The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Clients proposing offers on safaris to outfittersGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Clients proposing offers on safaris to outfitters | Login/Join |
One of Us |
In my world, business is business and supply and demand are just that. So, what is wrong with clients making offers to safari companies on what they are willing to pay for a safari? Lets face it, we are all in this as the worlds economy makes business a challenge. I propose this, why shouldnt a client make an offer to a safari firm along these lines.... I am willing to pay X for a 10 day X hunt for X amount... this is what I have and can afford to pay. I have clients in my business making this offer regularly and I have to look at each offer and say, yes I can or no I cant. Gentleman/Ladies, the world we live in is a buyers market rght now. I am curious as to others thoughts. | ||
|
One of Us |
Rob, There is no problem with that. Booking agents are the perfect mechanism for that. You should fell comfortable calling a booking agent and saying..."this is what I am willing to pay, got any takers?" Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
one of us |
Rob That is no problem at all, it is the converse of an outfitter saying this is what price they are asking. Sometimes we have clients whom might say they want to hunt but they are not wanting to pay the price on offer, I then say straight out, tell me the price you are prepared to pay. It works in many businesses, realestate for example, where a seller will ask his price BUT might in fact consider and accept a lower bid It is just another form of haggling over the price, one or other party will accept or reject, that is fair business practice This TOPIC actually might be an opportunity for AR management to CONSIDER a category called HUNT AUCTIONS ... Outfitters could then (post a hunt opportunity) with potential clients bidding on the offer. It could be a mini ebay or trademe scenario, I believe it could work quite well. The only stipulation would be that hunts and offers are posted legally under boni fide names and not quasi type handles. Given some thought I believe it can be achieved without too much heavy legalise Cheers, Peter | |||
|
one of us |
Nothing wrong with that. I do not mind one bit if someone puts an offer to me. If I can make it work, I will. In fact, it is in my best interest to make it work. I have presented two offers to two different safari operators in the last two days. One of the offers was my idea, because I knew there was an opportunity there that he didn't know existed. They were both reasonable offers, so I was happy to do it. All of these guys are business men. They will only turn down an offer if it is not profitable to them, or if they believe demand is sufficient enough to sell at full rate or at a higher rate. If someone turns down your offer, just understand it is not personal, it is just business and there are financial reasons behind rejecting the offer. It helps to have a grasp of the economics of the specific safari industry that you are dealing with (country and type of concession). | |||
|
| One of Us |
Wendell, In a real estate offer/counter-offer proposal, the buyer knows what the property is (through inspection). In offering for a hunt, why would not the PH (presumably reputable and a good business person) simply downgrade the animals if the offer were lower than his usual posted prices, saving the better trophies for clients paying full price? thanks | |||
|
one of us |
Wendell is right, a proposal is just that. the parties have the right to accept or refuse or negotiate further. If it still makes business sense, we will entertain any proposal. Interested, hunting is just that, and sometimes Diana smiles, and sometimes she does'nt. the only times where there is a limitation on trophy expectations is as per agreement (eg. cull hunt) or where the landowner imposes a sliding scale on horn length in which case the hunter may impose his/her own limitation. Harris Safaris PO Box 853 Gillitts RSA 3603 www.southernafricansafaris.co.za https://www.facebook.com/pages...=aymt_homepage_panel "There is something about safari life that makes you forget all your sorrows and feel as if you had drunk half a bottle of champagne." - Karen Blixen, | |||
|
| One of Us |
I feel this is nothing new but something booking agents and Ph's will start to see more often. As a taxidermist this is something I deal with on just about every safari that comes in for mounting. | |||
|
One of Us |
If it is the buyers market OK, all the offers that I have seen, is that there are no hunts available, the price is this and the hunters did payed the price, If it is some lisences left over, sell it too the highest bidder, then it`s work well. Is there any who knows if there are som buff hunts left over or canselled this year, can I get this hunt for let`s say 5000USD? I don`t think so, or how much is the marked willing to pay for a 10 days buff hunt? In my sadness I can`t afford to pay about 10K for a buff hunt, even that I`m a Norwegian. I`m know for sure that the outfitter also shall live of this business, He also have to pay for the consessions. Salesagent Africa hunting | |||
|
| One of Us |
| |||
|
| One of Us |
Personally I would like a lot more clients to do it - rather than slink away and book a cheaper hunt elsewhere. Some of my best clients are people who have been upfront and told me what their budget really is or fessed-up and told me they were going to book elsewhere on price. Often I will throw in a few extras to fill a hunt or date that I really want to book. Communication is the key... A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
|
| One of Us |
WENDELL AND I HAVE DONE THIS A COUPLE OF TIMES. JUST LAST SEPT I OFFERED HIM A PRICE ON A ELE. HUNT. I FINALLY GOT IT. GREAT DEAL FOR ME, HUNTING COMPANY GOT THE QUOTA SHOT WENDELL MADE A LITTLE MONEY. I THINK YOUR CRAZY NOT TO OFFER SOMETHING BELOW WHAT THEY ARE ASKING IN THE MARKET. NRA LIFE MEMBER DU DIAMOND SPONSOR IN PERPETUITY DALLAS SAFARI CLUB LIFE MEMBER SCI FOUNDATION MEMBER | |||
|
One of Us |
I have heard of HO letting the client pay all the expenses of the hunt and only charging a profesional fee it only works when every body is serious about the hunt and everything is transparent Business is business sometimes i wish farm owners will understand that they will rather let animals die than drop the price "Buy land they have stopped making it"- Mark Twain | |||
|
| one of us |
"Saving better animals for better clients" is a myth, especially in a free range environment, or even a very large fenced property. For all practical purposes, if it is anything close to fair chase, it can not be done, unless the operator is hunting in a small cross fenced ranch, in which case, you were screwed from the moment you chose this operator. It is not something that is a valid concern. It is not in the operators best interest to provide a sub-par experience. | |||
|
| one of us |
All of the above is fine as long as the client understands in most cases if he pays less he will get less. Your not comparing prices here on a 3 different second hand Chevys. Your talking about a safari which has innumerable variables from one hunt to the next. Trying to pick a particular safari whether it be plains game, buff, ele or whatever primarily by price is a very bad idea. I'd much rather tell a prospective client that he needs to save his money for another year and book a quality safari than book them a half baked hunt. I know I'm not popular because I've been saying that the big discounts are not coming and I still say that as I have not seen it. What I am seeing is a willingness on the part of HO's to deal a little on the other costs besides daily fees and trophy fees. Some will also shorten a hunt which is nice except if you shorten a 15 day ele to 10 days it may be more affordable but you in fact get 2/3 of a hunt. SO if you guys buy a cheap hunt really look at what is being offered. Is it really comparable to a more expensive hunt and at the end of the day are you going to be asking yourself if you got the expereince you wanted. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
|
| one of us |
Our negotiations usually go like this ... Jeff: I will only pay $XXXX for this hunt. Me: Jeff, at that rate, we should just have the ph pay you to come hunt! Jeff: Do you think he would do that? Me: Jeff, you are drinking way too much this early in the morning, call me when you wake up from your dreamland. Jeff: No, really, that is it. Forget it, I think I am not going hunting this year. Me: Whatever ... we are not done with this. You might as well pack your bags. Jeff: Business is bad, I just had to pay for this and this and I don't know if I want to go shoot another (Insert animal). Me: Cry me a river. What else are you going to do with your money, save it? Whatever! This is repeated about 784 times before the deal is done. It usually involves a bunch of insults, backhanded compliments, off-color jokes, and accusations. Sometimes, he pays full rate, without giving me any crap, because that is what the market will bear, and he recognizes it. Sometimes he negotiates discounts, because he recognized an opportunity. These were on cancellations, where there was a sense of urgency on the operators part to sell it quickly. Don't everyone expect that a discount will be given on all hunts this year. Some will still sell at full price, for the ones that won't sell at full price, I am happy to deal. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Mark, I disagre to a large extent. If you negotiate an extremely large discount the outfitter may need to cut a few corners to help preserve some margin. But the basics of the hunt are going to be the same. The area and the species hunted is going and the numbers of days is going to be specified. I would find it quiet unusual for a PH to say...well client X didn't pay full price so I am going to take out the lousy tracker with me or use the vehicle that is going to breakdown more.... Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
| one of us |
Mike, I'm talking about safaris offered by different companies not safaris offered at differnt prices with the same company. Interested, I'm in total agreement with Wendell. It would be nearly impossible to SAVE big trophies for higher paying clients in any but the most unusual Afrcan safari situation. One guy will hunt his balls off for a 37" buffalo and the very next client will stumble out on the first day and whack a 43". That is just how it goes. We have almost no control over who shoots what and that is how it should be. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
|
| One of Us |
Ah, I see Mark. I don't consider that negotiating or "making a lower offer"...I consider that buying a different product. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
| one of us |
Personally, I think there is a lot of price fixing in the various hunting markets. I, personally, have seen hunting companies up price hunts at the SCI convention in Reno (04 &05) to much higher prices as other companies had those higher prices. I have had them tell me to book your buffalo safari now as there is a shortage. "All of the buffalo hunts are sold out for this year and next!" BS! Rarely so. Tanzania and Zim guys were notorious for this ploy. square shooter | |||
|
| One of Us |
I will say this from my perspective, and its just me... But, I am a really crappy negotiator. I know it. I also don't like being taken advantage of. I start hearing that so and so just got a hunt with my safari provider for X less than me, even though there is no objective difference in the hunt (meaning not a cancellation, etc. that is clearly the reason for the cut rate) I will be quite annoyed about this, and if I am not later given the same deal, it will likely be the end of my dealing with that provider. I know I'm not unique in this perspective. So, if you are waiting for a last minute deal, you may find one. Good on you, but I suspect that there are more than a few operators that don't want to really piss off long term clients with my attitude. | |||
|
One of Us |
Really. I was hunting mule deer in Eastern Montana. My brother's guide was the outfitter. He took a reasonable mule deer. That night, one of the hunters from a TV show appears in camp. On the second day, the outfitter, hunter and TV crew go out and shoot a MONSTER mule deer. Just luck I guess. | |||
|
| one of us |
Possibly ... maybe not though! Anyone who has hunted Deer on private land in the US knows it is possible to pattern a deer who is not pressured, so your story may be spot on. Maybe that is exactly what happened. I was talking about deals in Africa and what you could expect. It would not be possible for an African operator to save all the big animals for his "good" clients. Can it happen? Sure, it is possible under certain circumstances, with certain species. But it is far from common and not something that can be produced at will. In other words, It is not reasonable to believe that you will shoot sub-par animals simply because you paid less. After all, remember, you and the operator have to agree to a price. Nobody forced him to agree to a discount. He did it because he wanted to, or he determined that it was a good deal. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Wendell, dla69 perhaps clarified what I was trying to get at. I have hunted Africa many times but always paid full boat (except when i was a guest and got a freebie). My experience has been that my PHs, through long familiarity with the geography (and recent hunts), know where the better game are likely to be. Certainly, that has been my experience in the US when hunting deer, elk, etc. Last year I was fortunate to get a humongous elk but my guide had prescouted the area and knew generally where he was (a very long hike in on shank's mare). When we went to town from time to time we heard tales of woe from other guides that they weren't seeing anything worth taking, but then we found that they weren't working very hard at it either. In short, my guide (who had guided me on prior occasions) worked his butt off. Hypothetically, had I negotiated a lower price would he have got me on this big guy or would he have suggested that I take one of the many lesser elk we saw (that would have made most hunters and probably me just as happy) w/o disclosing the presence of the monster. He had another client come in after me, so he certainly had the opportunity to "save" my bull for the other client. Now, would he have found the other bull with the increased pressure? Who knows? Ditto with a buff. If the PH has a discount hunter coming in, followed by a full-pay client, and if he had spotted a 40+" buff previously, why would he not wish to save it for the full-pay client and just go after a smaller, easier to find (but good) buff for the discount hunter? There is no assurance that the full-pay client would ever get on the 40+" but, at least, he would know what he was after, just as I knew what bull I was after. I had no assurance that I would get on that bull, but the Gods were with me on that hunt. this question is not intended in any way to disparage or be critical of any reputable PH. But based on my US experiences, I'm just not sure how they avoid making these choices -- which I do not view as unethical. And obviously, i'm not talking about a cancellation hunt. I'm talking about a negotiated hunt. I'm appreciative of the guidance you are giving on this matter. | |||
|
| one of us |
interested, My 2 cents is that it would be unethical for a PH to intentionally avoid an area where a large trophy might reside in order to save that animal for a higher paying client that would hunt later in the season. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
|
| one of us |
I understand your points. I never said that type of situation wasn't possible in Africa. I did say it was unlikely in Africa. It seems more unlikely in Africa than in North America. Now, just because it is possible doesn't mean that you should expect that you would be in that kind of situation because you negetiated a deal. That was the point I was trying to make.  I expect that a hunter who has negotiated a deal will be treated like any other hunter. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Sounds like the two of you enjoy yourselves  Verbera!, Iugula!, Iugula!!! Blair. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I think it would be fairly easy to have a client take lesser animals. Here are a couple ways off the top of my head. 1) Say that this particular species isn't very big in this area and suggest the client take one early in the hunt as they don't get much better when in fact they do. 2) Point out a lesser animal to shoot while looking at a heard. Most clients seem to rely on the PH for trophy judgement and he might be the one looking through the binos. 3) Not be willing to go to some out of the way places for the possibilty of finding some better animals. 4) Hunt an animal at the wrong time of the day ie the big ones usually bed down right after dawn. 5) Not put out the favorite bait of animals in an area. 6) Have the trackers urinate around a blind or bait. 7) Use a lesser tracker or PH Just a couple of things I have read in safari books, many used to keep clients who were difficult from havinng great success. | |||
|
| one of us |
There are plenty of "specials" out there already this year, see "Discounted Hunts" forum; normally they don't come out of the woodwork until August. So if you are the passive type, you can just pick one and be done with it. If you want to get absolute bottom dollar, wait until Sept before booking. By that time, there will probably be specials on top of specials. Furthermore, the airfares come down in Sept. One caveat - the US dollar is losing value thanks to our administration's antics, so you may want to put your hunt money into something safer than Greenbacks. You may find that the best specials are priced in Euros. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
|
one of us |
I believe you just have to be a savy consumer and I generaly disagree with "in most cases if he pays less he will get less". As an example, look at what duxdog did last year. He picked up a bargain hunt and due to the trophies he shot, his outfitter walked away with a first in the 2008 "Best of Three Elephant" catagory and also took the "Best Antelope" award for the entire country of Zimbabwe! "There are worse memorials to a life well-lived than a pair of elephant tusks." Robert Ruark | |||
|
one of us |
Because a reputable PH is just that. And he wants good reports on the internet and happy repeat clients. I would imagine 10% less on a week that wasn't booked would be a good thing. Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Wendell, many thanks for your input. | |||
|
| one of us |
Our conversations remind me of a good friend who is a rancher arguing with a cattle broker. They fight and make accusations and hang up on each other and bicker and laugh make fun of each other ... The funny thing is that both of them know what price they will settle on at the beginning, but neither will agree to it right off the bat! it is quite a scene. I re-read that and it occurred to me that you could substitute Saeed for me and Walter for Jeff and it would be a very realistic conversation. Walter: I will only pay $XXXX for this hunt. Saeed: Walter, at that rate, we should just have the ph pay you to come hunt! Walter: Do you think he would do that? Saeed: Walter, you are drinking way too much this early in the morning, call me when you wake up from your dreamland. Walter: No, really, that is it. Forget it, I think I am not going hunting this year. Saeed: Whatever ... we are not done with this. You might as well pack your bags. Walter: Business is bad, I just had to pay for this and this and I don't know if I want to go shoot another (Insert animal). Saeed: Cry me a river. What else are you going to do with your money, save it? Whatever! Now that's funny, I don't care who you are! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Don't know about Sneed and Walter, but Wendell hit the nail on the head. I paid full price for my Zambian leopard last May and got a ele. in bots for almost half price. I was in camp with a very rich Spanish guy who had taken 17 ele's yes I said 17. He owned his own ranch in Bots. I never felt slighted. I am hoping to go again this year for at least 50% or better off in a great area. I trust Wendell he has never lied to me. I have had other booking agents spew so much crap, well enough said Find a person you trust here or in Africa. Stick with them. I trust Wendell and we do have fun picking at each other. NRA LIFE MEMBER DU DIAMOND SPONSOR IN PERPETUITY DALLAS SAFARI CLUB LIFE MEMBER SCI FOUNDATION MEMBER | |||
|
| one of us |
Some years ago a well known outfitter in Zim ... knowing that I was short on funds .. offered me a really great daily rate. I took him up on it and on those two safaris my guides were 21 and 24. Obviously they did not have to be paid as much as the more experienced dudes. So he saved a few bucks there .. and I got to listen to talk of frickin' rugby over a mopane camp fire  and occasionally these young men made some rather poor choices while hunting ... but it was cheaper. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Clients proposing offers on safaris to outfitters
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia