I have taken one buffalo with a .375 and five with a .416 Rem. Hardly enough experience for a true statistical analysis. But I would recommend the .416 for buffalo. The .375 will work, the .416 will work better. The .375 will be a bit more flexible in the event of problems with your light rifle. However, if problems arise with a buffalo, I would rather have my .416 than my .375 in my hands at the time. How's that for a definitive opinion? No experience with the Lott.

Regards,

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by lee440:
On the other hand, if practical, it would be nice to not have to have the pro put a backup shot in just because the caliber was a little on the light side for the job, assuming I do my part on shot placement. Lee.

Lee - your PH isn't going to shoot at your buff unless
1) the conditions justify it (time of day, location to property border, etc...)
2) you duff the shot - in which case it doesn't matter if you shot him with a 375 or a 735.

You already know the answer, take the one you are most comfortable with and the one that you shoot the best. Have a great hunt!

Right off the blocks, I will tell you the only one shot kills I have ever experienced on Cape Buffalo,unless the spine or brain was hit, have been witha 375 H&H useing 300 gr Nosler partitions, pushed along at 2500 FPS! All others have taken at least three shots regardless of caliber, or bullet type!

A full 99% of the buffalo you shoot, the first shot will be on a relaxed buff. I carry my 375 with a 300 gr NP in the tube, for the first shot, with a magazine full of 300 gr Barnes super solids. Place to NP in the boiler room, and the war is over!

I voted for the 458 LOTT of your choices, because it is a real Buffalo rifle, for sure! Addtionally, I would take the 375 H&H as my light rifle, along with the LOTT. Then no matter which rifle is in your hands, when you stumble onto a fine old Buff, there is no need to pass on him till you can get another rifle. I have taken a lot of plains game with a 375H&H, and out to 300 yds, it will do if you learn your rifle at those distances, but most shots will be under 200 yds in most places, and in tighter bush will likely be under 100 yds.

Since you are takeing two buffalo, I'd take one with each rifle!

Good luck, and good hunting!

I would take the 458 Lott. Load 500 grain bullets at 2150 to 2200fps. Moderate recoil, plenty of thump.

Just bought a 416 and after shooting it quite a bit I still favor my pre 64 .375. Ive shoot lots of game with that rifle and a like chambered Sako. Im a one gun for travel guy so when I go back it will probably be with the .375. Ive shot three buffalo and a bull ele with it and it kills just fine thank you very much.

I have also shot six Buffalo. I've used the .375 H&H as well as a .416 Rigby and a .470NE for two and a Ele. There is definately a bigger reaction with the bigger guns. Frankly, the .470NE actually seemed to hit the hardest and resulted in my only one shot kill. The outcome was the same though, they get wacked, You shoot them again running, they then run off 50-100yrds and die. Not much drama if you shoot them well.-Rob

Lee440:

It was interesting to read in MacD37's post about dropping a Cape buffalo with one shot. I read somewheres in African literature about a PH who wrote that he had sometimes turned a Cape buffalo aside in a charge (where the buff was 30 feet away) - and had never made a buff flinch under much bigger bores. I have always supposed that it was because the 375 had terrific penetration. Just my thoughts.

lee

I've shot buffalo with all 3 calibers although my 458 is a WM. the 500gr. bullet just hits harder which is particularly comforting when hunting in heavy cover which is where you'll find the buffalo in a lot of Masailand.

On the other hand if you chose to take only your 375 it would be fine for everything. There is no worry about your PH finshing your buffalo if you hit it right the first time with a 375. A good soft point where he lives and you'll have your buffalo.

I shot 2 with a 375 and one ran 75 yards with a heart shot and piled up. The other with a through and through lung shot went about 20 feet and I put 2 solids up its backsides for insurance. The 375 works but I think it is important that the first shot be a good one with a soft point.

I shot a couple with a 416 but I don't think my experience means much because the PH insisted I use only solids and those 400gr. TBSH just zipped through those buff like a hot knife through butter. One buff actually had 14 holes because all 7 shots exited and he went 500 yards before I got him down.

The 458 just seems to turn the lights out sooner on buffalo or anything big. I just don't think there is any substitute for frontal area and bullet mass. My experinece with the 458 has been fairly boring as it has been either bang/flop or bang/short run/flop.

Personally when I go back to Masaialnd in '07 I'll be carrying my 458 and the trackers will take my 375. As MAC suggested this maybe the ultimate buffalo hunting combo. Any big bore can be substituted for my 458 but the idea is if you get a long shot or need more magnification you have it handy with your scoped 375 but you have a short range stopper in your hands for close range.

Mark

Mark

I would take the lott for buff with a 500 gr bullet loaded to 2250-2300 fps if it where my choice of rifles and my hunt. Your not recoil shy so use the biggest hammer.

I shot a buff with a .450 Rigby at basically the same ballistics that you would get in your Lott. It sat down and fell over . . . but we later figured out that I'd spined it. My partner shot another with an identical rifle, but because it was riled up from the first shot, took 7 more .450's and .416's to get it to stay down. The next trip he shot one with a .375 and it just stood there but with a second shot it laid down and died. I followed up with a buff using a hot-loaded .404 that had the same ballistics as the .416 and it got mad and charged me. What is to be learned from these limited experiences? 1. Shoot your buff before he knows you're there. 2. Break his back or neck. 3. Any of the rifles you own will work but if you are going 2x1, take the Lott so you can back up your buddy if things go south. That's the nice thing about hunting with a friend. Two backup rifles are better than one!

458 lott gets my vote

Lee440
Take the .375
It sounds as if you know it best... Shot placement always more important than caliber, and .375 easier to shoot well. Most of my cliennts that have used a .375 or 9.3 have had one shot kills. Big bores are only better for following wounded DG. If you do your part with 1st shot, which it sounds that you can do, no problm with .375

Only one Buffalo hunt to gain experience from, but my .416 Rem with 370 grain softs and solids worked perfectly for me. Good shooting.

One of my good friends said to me...
" When hunting DG, do you really want the minimum caliber in your hands if something goes wrong. "

I shot the Lott with a Barnes X he knew we were after him shot broadside at 45yds and in 11yds he was dead right there...
2250 fps chronoed

Mike

You can't go wrong with any of the three. On a side on heart/lung shot I really don't think you will see a significant difference in how quick it goes down. On a charge the bigger the better, assuming you can place your shot equally well with all three.

Since you have sentimental attachments to your 375 take it and go with confidence. I have a 375, 465 and a 458 Lott and have taken buff with all three. If I was going to Tanzania for buff and plains game I would take the 375 and a lighter rifle probably my 270 or my 300 H&H.

465H&H

Lee, If it were me I would take the rifle I was the most comfortable with. They will all do the job.

It sounds like you are real comfortable with your 375 H&H and the way you write about it, I don't think you'll feel right leaving it behind. I'd leave that 318 at home and then take the 375 and either of the big calibers you mentioned, whichever rifle fits you better and you are more comfortable with. Craig Boddington's recommended two rifle african battery is a 33/41 combo. I've only seen two buffalo shot, one with a 375 H&H and the other with my 416 Rigby. All I can tell you is they both took three shots, but the 416 seemed to "rock" my buff more than did the 375. As to the 375's ability as a "light rifle," I saw my friend to iron out a kudu at a measured 352 yards with his using 300gr Swift A Frames. jorge

Caliber and choice.....the eternal question???

But, I agree with Thornell take the rifle you can shoot the best..Practice and making the shot..Once I know how my rifle shoots at 100yds.
I have shot it at every range down to 5yds knowing in close where exactly is the bullet going...
Reading Will's 'book', he brings this up about knowing where the brain is and how the buf is holding his head..
Shooting and accuracy are what counts...

Mike

I appreciate all the replies. The poll is much closer than I would have thought. One thing I cannot do, is leave my Vickers .318 express at home! This rifle just about had to have been to Africa, or somebody liked to shoot it alot, as the bore shows the erosive effects of Cordite, but is brite and still shoots my handloads around 1-1/4". Plus, my wife will shoot a few head of plains game and I don't think she would be crazy about the .375! Call me a bit nostalgic, but if I can't come up with a DR in time, I may have to take the .375 and the .318, get out my pith helmet, locate a Safari jacket with cartridge loops on it, and practice my Stewart Granger accent don't you know! This safari planning is the most fun I've had with my clothes on in a long time! Everyone pretty much talked me out of the 3 gun route, which leaves the old Army&Navy .256 mannlicher behind, got to take something from 'Ol Blighty back over. I'll be looking forward to seeing some of you at Dallas in a couple of weeks, maybe I will have made up my mind by then! Thanks again, Lee.

Old Sarge, above posted, has and uses a .318 (and I just might rebarrel an FN...), I am certain he can give you great information about its use in Africa...but then, all the "famous old folks" used it and liked it, providing a bigger hammer was available for the other moments that needed it...by the way, Old Sarge is NOT one of the "famous old folks," although some might be tempted to use similar nouns and adjectives...Arthur Olds

If a guy is just going to shoot one buffalo, any of the legal calibers are fine. But if a person shoots lots of them, then the chances of a confrontation increase, making a larger caliber desirable. The PH who hunts a dozen or so buffalo per year will face unfavorable odds over time; hence the desire for a stopping cartridge.

quote:

This safari planning is the most fun I've had with my clothes on in a long time!

Right on Lee. While I have only taken 5 buff, two were with a 416 Rem Mag using 350 Swift A Frames.

The 350's were at 2605 fps which makes a great plains game load, and if you come face to face with mbogo, you can expect excellent results.

416 for me i want the rigby but the cost prohibits me buying it. ill be buying in 416 rem for buff. recoil isnt as bad as 458

Great Gadfrey! Yer can't leave the .318 behind; think how guilty you'd feel out there in the jess while the poor dear wept at home, what? That's an amazin' caliber, don'tcherknow, penetrates so far you'll never retrieve a bullet to examine. And as fer yer pith helmet, Tag Safari's is the place t'go. Three styles, no waitin'.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
If a guy is just going to shoot one buffalo, any of the legal calibers are fine. But if a person shoots lots of them, then the chances of a confrontation increase, making a larger caliber desirable. The PH who hunts a dozen or so buffalo per year will face unfavorable odds over time; hence the desire for a stopping cartridge.

I dont understand this logic of just use any legal caliber if only hunting one buffalo. Couldnt that one buffalo be the one who is pissed off at the world?
Just my thoughts.

Sounds to me that oyu would love to take both the 318 and the 375 and go traditional. I say do it. They will handle any game you are hunting and you will feel good about it.
Shoot well and you will have plenty of rifle, shoot poorly and none of them will be enough.

Jarrod:

I smiled on reading your post. Yeah, the particular buff may not have read the "book". You are from Kentucky. Some of our non American posters may not know the reputation of the early Kentuckians for knowing how to shoot ( besides developing some great early rifles and to which all Americans owe a debt) I like the post of Karl S (South Africa- Now why am I not surprised?) where he wrote: "Shot placement always more important than caliber and 375 easy to shoot well". That's my boy!

quote:

Originally posted by gerry375:
Jarrod:

You are from Kentucky. Some of our non American posters may not know the reputation of the early Kentuckians for knowing how to shoot (Besides developing some great early rifles and to which all Americans owe a debt) "Shot placement always more important than caliber and 375 easy to shoot well". That's my boy!

gerry375, If you are refering to the so-called "Kentucky Long Rifle", it was made famous by the Kentuckian riflemen of the frontier! However, for the benefite of our non-American friends, the rifle was not developed in Kentucky, but in Pennsylvania!

I agree, that most hunters in Kentucky, are shooters! I certainly would not worry with any one of them backing my play! My state owes a bag full to the Kentuckians who came to Texas, with their Pennsylvania rifles, to fight for our TEXAS indapendence, back in 1836!

I was once out on maneuvors is a particularly unpleasant part of the California woodlands and through the dust, a tall lanky young soldier approached me. Instead of the stupid, rotten "black rifle", he was carrying a scoped M14, muzzle down over his left shoulder. "Sniper?", I asked. "E-yup", came the reply and as he passed me I read his nametag. So help me, it said BOONE!

Mac:

Wow! Did you catch me out! Of course, you're right and the Kentuckians carried those great (smaller caliber rifles) developed by the Pennsylvania gunsmiths! ( I got fogged in by memory and thought Kentucky had developed its own rifles - but I should have remembered that Kentucky was "the dark and bloody ground" when we went west to take the country from the Indians - and Pennsylvania gunsmiths made the weapons to do it)

I smiled at reading about that certain fight in your neck of the woods where the Pennsylvania rifle helped out. (Actually it was the Tennesseans who helped out - the finest rifle shots of the day. Years later, the ad for Texas Ranger applicants was that they should be able to " ride like Comanches and shoot like Tennesseans") My mother's side of the family had some people who went west and settled in Texas in the 1850s. My father and I (both confirmed "dam yankees") never missed a chance to tell her an anti-Texas joke. Regards anyway.

Thanks for all the replies. At the end the poll surprised me, the .375 was left in the dust at the start, but had a resurgence at the end.