her before I shot him. We were all focused on the male and no one saw where the female went at the shot. I suspect she went back to our left and he doubled back to follow her. | |||
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On the topic of pranks, but on this side of the pond, we like to hunt ducks and one of our group is a dead shot. Sooo, we pried open his shells and dumped out all the shot and replaced it with snow goose down. The ducks cooperated perfectly and a high flyer came right over the blind. He stood up and shot and what would normally be a dead duck was a cloud of smoldering goose down drifting in the wind. That trick only works once. | |||
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My buddy Terry Shaughnessy did something similar to me. I had gotten out of the blind to retrieve a couple ducks, a mallard came floating in, kida in front but more on his side, Terry says take him Mike, so I stood up and attempted to shoot, Terry had unloaded the chamber on my gun! I worked the bolt really fast and furious like, got another steel in there and shot the duck. Meanwhile Terry was laughing like a maniac on crack. He didn't think I would figure it out in time, but that I did and still shot the duck he thought was hilarious. I learned after that, if I didn't take my gun when I left the blind, then I had better check it when I got back. Miss you Terry, RIP my friend. Master of Boats, Slayer of Beasts, Charmer of the fair sex, ...... and sometimes changer of the diaper..... | |||
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Lavaca, What rifle/scope did you settle on for a leopard rifle? | |||
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Gunwerks Magnus, in .300 WM, with a 3.5-18 x 50 Kahles scope with a ballistic turret tuned to 190 grain Berger bullets. | |||
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Ain't nothing wrong with a 300 magnum for leopards and you can't beat the versatility. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Article in American Riflleman on PH Rifles and Leopards
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