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I saw one of the Capstick videos a few years ago where P.H. said and showed that his favorite scope configuration on his safari rifle was a swing type or "tip off" mount that quickly allowed the scope to be pushed out of the way. I have a Pre-64 Model 70 in .375 and have a set of good quick release mounts on it, but am not perfectly happy with what might happen in the field. They seem to work as advertised, but can get worked so tight that it takes a tool to break them loose. And of course there's always the thought that a slight alignment change might occur when reattaching them. Anyone seen or heard of a set of manufacturer mounts similar to the Capstick setup? It seems an ideal system assuming it can hold up to the recoil. "I envy not him that eats better meat than I do; nor him that is richer, or that wears better clothes than I do; I envy him, and him only, that kills bigger deer than I do." Izaak Walton (modified) | ||
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I've used Pachmayr Lo-Swing mounts on several rifles. I have one on my FN action Sako 375 Wby and love it. The rifle has one standing/one folding rear sights and a 2.5X8 Leupold VariX III in the swing mount. I use it extensively elk hunting in heavily wooded mountains where a 300 yard cross canyon shot or a 20 yard jump shot are equally expected. The scope goes right back to zero every time. They were great mounts, if not a bit ugly. Allen Moon will soon be using one, if all gets where it belongs. | |||
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I observed the following at the Reno SCI -- Leupold booth -- looks great but have not tried it -- although if someone has - let me know how it worked http://www.leupold.com/products/mounts.htm New! LX Rapid Relocking Mounting System The latest in super high-end rapid release/remount systems. • Incredible zero retention, to retain its point of impact even after being removed and replaced • Uses a locking lever to cam into place more quickly and securely than ever • Ideal for dangerous game situations, when the need to use iron sights can come at a moment’s notice • Exceptional system for traveling, you can remove and replace it quickly OMG!-- my bow is "pull-push feed" - how dreadfully embarrasing!!!!! | |||
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I have never been totally happy with my Talley's. Slow to get off or on, inconsistant return to zero. I might have to try that Leupold. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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The Leupolds leave alot to be desired too IMHO. While I have them on several of my rifles and they do return to alignment or very close to it the thumb levers are shoddy. | |||
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Anyone have a picture of a rifle with a tip off mount? | |||
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I have never heard/had talleys not returning to zero, is that the experience of others on the board?? | |||
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Alp#4, Did you look at the link? Go to the bottom of the Leupold page in the link to see the new mount. BaxterB, Try this with a set of Talley QD's: Sight your rifle in at 100yds. Put up a clean target. Fire three, remove, remount and fire three more repeat... When I have done it I end up with a serries of groups that if you were to draw a line from center of one to center of the one next to it...I would end up with a 2" high by 3" wide rectangle with the original group more or less in the center. The groups on the edge of the rectagle were random in order (variation might be right and down or right and up or ...not predictable) and the groups themselves were the same size as the original group.Good enough for most purposes. Not, imo, good enough for leopard hunting. I tried various different tightening regimes and none really helped, though some were a little better than others. The best, iirc, is to tighten each lever some then the other, back to the first...Then not too gently hit each ring with the heel of your palm as you near fully tight. So I have wanted to kill an elephant with my 375H&H, my lighter back up DG/plains game rifle but have yet to connect on a leopard and so have ended my elephant hunting with the scope still on. Not that I mind using my heavy rifle for elephants, just that I would like to shoot one with my 375H&H also. (PHs' comment have been, why would you want to do that, when you have your heavy rifle? But I'm curious.) JPK Free 500grains | |||
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The Pachmayr have all the remove-reinstall type mounts beat by yards, IMO. You can instantly move the scope over or move it back without all the fumbling involved with the QD mounts. I have used swing mounts, claw mounts, Talley mounts, Warne mounts, and both flavors of Leupold mounts. For complete removal the claw mounts work best for me with the swing mount a close second. As for Talley, Warne, Leupold... Talleys are awkward and don't repeat well. Warne are not as awkward and repeat about the same as Talley. Both Leupolds were a disaster and the small round lug type is absolutely worthless. The Pachmayr goes right back to zero for the 300 yard accuracy one would need. Its too bad they are a thing of the past. | |||
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JPK For best results with detachable mounts and return to zero either the rings should be lapped or the scope bedded to the rings. Either is not easy with the vertical split rings like Talley. But if the mounts are perfect and the action is not then you can have the sort of problems you are getting. Mike | |||
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My Talley's return anywhere from 2 to 4 inches off of zero at 100 yds. That isn't good enough for me. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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SuperSpeed, What would you recomend? How can I tell if its the rings, mounts or action? Appreciate your help. JPK Free 500grains | |||
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JPK For starters it is safe to assume that both the rings/bases and action are not spot on. As to brand and type of mount I don't like the vertical split ring because I am going to either lap the rings or bed the scope....even before trying them out. I have had very good success with Leupold QR mounts....they are the ones with a post on the bottom of each ring. That post has like a semi circle section removed and the levers work a cam which pushes the ring forward and pulls it down at the same time. However, the cross slot mounts, which a pretty much standard on accuracy guns, are good. As a side note, at least on the forums, I am in the minority with my liking of the Leupold QR mounts. Initially I epoxy the bases to the receiver. Once that is all set I install the rings. If they are cross slot mounts I tighten them fairly tight and then drive each ring forward with a drift. I tighten some more and use the drift again. With the Leupold QR mounts I simply tighten the levers which forces the ring into its natural position. Once that is done I either lap the bottom rings or bed the scope to the bottom rings. One of the problems is that the front and rear base might not be in perfect line. However, the scope is straight so the recoil stops on the base finish up only having point contact because the scope wants to hold the ring in a certain position......By putting the bases/rings on and then either lapping or bedding the scope to the rings this problem is overcome. The negative with the above approach is that the scope will not just fall off when you release the levers. The reason is that you have mounted the scope with the rings hard up against the recoil stops and because you have either lapped or bedded the scope there is full contact against the recoil stops. To put things in perspective you only need about a .001" change between front and rear scope mounts to cause a change of an inch at 100 yards. So as you can see not much needs to be wrong to be getting 2" to 4" change in point of impact etc. Mike | |||
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If I follow you explanation, the solution is to first ensure that the recoil stops on the bases are 90* to the bore. Then ensure that the recoil stops on the bases and the recoil stops on the rings mate over 100% of the surfaces. Then lap the rings. This should ensure that recoil is straight back with no room for compression and rebound other than in a straight line, 90* to the bore. Do I have this right? Thanks, JPK Free 500grains | |||
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JPK Basically that is it. Think of this way. Let's assume that the front base is pointing a few degrees off line from the rear base or the centre of the action. When you mount the ring and force it against the recoil stop then the ring will also be point a few degrees off line. As you can see, when you now mount the scope you set up all sorts of tensions/stesses etc. But once you either lap or bed the scope to the rings then there are no tensions. The ring itself will still be pointing a few degrees out of line but that does not matter because you have countered that by the lapping or bedding. In other words you have lined up the "hole" in both front and rear rings. One thing I should point out is this will not correct any alignment problems between the barrel and the mount/scope. If that is a problem it will show up as needing a lot of scope adjustment to be on target. Mike | |||
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SuperSpeed, Thanks for the help! JPK Free 500grains | |||
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JPK, I should have mentioned this earlier but there is not much you can do about the above. That is grinding actions/mounts etc. What you are doing is making sure that the recoil lugs are square with the bases recoil stops AND then by lapping of the rings or bedding the scope to the rings this in turn means that the actual mounting of the scope does not change (or attempt to change) that situation. Lapping or bedding the scope also takes care of the problem where the front and rear bases are not at the correct height. Mike | |||
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Thanks for the advice guys. I would like to look further into the Pachmayr Lo-Swing mounts, if they can be found. Anyone know a vendor out there that is selling these? "I envy not him that eats better meat than I do; nor him that is richer, or that wears better clothes than I do; I envy him, and him only, that kills bigger deer than I do." Izaak Walton (modified) | |||
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