I may have missed a post as a I've been away. If so, I apologise. These have now been published in the Govt Gazette of 27 May, but as I understand it the date of commencement is still to be determined.

I hope that a great deal changes before then.

Not that I am qualified to provide an opinion, but as I read them...

Bullet weights and not caliber are now applicable to various categories of game

>35gr min up to rock hyrax ("dassie"), all rodents and feathered game - this implies no 32 or 33gr 22 LR, .17's and air rifles!
>50gr for gamer up to the size of springbok (so no 45gr Hornet for any on the tiny antelope.
>100gr thereafter up to impala, warthog, blesbuck, common reedbuck and nyala ewes (so don't bring 85gr TSX, 90gr Scirrocos or 85gr Hornady IB etc for your 243?!)
>130gr thereafter up to Black Wildebeest, Tsessebe, Nyala Bulls and hartebeest (so no 120gr 6.5's and where exactly do the .25's and 6.5mm's fit now anyway!)
>150gr thereafter up to Blue Wildebeest, Kudu, Gemsbok, Sable, Roan and Leopard.
>175gr up to Eland (excl lion and buff)
>250gr for larger up to buff and giraffe (meaning 250gr .33's and .35's would be legal?)
>300gr for larger - i.e. hippo and elephant (so 286gr 9.3 is illegal?!)
>For thick skinned game solids or monometal only - so as per their definition, croc, buff and hippo require solids (including buff in herds etc!?)

For handgun hunting the jump is from 35gr right up to 150gr! If you have a 270 Win handgun, and Encore or XP or JDJ shooting anything lighter than 150gr you can't hunt anything larger than rock hyrax!! The Springbok category is not referred to and the next jump is to 250gr for lion, buff, giraffe and 300gr for larger and including elephant, rhino and hippo.

Crazy stuff!

There are bow hunting requirements too which I cannot analyse as I know nothing about it (although it seems that the guys who drafter this knew little about hutnign with rifles and handguns too...

Can you post a link to the online copy?
JCHB

Nothing surprises me anymore.

The questions I have are:

1. What were they trying to fix?

2. Where do they find people that can dream up something like this?

Solids only on Buff...

It says solids only on "thick skinned" game. So, what do you call thick? It would obviously include Buffalo, Elephant, Hippo and Rhino. The skin on a Giraffe, though, is probably just as thick so I presume it should also include them.

Thick-skinned game or thick-skulled regulation writers?

Judge, you are so insightful!

>250gr for larger up to buff and giraffe (meaning 250gr .33's and .35's would be legal?)
>300gr for larger - i.e. hippo and elephant (so 286gr 9.3 is illegal?!)
>For thick skinned game solids or monometal only - so as per their definition, croc, buff and hippo require solids (including buff in herds etc!?)

That needs clarification:

Gilding/Copper-Clad Steel Jacketed FMJ "solid" with Round Nose or Flat Nose

Or a monometal SOLID, RN or FN ... but do the hollow point MONOMETAL, X-type, copper and brass bullets qualify for buffalo?

The .375-caliber/300-grain Walterhog could be illegal for buff in SA?

Tell me it ain't so!

Who let the Ape's get on the computer? Do any of these clown's know anything about cartridges? Obviously not.

According to this I can use my 9.5X57Mannlicher Schoenauer for Buffalo and even on hippo if I use a 300gr solid at 1800 fps!

I would also feel undergunned if I was shooting a porcupine (a rodent) with a .22 Rim fire.

I think this is a growing recognition of the quality of todays bullets, particularly the homogenous bullets. It's better to have a client shooting a 9.3X62 with a 250 grain TSX that he can shoot than a .416 Rigby that he can't. Todays homogenous bullets are a quantum leap in bullet technology.

Upon reading the "Norms & Standards for Hunting Methods in South Africa" are they really that surprising?

In Michigan & Georgia you can use a 50 grain bullet to hunt deer ie., .22 centerfire rifle.

In Tennessee you can use a 25 grain bullet to hunt deer, ie., any centerfire rifle ammo.

The above referenced Norms & Standards call for 100 grain bullet ie., a 6 mm caliber for impala, warthog, blesbuk (equivalent to a deer ?)

I think it is more a recognition that the politicians and bureaucrats cannot affect the real problems facing the country, so will instead turn their attention to petty things that they can. Just look at all the rubbish they come out with in California...

"don't fix what ain't bust!"

"When hunting thick-skinned animals the bullet must be of full metal jacket or monolithic solid construction." This means to me that Failsafes, MRXs, and other full metal jacketed bullets would be legal for buffalo, if 250 grs. or more. Both the Failsafes and MRXs have a lead or lead-like core surrounded by a full metal jacket, which merges with a expanding monolithic metal front. Would the the TSX be illegal? AIU

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
The questions I have are:

1. What were they trying to fix?

2. Where do they find people that can dream up something like this?

Replies to your valid questions:
(1) They are trying to fix the general public preception that they are a bunch of total idiots.
(2) From the ranks of the ANCYL there are scores of idiots lining up to take up senior government possitions as soon as Julius Malema has been made president [for life?] of this [nowadays]banana republic! They think out crap like this to make the most favorable impression on Mr. Malema, who thinks this is real rocket science and much better than the proven system of energy and calibre requirements by other backwards African nations and the stupid European nations.

In good legal hunting of elephants with your muzzle loader firing a 300 grain solid lead bullet [monolithic that is ] at 300 ft/sec!

Koffin Fudiots!

Andrew McLaren

I thought our present Government were bad. Looks like it could be worse

Does this apply to culling....some culling is obviously needed....

and the stupid European nations.
explain andrew....?

And how would they enforce this, I wonder??

Not too much of hoora to make about this boys and gals.....

quote:

Originally posted by donner:
and the stupid European nations.
explain andrew....?

I'm thinking it's sarcasm.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:

quote:

Originally posted by donner:
and the stupid European nations.
explain andrew....?

I'm thinking it's sarcasm.

Spot on! At least an attempt at it!

Andrew McLaren.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
I thought our present Government were bad. Looks like it could be worse

Mate, you haven't a friggen clue. "Cause and effect" has yet to be discovered. "Third dimensional forethought" is some smart arse white bastard trying to make the ruling mob look stupid. Not only are a lot of them are born stupid, a fair wack of the mob actually work hard at lowering their own standards.

Just heard that this "new legislation" has been put on ice, until they have heard the arguments from "our" representatives here in South Africa. I'm pretty sure that it will be scrapped.

Best Regards
Marius Goosen

I do not know about that Marius.According to Government Notice No 456, dated May 27, 2011, the Minister has signed the legislation and the date of implementation will be gazetted in the near future.

so no more provincial rules ?

quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:
I do not know about that Marius.According to Government Notice No 456, dated May 27, 2011, the Minister has signed the legislation and the date of implementation will be gazetted in the near future.

Scriptus, heard it from a guy who attended a training course at the SAJWV buildings in PTA on Friday. The whole process has been stopped and will be discussed first. Im sure Martin Hood,Phasa,SAJWV and the guys that carry weight regarding firearm issues in this country will speak some sense into them. They got them to listen regarding the firearm licencing procedures and Act, didn't they? Have a little faith. It will be fine.

quote:

Originally posted by KMG Hunting Safaris:

quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:
I do not know about that Marius.According to Government Notice No 456, dated May 27, 2011, the Minister has signed the legislation and the date of implementation will be gazetted in the near future.

Scriptus, heard it from a guy who attended a training course at the SAJWV buildings in PTA on Friday. The whole process has been stopped and will be discussed first. Im sure Martin Hood,Phasa,SAJWV and the guys that carry weight regarding firearm issues in this country will speak some sense into them. They got them to listen regarding the firearm licencing procedures and Act, didn't they? Have a little faith. It will be fine.

Have a look at the thread that I have posted with a link to the legislation. If one checks the legislation out, it is not a bad deal.

Scriptus,
I agree with you. Its not a bad deal. But where has legislation meant anything in this country? The fact that it has been gazetted does not mean much and the fact is that discussions will still follow and the whole scenario will be re-evaluated. Some changes are still needed though. Basically, your standard bullet weight in .270 Win will no longer be sufficient for Kudu, where it use to be acceptable with minimum calibre being 7mm. What about a guy shooting 130 gr TSX from his .308 and using it on Kudu?
Think they just need to fine tune a bit. Also, how do they plan on enforcing this?
Maybe they should look at the minimum energy route?

quote:

Who let the Ape's get on the computer? Do any of these clown's know anything about cartridges? Obviously not.

quote:

Originally posted by KMG Hunting Safaris:
Scriptus,
I agree with you. Its not a bad deal. But where has legislation meant anything in this country? The fact that it has been gazetted does not mean much and the fact is that discussions will still follow and the whole scenario will be re-evaluated. Some changes are still needed though. Basically, your standard bullet weight in .270 Win will no longer be sufficient for Kudu, where it use to be acceptable with minimum calibre being 7mm. What about a guy shooting 130 gr TSX from his .308 and using it on Kudu?
Think they just need to fine tune a bit. Also, how do they plan on enforcing this?
Maybe they should look at the minimum energy route?

Do not go that route, you will only cause more confusion. When they are confused, they get angry, then God only knows what the result will be.

My connection is too slow to download the document at the moment but can someone take a look and see what it says about shotguns and birds please?

I get an idea shotguns aren't even mentioned and of so, does that mean that we suddenly no longer have a wingshooting industry or that we're now expected to shoot doves in flight with rucking fifles?

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
My connection is too slow to download the document at the moment but can someone take a look and see what it says about shotguns and birds please?

I get an idea shotguns aren't even mentioned and of so, does that mean that we suddenly no longer have a wingshooting industry or that we're now expected to shoot doves in flight with rucking fifles?

Shotguns ?? WOTS THAT ?? or WEAR THE FOX HAT !!
Nah mate. Traditional throwing sticks,"catties" and so on. Besides, why is an old "gram-pah" worried about this stuff anyways?

I might be a (newly initiated) Grandfather now (and very proud to be so) but I'll have you know I still enjoy a bit of a workout with the old 12 gauge.



Not that I can hit much with it mind you!

This post applies more to Zimbabwe than South Africa, but has any game scout ever even looked at your ammunition/rifles, much less actually picked them up and checked the head stamps? In a bed and breakfast on my way in the last time, I spent an evening with a fellow who allowed as how he was going to shoot a buffalo with some outfit (the name of which I have forgotten) His only gun was a .338 Win Mag. I asked about the legality of that and he said he had hunted with the safari company/PH before and that they would allow him to use this essentially illegal caliber. When I got to Zim and met the game scout I monitored his actions during the course of the 18-day hunt and as near as I could tell he never checked my rifles or ammo (both legal by the way)Of course he could have pulled either of them out of the cases and checked them in the back of the cruiser but I never noticed him doing that either. Based on that experience I would suspect that the fellow knew what he was talking about and that a client could probably have hunted with anything he chose to as long as the PH didn't care. I personally doubt if the game scout could wade through the regs and know if a .338 met the minimum criteria or not.