The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting So which bullets have I left out?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I'm headed over for a PG hunt in the Eastern Cape next year. I'll be taking my Ruger Mark II 300 Win Mag loaded with 180 grain Nosler partitions. As my second rifle, I'll be taking over the Ruger Mark II 7mm-08. With this rifle, I'm planning to us on the smaller species on the ole wish list: springbok, mountain reedbok, blesbok, cape bushbuck, cape grysbok, plus any small extras. Plus, if something were to go wrong with the 300, I could still use the 7-08 on kudu and black wildebeest, within limits. I don't have a load developed for this rifle yet, so I've ordered just about every premium bullet I can think of to try out at the moment. Here is what I have, or have ordered, at the moment: 140 grain Nosler Accubonds 140 grain Nosler Partitions 140 grain North Fork 140 grain Woodleigh Protected Round Points 150 grain Swift Scirocco II 140 grain Swift A-frame 156 grain Norma Oryx 140 grain Barnes TTSX So, what am I missing? I didn't vary that much with bullet weight, yet. When I originally bought this rifle, it seemed to like 140 grain factory bullets better then the 150s I tried. I thought if I found a couple promising bullets, I could then go back and look into varying the weight of said bullet to fine tune things a bit. Thanks, Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | ||
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That's alot of different bullets, lots of money. I generally start with the bullet I want to use, generally a Barnes TSX(I don't think the tipped version is needed) and work up a load. Only if that didn't work would I order other bullets. Often one box isn't really enough to work up a load, two boxes of each of the ordered would cost about $500 before the North Fork's and Woodleighs which aren't available in Canada. Of the $500 you probably will never use the ones after your first choice, thus wasting $400 or so. Decide what you want to run and move out from there. | |||
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Maybe some 150gr Nosler E-Tips. Just picked up a box to try in my 7x57. Jeff | |||
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If you weren't using it as a backup gun for kudu and black wildebeest, I would say you should try 140 grain Ballistic Tips. I've used both 140 grain Ballistic Tips and 140 grain Accubonds in my .280 Ackley, and I've found the Ballistic Tips tend to kill a little faster (as in immediately), given identical shot placement. In my experience, both bullets exit almost every time on whitetails, mule deer, and hogs, but the BTs leave a bigger wound channel. And the .280 Ackley is shooting about 300 fps faster than the average 7mm-08, so the Ballistic Tip may be an even better choice for your gun. Perhaps a Partition would create a similar wound channel with its flimsy front jacket, but still give you penetration for the larger stuff. The other bullets on your list seem likely to zip on through without much tissue damage, just like the Accubonds. As I'm sure you know, accuracy with both BTs and Accubonds is typically wonderful -- but I don't imagine you'll be shooting at ranges where an inch or so of group difference will matter. | |||
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Don't use a ballistic tip in 7mm08 on anything larger than whitetails and keep them off heavy bone. They are very accurate but for years of shooting them I know they can violently expand on broadside shoots and on heavy bone they explode. For deer that is fine and I don't make a practice of taking shots that will encounter heavy bone. Accubonds are nearly as accurate but they stay together better but will still open up on smaller critters. The barnes is the only bullet my 7mm08 does not like. Also with the 140 grain tipped you are going to eat up a lot of powder space dimensionally thet are more like 160 grain bullet. In turn your velocities are going to be down. All this said you cannot go wrong with a nosler partition. | |||
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I guess I'm confused. Where are the 160 gr. Nosler Partitions? Or why not just shoot everything with the 300? Take two 300's? ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Yeah, it is a lot of different bullets and going to be fun shooting between now and August. Yeah, it is alot of money, but in the grand scheme of a safari really not that much! I know what I'd prefer to shoot, but I don't know what my rifle prefers to shoot, hence all the different bullets. Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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No confusion Will, I just haven't picked up any 160 grainers yet. Shooting everything with the 300 is always a possibility, but I'd prefer taking a second rifle in the event Murphy decides to go on safari with me! I hope he decides to just sit this one out and stay home! Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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After several trips I concluded one rifle with two scopes was a reasonable solution. For plains game I take a 300 Win with two scopes sighted in and a spare firing pin assembly. If something is probably going to fail, I'll bet it is your scope. Try the 140 Accubonds first in your 7/08 then you can return or sell the others. I shoot them in my 300 as well as my 280 and have had excellent results with extreme accuracy. Have fun preparing for your hunt! | |||
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The accubonds will perform well. Our shop brought back the whole line of African plains game with it in a 7-08. Most were on shot kills. | |||
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You haven't left any out. My assumption is that you are striving for accuracy with a premium bullet hence all the different brands. Variances in accuracy are likely to come from different bullet weights. So you may wish to consider few brands and vary bullet weight. Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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geeez - you've spent more on bullets than the rifle | |||
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Hornady Interbond perhaps? Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
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mike7mm08, did your bad experiences with Ballistic Tips happen years ago? I recall Nosler making the big game BTs significantly tougher at some point, years before the bonded core Accubond came out. I've not seen a BT blow up in many, many years, and I've shot and watched others shoot a lot of animals with them from many different angles (granted, no Texas heart shots), all with 7mm guns (my .280 AI, my 7mm-08, my dad's .280 Rem, and my dad's 7mm Rem Mag). I've also seen lots of low damage pass-throughs with Accubonds, both at 140 grains in my .280 AI and at 160 grains in my close friend's 7mm STW (he actually prefers Sierra Game Kings -- really explosive stuff -- for sheep, ibex, and roe deer in Kyrgyzstan, where he keeps a home). Accubonds are great bullets, but I don't think they'll be quite as effective on the little guys Graybird is looking to hunt. For me, the difference on deer has been "hand of God" collapses with BTs but a little running (30 yards max) with Accubonds, with heart/lung shots in either case. But a one shot kill is a one shot kill, I guess, and my experience may not be the same as everyone else's. Perhaps another option to consider is a heavier non-bonded core bullet, like a BT or a Hornady SST -- maybe 150 grains or even 160, as Will suggests. Will, isn't there a rule against taking two guns of the same caliber to RSA? | |||
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Yeah, I think you're right. Good point. I'd like to meet the brain trust that came up with that one. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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My $0.02: First, take all those bullets to the gun show and sell 'em. Second, buy 200 or so of the cheapest 7mm bullets you can find and practice shooting them. The skills are transferrable. Don't shoot 'em from the bench. Get up on your hind legs and shoot like a man. Next, take your .300 with the 180 grain Partitions on your trip. If you must take a second rifle, get some partitions or whatever you like and sight in in the US. Any group of 2" or so is fine and trying to find the absolute best off the bench is a total waste of your time and money. Also, none of the animals you are going to hunt is particularly difficult to kill. I would not take a second rifle. I would ask the PH whet kind you might borrow in case yours is lost. In general he will have a good one available. Indy Life is short. Hunt hard. | |||
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I would not call what has happened a problem and it has happened recently. The performance is great. But I would be hesitant to use them on heavy boned animals is all. The will easily punch both shoulders and keep going. But I find the a large portion of the bullet in fragment form throughout the wound channel. Deer usually never take a step. I would be concerned with tendency of the bullet to fragment that larger bone may prevent penetration. I agree the accubond is not the best bullet for smaller critters. But in this case Graybird may need the 7mm08 to do it all I don't think it will with the ballistictips. Stepping up in weight with ballistic tips is an option but in my experience you start losing velocity very quickly once you go over 140 in the 7mm08. If they shoot I think a barnes would be the best choice. They open up on most anything yet they stay together. | |||
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If they are accurate in your rifle, all you need is either the A Frame or the TSX. Forget everything else. | |||
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I agree Will, that is the dumbest rule I've seen anyplace as of today. That is what I did for several years. I had three double rifles, and three Ruger No1s with three pairs each pair chambered for the same cartridge. I carried my double, and let a tracker carry the unloaded scoped No1. A very good set-up that guranteed no matter which rifle was lost, broken, or just not right for the shot at hand I always had the right ammo, and/or the rifle type of rifle! This would be much easier today with the Ruger No1 being factory chambered for the NE cartridges, but not in RSA! ......................DUMB!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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I've helped load 150 gr corloks for 7/08's that have now taken 3 moose with 3 shots for local lady hunters. Seems like it's where they're placed is more important then what your using at 7/08 speeds. | |||
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Core locts aren't African bullets. You need a tough bullet. I used 160 A Frames in my 7mm Rem mag in 2005 and had sterling results. I use them in my .375 as well. And I'm working up A Frame loads for my .458. They work. I can't recommend that bullet too much. It performs. | |||
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Send all the bullets back except the Barnes TSX 140's. If you must use the 7mm-08 those will work just fine and will probably be very accurate in your rifle. I hunt, not to kill, but in order not to have played golf.... DRSS | |||
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Naver been able to come up with an accurate handload using TSX's. The factory Federal 160 grain 7mm Rem will shoot a dime sized group in my Dakota, so that's what I use. Saves a lot of time screweing around on the bench. The Browning A Bolt shoots 139 gr Interlocks very well, but that's not an African bullet. It shoots one hole groups with factory Remington 160 A Frames, but Remington in their ultimate wisdom stopped loading it. I have about ten boxes, though. That Browning with the 160 A Frames has proven to be a deadly African combination. As I said, I would try TSX's and A Frames and find out which one shoots accurately and completely discard the rest. The Partition has proved itself over the years and is a great bullet, but in Africa, the A Frame and the TSX eclipse it. They shine. | |||
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That's funny, of all the rifles I've loaded TSX's for only one of them wasn't ridiculously accurate. To each his own. | |||
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That Dakota has been a major pain in my ass. Some reload because they want tiny groups that aren't available from factory ammo. Some reload because they are alchemists at heart. I reload both for accuracy and to save money. I don't shoot my hunting rifles very much. I'll run a couple of hundred rounds through them before season, but I normally put them in the safe during the off season. So shooting factory loads makes sense to me, if I can't equal the accuracy with a handload. TSX bullets aren't any more or less accurate than Hornadys or Swifts or Noslers, from what I've found. That Dakota is persnickity. It likes that load so that's what I shoot in it. No mystery there. | |||
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Based on your selections and the intended game, I like the Accu-bond first, and the TSX bullet second! Quite frankly though, dead is dead and I am sure they will all get that result. Good luck man, hope all goes well. | |||
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I would shoot the TSX's out of both rifles. 180's out of the 300winny and it will crush all from any angle. The 7mm08 a 140 will take care of all desired. They are different caliber 30 and 7mm. Mike | |||
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I like the 154 grn hornadys. My god a cup and core bullet. That bullet is well suited for the 7mm-08 velocities. I would only pick the 154 grn hornady if I couldn't get satisfactory accuracy with the other bullets. I like to think of the hornady interlok as the premium of the non premiums. Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I will second the 154 gr Hornady fan club. Load them down to 2400 fps. Good up to and including Blue WB ... ask my son! Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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I am mostly curious how much time you have to put in on this exercise? It takes at least one three shot group per powder charge, and weight change. Times ten bullets, time ten three shot groups per, times six powders per bullet, times four types of primers, oops, five if you try the Wolfe, then you can play with seating depth. I had a .308 Win that went from 3/8ths groups to under 2/10ths of an inch by varying seating depth .030". By time you get your "perfect load" you will need a new barrel, eh? Even using the "Ladder" method is a month to six weeks at three hours a day. Rich Rich | |||
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150grs Rhino Solid Shank. Lapua Naturalis if you can find them in the U.S. Don't forget to let us know about the results! I've been doing a similar kind of exercise in my 8mm, albeit w/ a smaller bullet selection. I also tried out the Sierra GameKings. Maybe not "premium" as they're "only" cup and core, but they seem to have a good reputation nevertheless. -Lars/Finland A.k.a. Bwana One-Shot | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting So which bullets have I left out?
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