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Buffalo Hunting with Restless Africa Safaris
18 March 2014, 07:40
huntelkrcBuffalo Hunting with Restless Africa Safaris
Looking at a 7 day buffalo hunt with these folks in Zimbabwe. Hunting will be either in Matetsi or Hwange Reserve. If anyone has any experience with this outfit I would appreciate hearing their thoughts.
18 March 2014, 10:52
infinitoAs my text boxt thingie is not working....I will just say:
Watching this and eating popcorn...:-)
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18 March 2014, 15:59
Thierry Labatquote:
Originally posted by huntelkrc:
Looking at a 7 day buffalo hunt with these folks in Zimbabwe. Hunting will be either in Matetsi or Hwange Reserve. If anyone has any experience with this outfit I would appreciate hearing their thoughts.
Don't know anything about them, but what I do know is that they are not a Zimbabwean company! Who would they be taking you to hunt with is the more important question?As for hunting in Hwange National Park.........well I guess it's different strokes for different blokes....
Can I ask you a ? Of all the Zimbabwean operators there are, why would you want to deal with one that's not from Zimbabwe??
Cheers
Thierry
18 March 2014, 16:25
SaeedSo many times I have said, and I will be glad to repeat here again.
Do NOT, repeat NOT, book a hunt in Zimbabwe with a South African outfit!
18 March 2014, 16:27
505 gibbsBecause Its not just business, It becomes family (I think huntelkrc is the "it"). They have shot 3 nice buffalo though, oh, wait a minute, all 3 of those pics are the same buffalo...
18 March 2014, 18:24
Heeler75I knew those 3 pics of that cape buff looked familiar..
http://forums.accuratereloadin...2100588/m/1441030891No implication one way or the other, just knew I'd seen that buff and hunter before.
Going back to eating popcorn.
18 March 2014, 18:39
bwana cecilquote:
Can I ask you a ? Of all the Zimbabwean operators there are, why would you want to deal with one that's not from Zimbabwe??
Too many reputable outfitters out there to take a chance like this & Thierry is on top of the GOOD list.
LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show.
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NEVER TRUST A FART!!!
Cecil Leonard
18 March 2014, 18:43
Matt Grahamquote:
Originally posted by Heeler75:
I knew those 3 pics of that cape buff looked familiar..
http://forums.accuratereloadin...2100588/m/1441030891No implication one way or the other, just knew I'd seen that buff and hunter before.
Going back to eating popcorn.
So it is...
http://www.restlessafrica.co.za18 March 2014, 18:55
Jan DumonTo all the popcorn eaters out there.....
The outfitter in question is Donovan Steynberg. He brings clients to me from time to time to be hunted by me on my concessions.
I know him as a stand up and honourable person and has always acted accordingly.The inns and outs of his dealings in Zimbabwe is not known to me and its not my business , but I cannot see him breaking the law.
Whether its ethical to hunt a national park is a subject for each individual to decide.
huntelkrc , why don't you ask the man for a bunch of references , call them up and decide for yourself. If you're unclear about his dealings in Zimbabwe , ask him what the deal is , who the operator is , Ph , etc , and verify that. There are a number of Zim outfitters on this forum who will gladly do that for you.
His dealings with me have always been honourable .
Happy hunting
18 March 2014, 19:23
Lhook7quote:
Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
To all the popcorn eaters out there.....
The outfitter in question is Donovan Steynberg. He brings clients to me from time to time to be hunted by me on my concessions.
I know him as a stand up and honourable person and has always acted accordingly.The inns and outs of his dealings in Zimbabwe is not known to me and its not my business , but I cannot see him breaking the law.
Whether its ethical to hunt a national park is a subject for each individual to decide.
huntelkrc , why don't you ask the man for a bunch of references , call them up and decide for yourself. If you're unclear about his dealings in Zimbabwe , ask him what the deal is , who the operator is , Ph , etc , and verify that. There are a number of Zim outfitters on this forum who will gladly do that for you.
His dealings with me have always been honourable .
Happy hunting
Maybe while you are asking for references you could also ask him how ethical it is to hunt tame animals in a national park.
____________________________________________
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18 March 2014, 19:38
Jan DumonMaybe while you are asking for references you could also ask him how ethical it is to hunt tame animals in a national park.[/QUOTE]
18 March 2014, 20:11
Lhook7quote:
Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
Maybe while you are asking for references you could also ask him how ethical it is to hunt tame animals in a national park.
[/QUOTE]
Funny you should use that emoticon, that is exactly how I picture the "hunt" taking place.
____________________________________________
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett.
18 March 2014, 21:21
Jan DumonApparently the hunt in question was advertised at the low country chapter of SCI as a donation hunt. huntelkrc reacted to this advertising.
scilowcountry.org
I might be wrong gentleman , but I see no reference to a national park hunt being offered , only Matetsi.
I'm done being the messenger now.
19 March 2014, 00:02
fairgamequote:
Originally posted by bwana cecil:
quote:
Can I ask you a ? Of all the Zimbabwean operators there are, why would you want to deal with one that's not from Zimbabwe??
Too many reputable outfitters out there to take a chance like this & Thierry is on top of the GOOD list.
There is a bunch of good guys in Zim and many more outside of AR.
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19 March 2014, 07:53
huntelkrcJan is right. This is a donated hunt at one of the SCI fundraisers and I was checking to see if it might be worthwhile to bid on. I'm just doing my due diligence before moving forward. I appreciate those who have shared constructive comments.
19 March 2014, 18:50
Larry Sellershuntelkrc - You are approaching this the right way. Check things out prior to any commitment. You have also now been exposed to the two elements here on AR. The ones that have a lot of knowledge and want to help and those that are just wantabees. Good luck with your decision and hope it works out for you. Hunting Africa awesome, so keep the faith.
Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
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DRSS
quote:
Originally posted by huntelkrc:
Jan is right. This is a donated hunt at one of the SCI fundraisers and I was checking to see if it might be worthwhile to bid on. I'm just doing my due diligence before moving forward. I appreciate those who have shared constructive comments.
19 March 2014, 19:33
Saeedquote:
Originally posted by huntelkrc:
Jan is right. This is a donated hunt at one of the SCI fundraisers and I was checking to see if it might be worthwhile to bid on. I'm just doing my due diligence before moving forward. I appreciate those who have shared constructive comments.
As usual, SCI turns a blind eye to anyone "donating" anything.
Could the organizers ask a few questions before accepting an offer?
19 March 2014, 19:58
Matt Grahamquote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by huntelkrc:
Jan is right. This is a donated hunt at one of the SCI fundraisers and I was checking to see if it might be worthwhile to bid on. I'm just doing my due diligence before moving forward. I appreciate those who have shared constructive comments.
As usual, SCI turns a blind eye to anyone "donating" anything.
Could the organizers ask a few questions before accepting an offer?
What makes you think they did not ask the questions?
19 March 2014, 20:54
Saeedquote:
Originally posted by Matt Graham:
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by huntelkrc:
Jan is right. This is a donated hunt at one of the SCI fundraisers and I was checking to see if it might be worthwhile to bid on. I'm just doing my due diligence before moving forward. I appreciate those who have shared constructive comments.
As usual, SCI turns a blind eye to anyone "donating" anything.
Could the organizers ask a few questions before accepting an offer?
What makes you think they did not ask the questions?
Just going on past performance from that lot.
Listen to Saeed, he is 100% correct stay away from anything to do with South Africans in Zimbabwe and keep out of the pParks.
21 March 2014, 16:00
PD999quote:
Originally posted by GOB:
Listen to Saeed, he is 100% correct stay away from anything to do with South Africans in Zimbabwe and keep out of the Parks.
+1 common sense really
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24 March 2014, 09:00
muck rackerIF the hunt is the park, know this, you will not get your trophy. Full stop. The end.
24 March 2014, 10:02
Venture Southquote:
Do NOT, repeat NOT, book a hunt in Zimbabwe with a South African outfit!
Saeed, you need to rein your horse in. A lot of us SA opperators support a few of the guys in Zim and kept them in business while Zim was the scum of the earth for a lot of foreigners.
Please take note, I dont support illegal activities or any other shenanigans that has taken place. But we have supported our neighbours since the industry opened its doors and they have done the same for us.
I think we should all look after each other and get rid of the bad apples, rather than making silly statements to the effect which you just did.
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24 March 2014, 12:11
shakariThere's nothing necessarily wrong with booking with an out of country outfitter whether South African/Zim or anything/anywhere else IF (note the big IF) everything is done correctly and a local PH (etc) hired to conform to all legal requirements and there's plenty of Zim (and other) PHs & outfitters (including most of the very good ones) do that very thing elsewhere in Africa.
24 March 2014, 13:53
Saeedquote:
Originally posted by Hunting the Box H:
quote:
Do NOT, repeat NOT, book a hunt in Zimbabwe with a South African outfit!
Saeed, you need to rein your horse in. A lot of us SA opperators support a few of the guys in Zim and kept them in business while Zim was the scum of the earth for a lot of foreigners.
Please take note, I dont support illegal activities or any other shenanigans that has taken place. But we have supported our neighbours since the industry opened its doors and they have done the same for us.
I think we should all look after each other and get rid of the bad apples, rather than making silly statements to the effect which you just did.
I think we all like to see the bad apples from both South Africa and Zimbabwe exposed.
But, so far practically every time something shady is going on in Zimbabwe, it seems to have a South African angle to it.
This has been brought up here before, why doesn't PHASA do something about it?
My point is we have a lot of honest outfitters in Zimbabwe he do keep their hands clean, and those are the ones we should support.
Does one get a cheaper hunt by booking with a South African PH to hunt in Zimbabwe?
Doesn't a South African PH require the presence of a PH who is licensed in Zimbabwe to be able to conduct a hunt?
24 March 2014, 14:19
Thierry Labatquote:
Originally posted by shakari:
There's nothing necessarily wrong with booking with an out of country outfitter whether South African/Zim or anything/anywhere else IF (note the big IF) everything is done correctly and a local PH (etc) hired to conform to all legal requirements and there's plenty of Zim (and other) PHs & outfitters (including most of the very good ones) do that very thing elsewhere
in Africa.
Shakari, you are absolutely correct. I personally have been approached by SA operators/PHs and am more than happy to work with them.
My assumption of why any outside operator wants to deal with a less renowned "operator/PH" from Zim, in Zim is perhaps because the figure at the end of a hunt quote is generally a lot lower than it would be if dealing with a more reputable one, that the outside operator thinks he can make more money for himself?
My original reply to this post, implied that it would be equally, if not more important to find out who the South African operator would be dealing with in Zim, rather than just asking about the SA operator.
24 March 2014, 14:23
nickhFwiw,
2 red flags here,
Hunting in hwange for buff
Hunting in Matetsi if your a US citizen could bring you under LAcey Act breach.
Book with the good guys in ZIm, there are lots of them,
Some are CM safaris, Bvekenya safaris, CHifuti safaris, MOkore safaris, the list goes on
Cheers
Nick
24 March 2014, 16:57
Jan DumonNick , please read the thread , there is no park hunt offered in the advertising for the hunt in question.
Can any of the Zim outfitters please explain the problem with americans hunting in Matetsi ?
This is an honest question guys , might be a stupid one , I just don't know anything about how your hunting areas are structured.
Now , while most of the Zim outfitters on AR are top notch outfits , there has to be many more who are not members . Are you not all affiliated to a professional hunters or outfitters association which can police the bad apples ?
Once again , just asking to genuinely get a grip on this , seeing that I got pulled into this one.
24 March 2014, 17:09
shakariThe reason SOME (note the big SOME) clients choose to book with a particular company but hunt a different country is that the client has established a relationship with an individual PH or outfitter etc so wants to hunt with them and if that PH (etc) books with a good local company and hires a locally qualified PH then there's nothing wrong with that at all and it happens all over Africa and very regularly.
I should say I'm all for stamping out the fly by night flaky buggers but let's try to keep things in perspective and not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
As an example of how it can work perfectly legally and acceptably: Saeed himself has established a good working relationship with a VERY good and VERY well respected PH/company in the Vincents and he likes to hunt with them...... and I'm sure he'd be happy to hunt with the Vincents anywhere in Africa as long as all the legalities were observed.
Other examples can be found any night of the season in the Seacliff Hotel in Dar...... All you have to do is walk into the bar and you'll be fairly sure to find several PHs who are using a locally licenced PH to operate there.
24 March 2014, 17:14
nickhJan,
The opening post states "hunt in either Hwange or Matetsi"
Cheers
Nick
P
24 March 2014, 17:20
Saeedquote:
Originally posted by shakari:
The reason SOME (note the big SOME) clients choose to book with a particular company but hunt a different country is that the client has established a relationship with an individual PH or outfitter etc so wants to hunt with them and if that PH (etc) books with a good local company and hires a locally qualified PH then there's nothing wrong with that at all and it happens all over Africa and very regularly.
I should say I'm all for stamping out the fly by night flaky buggers but let's try to keep things in perspective and not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
As an example of how it can work perfectly legally and acceptably: Saeed himself has established a good working relationship with a VERY good and VERY well respected PH/company in the Vincents and he likes to hunt with them...... and I'm sure he'd be happy to hunt with the Vincents anywhere in Africa as long as all the legalities were observed.
Other examples can be found any night of the season in the Seacliff Hotel in Dar...... All you have to do is walk into the bar and you'll be fairly sure to find several PHs who are using a locally licenced PH to operate there.
I have also hunted with a South African PH is Tanzania. He is licensed there and can conduct hunts by himself.
I would not have hunted with anyone that has to employ an additional PH to be legal.
Alan Vincent, the PH from Zimbabwe who I hunt with in Tanzania, is licensed to hunt there.
He has been with me on safaris in Tanzania and South Africa, but only as a camera man.
24 March 2014, 17:33
Lhook7quote:
Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
Nick , please read the thread , there is no park hunt offered in the advertising for the hunt in question.
Can any of the Zim outfitters please explain the problem with americans hunting in Matetsi ?
This is an honest question guys , might be a stupid one , I just don't know anything about how your hunting areas are structured.
Now , while most of the Zim outfitters on AR are top notch outfits , there has to be many more who are not members . Are you not all affiliated to a professional hunters or outfitters association which can police the bad apples ?
Once again , just asking to genuinely get a grip on this , seeing that I got pulled into this one.
quote:
Originally posted by huntelkrc:
Looking at a 7 day buffalo hunt with these folks in Zimbabwe. Hunting will be either in Matetsi or Hwange Reserve. If anyone has any experience with this outfit I would appreciate hearing their thoughts.
Jan,
Hwange is a national park.
____________________________________________
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett.
24 March 2014, 17:59
shakariquote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
I have also hunted with a South African PH is Tanzania. He is licensed there and can conduct hunts by himself.
I would not have hunted with anyone that has to employ an additional PH to be legal.
Alan Vincent, the PH from Zimbabwe who I hunt with in Tanzania, is licensed to hunt there.
He has been with me on safaris in Tanzania and South Africa, but only as a camera man.
I think the Vincents are some of the VERY best but am surprised to hear that you wouldn't hunt with Alan under those circumstances..... I certainly would & it's quite common for it to happen there.
(apologies for the assumption)
FWIW, I've been the legal PH for a number of hunts where there another (not locally licenced) PH came with the client. As long as the non local guy is competent, it works well enough & if he's not, then the legally licenced PH just steps in when he sees the other guy is out of his depth.
24 March 2014, 18:13
505 gibbsquote:
Can any of the Zim outfitters please explain the problem with americans hunting in Matetsi ? This is an honest question guys , might be a stupid one , I just don't know anything about how your hunting areas are structured.
Are you linked to this hunt that huntelkrc is asking about? Do you book hunts in Zim?
24 March 2014, 18:22
shakariquote:
Originally posted by Thierry Labat:
Shakari, you are absolutely correct. I personally have been approached by SA operators/PHs and am more than happy to work with them.
My assumption of why any outside operator wants to deal with a less renowned "operator/PH" from Zim, in Zim is perhaps because the figure at the end of a hunt quote is generally a lot lower than it would be if dealing with a more reputable one, that the outside operator thinks he can make more money for himself?
My original reply to this post, implied that it would be equally, if not more important to find out who the South African operator would be dealing with in Zim, rather than just asking about the SA operator.
I can't disagree with you there buddy....... A cheap safari is always going to be just that & you don't get what you don't pay for!
24 March 2014, 18:38
Jan Dumonquote:
Originally posted by Lhook7:
quote:
Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
Nick , please read the thread , there is no park hunt offered in the advertising for the hunt in question.
Can any of the Zim outfitters please explain the problem with americans hunting in Matetsi ?
This is an honest question guys , might be a stupid one , I just don't know anything about how your hunting areas are structured.
Now , while most of the Zim outfitters on AR are top notch outfits , there has to be many more who are not members . Are you not all affiliated to a professional hunters or outfitters association which can police the bad apples ?
Once again , just asking to genuinely get a grip on this , seeing that I got pulled into this one.
quote:
Originally posted by huntelkrc:
Looking at a 7 day buffalo hunt with these folks in Zimbabwe. Hunting will be either in Matetsi or Hwange Reserve. If anyone has any experience with this outfit I would appreciate hearing their thoughts.
Jan,
Hwange is a national park.
Thank you ,
This is what huntelkrc says in his post. However the actual advertising which he reacted upon ( see the SCI chapter advert ) only mentions matetsi.
Still don't know what the problem in matetsi is though. Is it a legal hunting area ? or part of the national park ?
24 March 2014, 18:42
Jan Dumonquote:
Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
quote:
Can any of the Zim outfitters please explain the problem with americans hunting in Matetsi ? This is an honest question guys , might be a stupid one , I just don't know anything about how your hunting areas are structured.
Are you linked to this hunt that huntelkrc is asking about? Do you book hunts in Zim?
No , I'm not linked to the hunt in question and I don't book hunts in Zimbabwe. I do however know the South African outfitter in question and I know him to be a honourable guy from his dealings with me in South Africa.
24 March 2014, 19:14
Lhook7Jan,
The only experience I have on Matetsi is reading about it on AR, so rather than give "internet expert" advice I'll be honest and say I am certainly not the person to ask for information on Matetsi.
____________________________________________
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett.
24 March 2014, 19:19
Jan Dumonquote:
Originally posted by nickh:
Jan,
The opening post states "hunt in either Hwange or Matetsi"
Cheers
Nick
Nick
I'm aware of that . However , if one looks at the advertising which he reacted upon , it clearly only states Matetsi. Must have been a slip from huntelkrc.
Cheers
P
24 March 2014, 19:22
Jan Dumonquote:
Originally posted by Lhook7:
Jan,
The only experience I have on Matetsi is reading about it on AR, so rather than give "internet expert" advice I'll be honest and say I am certainly not the person to ask for information on Matetsi.
Could one of our Zimbabwean outfitters please shed light on this.
