Elephant: 450g Barnes X at 47 yards from 460 Weatherby. First/only shot a side brain as bull was turning towards us. Bullet recovered from under the skin just forward of the far side ear slit. 82% weight retention with all four petals fully expanded, but also partially sheared off. Head of expanded X bullet 155% original bullet diameter.

Rhino: 450g Barnes X at 22 yards from 460 Weatherby. Broadside shot into shoulder. Bullet recovered from under the skin on opposite shoulder having passed through heavy bone on both sides. 75% weight retention. All four petals completely shed. Bullet ~113% original diameter and essentially appeared to have performed as a 335grain solid. However, after first shot the Rhino still ran for several hundred yards. Second shot on point of same shoulder and third into right hip quartering from behind concluded the chase. Three bullets recovered very similar to one pictured below.

Lion: 450g Barnes X at 43 yards from 460 Weatherby. Clean pass through on first shot after 22 mile stalk through Kalahari where cat had been killing cattle. Both shoulders broken with extensive secondary bone/bullet fragmentation damage to lungs/heart. Lion made one leap from back legs after shot and expired ~2 yards from initial impact.

Cape Buffalo: 450g Barnes X at 41 yards from 460 Weatherby. First shot nearly head on at edge of high grass dropped bull, glancing off underside of spine and penetrating through lungs. Second shot at retreating bull after it stood back up was quartering from behind, entering at rear of ribs and passed through both heart and lungs. Third shot into spine above hips anchored bull prior to re-entering tall grass. No pass throughs, but no bullet recoveries.

Leopard: 450g Barnes X at 77 yards from 460 Weatherby. Clean pass through on first shot after 18 mile stalk thru bush. Bullet impacted quarter inch branch, less than 1 foot prior to entering behind cat's left shoulder. Bullet entered sideways, creating a 7 inch tear parallel to the left leg from top of shoulder towards bottom of elbow. Exit wound similarly prodigious (and unfortunate). Bullet left trench behind the cat in the Kalahari sand nearly 2 feet long, and uprooted another large bush beyond the trench. 185lb Leopard was pushed back a yard, but didn't move from where it came to rest.

Best Regards,
Stuntpilot



View from top of recovered bullets...

Great report! Congratulations on a very succesful safari!

Congratulations on a fantastic hunt and on the efficacy of that much-maligned caliber, the 460 Weatherby. When all is said and done, I think it is the best of the lot of the 45s. jorge

Great report....thanks....can we get pics too?

Fantastic!!! A great cartridge. In general were you happy with the performance? Any pics?

Thanks for the detailed report!

I hope that the observation I am about to make is not seen as a critism of the cartridge, because that is not how it is meant. But a side brain shot on an elephant which does not exit means less than 2 feet of penetration (not sure of the size of you elephant, so correct me if I am off by a bit). That could be attributed to the X bullet being used. Also, lack of an exit on the broadside rhino is also a bit of a surprise. Another couple of factors that can result in less penetration than expected are a slow twist barrel which leads to bullet instability in flesh, and excessive yaw of the bullet which leads to tumbling. Excessive yaw is caused by excessive velocity for the rate of twist.

What I am getting to is that I wonder if performance would have been better if a 1-10" twist bad been used (per Art Alphin's work) instead of the usual 1-16" found in 460's.

As for tracking cats 20 miles or more in the desert, that is a hunt I have always dreamed of. Maybe someday...


Best wishes.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Thanks for the detailed report!

I hope that the observation I am about to make is not seen as a critism of the cartridge, because that is not how it is meant. But a side brain shot on an elephant which does not exit means less than 2 feet of penetration (not sure of the size of you elephant, so correct me if I am off by a bit). That could be attributed to the X bullet being used. Also, lack of an exit on the broadside rhino is also a bit of a surprise. Another couple of factors that can result in less penetration than expected are a slow twist barrel which leads to bullet instability in flesh, and excessive yaw of the bullet which leads to tumbling. Excessive yaw is caused by excessive velocity for the rate of twist.

What I am getting to is that I wonder if performance would have been better if a 1-10" twist bad been used (per Art Alphin's work) instead of the usual 1-16" found in 460's.

As for tracking cats 20 miles or more in the desert, that is a hunt I have always dreamed of. Maybe someday...


Best wishes.

------
No worries about offending my sensibilities regarding the 460 Weatherby. My observation has been that shot placement counts for more than caliber, assuming one is in the right ballpark of "enough gun". My 460 is the big bore I've got the most experience shooting, and am comfortable with. And, when it comes to placement, it seems that comfort and experience usually trump statistical esoterica about caliber.

That said, it's not clear to me that yaw accounted for the lack of pass thru on the Elephant, Rhino, or Buffalo. Skinning revealed the wound channels on all three to be straight extrapolations of the trajectories prior to entry. The failures to exit did seem relatively consistent with terminal ballistics studies I've read that suggest the same bullet traveling at somewhat less than 460 Weatherby velocities tend to penetrate further. I was using factory loads, so I can't bring first hand data to this table on whether the same might have been true here, but I suspect it may have.

My biggest take away from the Buffalo and Rhino hunts was the immense amount of punishment both can take before stopping. I'd count myself fortunate that both decided running away was a better plan than running toward after my first shot. Those two experiences prior to the elephant were enough to make me change my plans for where first shot placement would go on the biggest, and last of the five.

Best Regards,
Stunt Pilot

Congratulations on an excellent hunt!!

Stuntpilot, it sounds like you had an absolutely wonderful safari, and your results speak for themselves on all counts.

The 460 Weatherby may not be a traditional African dangerous-game cartridge, but it's surely one of the very best available.

I'd LOVE to have a big commercial Mauser action, such as a Granite Mountain, complete with the correct magazine system, turned into a custom 460 Weatherby. I'd rather have that than 90% of the other big 45s that are out there...........

AD

Stuntpilot..I see you have good taste in rifles
and calibres. Thanks for your write up. What model
weatherby were you using?

AKA,
I'm using a stock Weatherby Lazermark with a Leupold 2.5-10x LPS scope. I bought the former used, a dozen years ago (literally with a box of 19 shells ). At the time, it looked pristine. Now it looks......well broken in.
There are at least a couple things I'd change about the rifle were I to build it from scratch. I'd shorten the barrel, deepen the magazine to include another round. I'd probably also dispense with the laser wood artwork as well. If only to avoid the "oh no, not another one of these guys" looks you'll consistently get from new/unfamiliar PHs when it first comes out of the case.
All that said, I've put hundreds and hundreds of rounds thru the barrel and it's now what I'm used to. Will probably leave well enough alone....

Thanks,
Stuntpilot

Stuntpilot,

Thanks for a report. I would love to see some pictures.

Ski+3

Stuntpilot,

Great photos and beautiful trophies. Who did you hunt with? Would love to read the details of your adventure.

Thank you for sharing the photos.

Really nice Leopard!

I'd call you hunt very successful!
Congratulations and thanks for sharing!

Great report, and nice pictures!

Stunt p2,

Great stories and photos..


Mike

A couple others from the same trip....

DAMN!

You, my friend, are gonna need a bigger garage!



Best,

JohnTheGreek

Great pics! Thanks for the detail on the bullets.

I am wondering the same thing as J-T-G...will you have to park one of your cars outside now?

Cheers,
Canuck

stuntpilot2, I was very interested in your Barnes X
information. My 460 factory loaded 450 barnes X lost 80 grains on my buffalo. Knowing what you now know about the Barnes X would you use the 500 FMJ or stay with the barnes X? Nice pictures by the way.

"And, when it comes to placement, it seems that comfort and experience usually trump statistical esoterica about caliber."

That's probably the best line I've ever read on this site!!!

Way to go SP2!

Keep up the good work.

Kyler

AKA,
I was surprised how often the X bullet lost its petals when fired in factory ammo from my 460 Wby at close range. In all but one case, they sheared off. If that were the standard of performance to be expected on dangerous game going forward, I'd opt for the 500g FMJ. Especially since I can’t report that either the Buffalo or the Rhino exhibited any external symptoms of having a bigger internal wound channel from their shoulder shots that theory would suggest might have been produced at the front side of the terminal ballistics by petal fragments or "cavitation" from incremental additional bullet velocity.

I suspect that there’s a dynamic in play with these terminal ballistics that unfolds similarly to how surface tension of water affects objects falling into it. That velocity beyond a certain level is actually detrimental and has the same effect on a bullet as the velocity difference between jumping from the edge of a pool, versus from an airplane into water would have on the human body. In the latter case our bodies would initially have difficulty distinguishing the water from a slab of concrete, given the likely entry velocity. My suspicion (with no data to prove it) is if the 450g Barnes X had impacted at closer to 2100-2200 fps, it might have performed perfectly and possibly passed thru. But, at 2600+ fps impact velocity, it loses its petals and becomes the equivalent of a ~350-400 grain solid.

Long answer to a good question….For the next Elephant / Rhino / Buffalo, I’ll be using 500g solids.


Thanks,
Stuntpilot

Stuntpilot2. I dont mean to get this topic of thread but I had this conversation with my PH, John Sharp 1 month ago. He suggested that i contact
http://www.superiorammo.com and have them load to factory specs Trophy Bonded® Bearclaw bullets. I will do this on my hunt to Zambia next year for lion..buff
and hippo(bait). Again great trophies you took!

AKA,
No problem. Sent you a PM on the subject.

Thanks,
Stuntpilot

Steve; let me know what Superior ammo says. Regarding teh 460, you might also want to consider the 500gr Hornady as an alternate for the lion. At 2700 fps, even if it over-expands, I think it will handily anchor that lion especially in an up close situation it would be a hell of a stopper. Stuntpilot; your rifle must have been a special order rifle as the Lazermark option is only available up to the 340 Weatherby. Incidentally fellows, I just received in the mail a Weatherby Guide from 1967. Pretty neat just form the historcail aspect. Pictures of John Wayne and other movie stars and even military officers when it was politically correct to hunt! More amazing was the game taken with things we all now consider foolhardy, for example, Some Middle Eastern Royal had a testimonial on his one shot kill on a huge lion with a 257 Weatherby and 100grain bullet. There's also a great picture of Roy and a HUGE polar bear taken with the 300 Weatherby and 180gr Hornadys as well as a Cape Buffalo with a one shot kill with a 7mm Weatherby (what were they thinking! . I know a lot of you out there don't care much for them, but those Weatherby calibers are superb in my estimation. jorge

Awesome safari and trophies!!!

Do the gloves help with the recoil of the 460?

I have a 458 Win Mag that I load 500 grain bullets to 2,150 fps and that is more than enough recoil for me.

Being able to accurately place multiple shots from full loads of a 460 Weatherby is something to be admired. Good job.

Tim

Congratulations on your successful safari.

You have answered a question I've often wondered about, which is whether the Barnes X or other similar monometal shanked designs like the TBBC or Hirtenberger ABC would work on thick skinned DG like elphant and rhino, or hippo.

Clearly they work! But it seems that, at least in the case of the X bullets, when they encounter heavy resistance, they will shear off their petals. Then they bore on through, like light for caliber solids. Not a bad thing.

But I think you are right to go to a 500 grain solid in future. Better weight for caliber will ensure better penetration.

Although in my .458 Lott, none of my 500 grain solids achieved full penetration on multiple hippo body shots.

Again, congrats on an awesome safari experience.

quote:

Originally posted by Shumba:
Awesome safari and trophies!!!

Do the gloves help with the recoil of the 460?

I have a 458 Win Mag that I load 500 grain bullets to 2,150 fps and that is more than enough recoil for me.

Being able to accurately place multiple shots from full loads of a 460 Weatherby is something to be admired. Good job.

Tim

Tim,
They probably do, but the gloves were more for the thorns during stalks.

Best Regards,
Stuntpilot

SP2,

Is there any reason why you did not shoot solids for the ele, hippo, and rhino..

Mike

Great looking trophies...

quote:

Originally posted by retreever:
SP2,

Is there any reason why you did not shoot solids for the ele, hippo, and rhino..

Mike

Great looking trophies...

Michael,
Somewhere between the TSA and SAA, my solids went MIA.

Thanks,
Stuntpilot

quote:

Originally posted by stuntpilot2:
...deepen the magazine to include another round.

stuntpilot,

Great trophies and report! Regarding the magazine, check with Weatherby on the new floorplate which is supposed to increase magazine capacity. I don't know if it is available for the .378/.416/.460 actions, though.

George

Optional drop box magazine from the Weatherby Custom Shop: http://www.weatherby.com/products/custom_options.asp?pr...ub_type=8&prd_id=261

George & Chris,
Thanks for the heads up. Once again, this message board delivers!

For the other WBY users on the board, I just got off the phone with Weatherby's custom shop. They call it a "Drop box kit", and it's been on the market for about a year now. The product code for the 378/416/460 version is CBA2038, and requires you specifiy which of the three calibers you're ordering for. The new belly floor plate comes in an assembly with a new trigger guard and follower. I ordered one for $150.00 which included shipping in the US.

I'll report back on how well it works in a few weeks when it arrives and I've had a chance to take it to the range.

Thanks again,
Stuntpilot

Glad we could help, Stuntpilot!

George

quote:

Originally posted by stuntpilot2:

Michael,
Somewhere between the TSA and SAA, my solids went MIA.

Just curious, were your bags locked but opened by TSA? This sort of thing makes me very nervous.

500,
I lock my bags with Travel Sentry locks that the TSA can open and re-lock. The bag that was opened had a note in it stating it had been inspected. It's unclear to me where in the process between leaving my bags at the large X-Ray machine in the US and getting it off the belt in Jo-Berg the ammo disappeared.

Thanks,
Stuntpilot

500 grains & Stuntpilot,

I have had outright THEFT from folks working for the TSA. In fact, Air Canada told me it was a problem that they were trying to address with the TSA and they documented the fact that my bags were opened, relocked and contained a note inside from the TSA.

On one occassion, I had a box of 50 .30 cal Swifts stolen. On another occassion, I had a Puma knife stolen. Both flights originated in the U.S. on my way back from SCI Conventions. The Air Canada rep. said that some people in the TSA confiscate certain 'dangerous' items for themselves, without reason.

I now insist on on-site baggage inspection and make them place a seal on my luggage to ensure that no one fucks with my stuff. It is a major pain to file a damage claim form for $40 to $125, even though I ended up doing that. Air Canada then escapes from paying by saying that those goods are potentially dangerous goods and they are not covered.

Stuntpilot2
Great hunt, and great pictures.
When I was in Zim, June 2004 I met a PH named Billy Lemon. He uses a 460 Weatherby for backup. When I asked him why he said,"Because I can shoot an elephant running away in the butt, and the bullet will be found in the front of his chest."
He was using 500gr solids.