I have finally broken down and decided to have a new rifle to be built by Roger Biesen. His father Al Biesen, (91 years old)will put his mark on it by doing some of the inletting. Paula Biesen who is outstanding engraver will do the engraving. So, I will three generations of rifle builders put their mark on this rifle. I visited with them last week when I was in Spokane, Wash. The wood will be a piece of French Walnut, I have had for some 20 plus years. I have had four rifles built by Al in 375 H&H, 35 whelen, 300 H&H and .270 win. Now I am trying to decide what the cal. it is going to be. I have used all four of the above rifles in Africa one time or another. This rifle when completed will go to africa with me. So fellows give me an idea what cal. would be your favorite if you were going to have one built for your next hunt.

With the calibers you have already you pretty much got everything covered. But I'd consider a 257 Roberts or a 250-3000.

The .416 Rigby - Nice Classic - Plains Game 340 Weatherby. For sure the Biesens will make it right.

Good luck,
Roland

Is your action (and the stock blank) suitable for a .404 Jeffery?

While not a DG rifle, I've had the joy of an Al Biesen gun and they are true works of art. Like some beautiful women in my life, someone wanted it more than I could justify and now its gone. Alas!

I'd think a .404 would retain value, be infinitely useful and would be a great item to leave me in your will. Load it from classic loads to 2450 f.p.s. or so and you have an African wonder.

No doubt about it, .458 Lott will be perfect as the next addition to your custom rifle battery.

I like to believe my next rifle will be a 416 Rigby but alas being left handed and a heavy preference for a tang safety, who knows.

A .458 Lott or a .325 WSM would be my picks for another African Rifle not covered by your current arsenal.

ABSOLUTELY .458 LOTT.

NEAR ENDLESS BULLET DIVERSITY.

If you want something less common, use

the .375 H&H brass at full length opened

up to shoot the .410 diameter, 385 - 400

grain G S Custom solid and expanding bul-

lets. Take this new rifle and your 375 H&H

to Africa and that's that. You can load 210

grain pistol .410's up through the heavies.

I am going to go with the good Judge and vote for the .404 Jeffery. What a great all round cartridge.

I like the grand old .404 Jeffrey too. Now even better with the availability of Hornady ammo! But don't forget the .416 Remington! The Rigby is a bit more romantic but the .416 Remington will work in a standard magnum Winnie action... food for thought. Darn I wish I were planning the project.

I wouold go to the bigger sode of things.416Rem, 404J, or a 458 Lott. You have everything else covered pretty well. It wouold also "complete you collectioon of Biesen funs.

There is nothing wrong with ant of the 40+ chamberings mentioned above.

If you can handel the recoil, go with the Lott. If not, then 416Rem or 404J.

Keith

Judge G

It is a shame you gave up that rifle. I could never give up my Biesen rifles. He would do something special with each rifle he built for me. I have known Al For over 30 years and visited his shop weekly when I lived in Spokane. The stories that man could tell about Jack O'Conner and various others who had rifles built by Al. Most people did not know but Al Biesen was quite a hunter himself. He had been to Zimbabwe, S. Africa, Alsska and many other places. He often traded a rifle for hunt. I had the pleasure of hunting with him in Alaska on caribou hunt with his sons Don and Roger.

I like the idea of 404 Jeffery.

Brooks,

I will differ a bit from the suggestions made by others. I think you need a "Do you want me to shoot it in the left eye or the right eye?" type of accurate .22 centerfire for those far shots at black backed jackall and other varmints!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

I will pick out of two choices depending if you are going to do DG hunting or normal plainsgame.

First choice the bigger caliber the plain old .458 win mag. The second one would be the 338 win mag in my opinion with 225gr bullets the best plainsgame rifle around.

another vote for the 404 Jeffery

quote:

Originally posted by Brooks Carmichael:
Judge G

It is a shame you gave up that rifle. I could never give up my Biesen rifles. He would do something special with each rifle he built for me. I have known Al For over 30 years and visited his shop weekly when I lived in Spokane. The stories that man could tell about Jack O'Conner and various others who had rifles built by Al. Most people did not know but Al Biesen was quite a hunter himself. He had been to Zimbabwe, S. Africa, Alsska and many other places. He often traded a rifle for hunt. I had the pleasure of hunting with him in Alaska on caribou hunt with his sons Don and Roger.

I like the idea of 404 Jeffery.

Whatever you decide, can you start a thread and keep us posted on the progress? Pictures of the stock blank, inletting, checkering work, barrel installation, sight selection, etc. I think that a lot of us would like to see the gun "grow"... and if the Biesens so agree, maybe even the shop, etc. too.

Brooks,

Thanks for some of your insight into the Biesens history. As the Judge suggested, it would be great to hear more and to see the development of your rifle.

I have two Al Biesen rifles. One is the 270 of course. It is a pleasure to hold and is as accurate as anyone would ever hope.

The other is now a 458 Lott. It was a 458 WM built by Al. I hunted it that way for years then decided to convert it to the Lott.

I sent it back last year to Roger who did the conversion and also checked it over and did some cosmetic stuff. Then without charge he installed a grip cap engraved with my initials by Paula. So as you say, it is rather special in my mind to have a rifle that all three worked on.

Given the calibers you now have I would think the Lott would be the logical choice unless you are a double rifle shooter. In that case, you would not likely use the Lott.

The 404 would seem to be too close to the 375.

On the other hand maybe you should just round out your collection while Al is still working and get both the 404 and 458 Lott.

.404 Jeffery! A rifle using this cartridge can be built on a standard length Mauser action [Jefferys built hundreds], without the extreme opening-up needed for a .416, or the lengthening for a .375. Look for an original commercial action, or an Argentine will do.

Best of luck, SXS

Against all the reccomendations for bigger why not go with the 7X57. It is the quintessential African small caliber that will handle well most of the game shot in Africa. A Beisen light 7X57 would be something to long for. I have commissioned but two rifles to be built in my lifetime, one a 257 Roberts and the other ,and first one of the 2,a 7X57. The 7X57 has aquitted itself admirably on game up thru Wildebeest in Africa. The only reason it has not taken Eland and other larger game is I didn't have the opportunity.

I agree with Andrew, say a 22-250.

I too sold my Al Beisen stocked rifle( was not made for me) and regret it.

Your current battery seems to have everything covered except the very large and very small.

You seem to be interested in the classic calibres.

On the large end a classic would be a 505 Gibbs or 500 Jeff, the smaller end a 240 H&H or 22 Hornet.

Then again who could live without classics like the 318WR, 7x57, 6.5x54 MS and of course the 404.

You might ask Al's choice for size according to the blank and action.

458 lott you don't have a stopper. 416 rigby would be a classic,the lott more practial and cheeper to shot. The 270 with solids will cover the small stuff. Small bores would be easier to pick up at a later time in the used market.
You have a fine collection.

JD

I just recently talked to Roger(he is working on a few projects for me) and he seems to be on a 404 kick. That being said, I would go with a little bigger for you battery. The lott has is advantages, or a 416 Rem as it will fit the same action. Now don't give him too much work as I would like to get mine done soon

Going to Africa? Already a .300 H&H and a .375 H&H?

.404 Jeffery.

Can't see any more classic round that would fit in the progression...

Irregardless of what you already have.
Here would be the choices I would fight with.
7X57
358 Norma
404J
458 Lott

Given the rifles you already have, what you build next should depend on the African game you will be after.

You already have rifles suitable for nearly everything, so IMHO it would make the most sense for you to go big, or go small.

If you are planning to hunt elephant, hippo on land or Cape buffalo, you should consider building a true big bore, such as a .458 Lott or .450 Rigby or .460 Weatherby Mag. (or even bigger, say, up to a .500, if you want and can handle it).

If those truly big species are not on your list, however, then your .375 is really as big a rifle as you will ever need.

In that case, I think you should consider a .243 or .25-06. Either of those would nicely round out your battery on the smaller end of the spectrum.

Al has built for me two 270s and a 375H&H while Roger built a 458 Lott for me. You have a great array of classic calibers now and since the Biesen's build classic rifles, I would go with two more classic calibers. A 7X57 and 404 J would fill your armory out very classily!

465H&H

7X57 or .404J. Some things just stand the test of time.
kh

404 Jeff or 458 Lott if you're looking for versatility and a higher high end (in terms of power) rifle. I'd go with the jeff though.

Considering what you already have.

(Talk about a good investment!)

I would opt for the 416 Rigby or 458 Lott.

20 years from now you will know you made the right decision.

And good on you for hunting with these fine rifles.

Andy

404

You'll like it.

I have a .375 H&H that Roger built for me in 2007 and am trying to decide whether I want my next one to bigger or smaller. I will probably end up with a .264 WM (sentimental reasons), but it looks like you already have the "smaller" so I would probably go with the .416 Remington.

Regardless of your choice it will be one helluva gun.

Regards,

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kevin henderson:
7X57 or .404J. Some things just stand the test of time.


Well said Kevin. The perfect pairing for Africa.

Von Gruff.

Fellow AR members

I still have not made of my mind as to what caliber. But, I have narrowed it down. Because I am a fan of classic calibers. It has come down to a dangerous game caliber and one of smaller caliber. I have to make up mind soon. It will be either a 416 Rigby or 7x57. Both are fantastic calibers. I am leaning towards the 416 Rigby. Both calibers have been around for years and have been hard to improve on. I have contacted Roger and Paula Biesen and have asked them to take photo's of the wood and then as it progresses to the finished product (work of art), have them email me the photo's. I will then figure out on to post them. All your suggestions have been great.